Too much ice

#5,683
#5,683
Vol423 said:
We should adopt some of Singapore's law enforcement practices. That would shut down the looney leftists' riots and temper tantrums.

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U.S. teen caned in Singapore - UPI Archives

American teenager Michael Fay, imprisoned in Singapore for vandalizing cars, was flogged Thursday with four strokes of a bamboo cane, a controversial...
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Probably should have been flogged by their laws. If my son were there vandalizing cars in a country he was a guest, if they didn't I would.
 
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#5,689
#5,689
LouderVol said:
thats why I have tried to get eastern to explain what he means by "far right" outside of "Nazi".
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When did you do that?
LouderVol said:
that feels like using the word you are defining in the defintion, its lazy and doesn't actually describe the word. he has refused to engage in a meaningful conversation to actually explain his stance beyond "I was told X 20+ years ago by a biased source". even his own articles haven't backed up what his argument actually is.
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It's politics and economics so all sources are to some extent biased. Nice characterization, I said it was covered in my coursework at UT.
LouderVol said:
as I pointed out there are multiple parts to a political ideology to any political entity. you can break down the parts/policies of that entity to really examine if they are left or right. as I pointed out with the Nazis most parts/policies are far left, not far right.

when you get to "autocracy" the relevant noun/adjective would be "authoritarianism" and not "far right". compared to "autocracy" there is no "political control" difference in a far right authoritarian and a far left authoritarian. both are authoritarians. in fact autocracy can be a form of authoritarianism. when you look at an authoritarian, or most autocrats, that is a far left form of control, where as anarchy would be the far right example.
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How is anarchy authoritarian?
LouderVol said:
as I pointed out to eastern the level of simplification he is doing, and its a common practice, completely hides the truth. the fact that the nazis and the communists fought doesn't mean they are diametrically opposed. communists fight communists, fascists fought fascists, democracies fight democracies.
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Nice job of knocking down your own straw man. When Hitler got power he banned socialists among others from the civil service. That doesn't sound like the action someone with remotely socialist tendencies. As mentioned a couple of times already, the Nazis and major industrialists (capitalists) cooperated before and throughout Hitler's reign. The government leaned far more capitalist (right) than socialist (left).
 
#5,690
#5,690
LouderVol said:
a corporate state would be the far right version, which is what you have been claiming the nazis are. where as a completely state owned economy would be far left. the only ones with any control were the Nazis, the capitalists were just allowed to work for them. that is a major distinction you seem incapable of even acknowledging.

who had the power, the Nazis, or the industrialists? The Nazis. Nazis set the quotas, they controlled who got the jobs. they controlled who was in power. they controlled which companies made what. they controlled what workforce they used. they controlled their imports and exports. that is far more left than right.

as I keep pointing out the only thing the Nazis were right of were straight up communists.

and when you said the capitalist kept their capital, only some kept their capital. the Nazis kept their capital. everyone else lost theirs. Hitler always made it clear the party came before an individual's right to own. yes that wasn't the communist outright ban on private property, but it wasn't even an American level of private property, which puts it on the left side of the spectrum.
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Just as there's never been a pure communist state in modern times, there's never been a pure fascist one. The Axis in WWII were as close as there has been.
 
#5,691
#5,691
LouderVol said:
he can't even define what he actually means by "right/rightist/far right". or really express an understanding of what is actually considered "right" vs "left"

according to him the USSR would be a far right ideology because a few oligarchs at the top kept their property and profits. its lazy and flat out wrong.
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WTF are you on about and who are you to be putting words in anyone's mouth?
 
#5,694
#5,694
Orange_Crush said:
My point about your argument. It's basically an appeal to dogmatic opinion in the face of counter evidence and testimony from contemporaries. Which is that the gov't had complete control of the economy, production, and property.
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It's the consensus definition and has been as long as I remember. Fascists are extreme right and communists are extreme left.
 
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#5,697
#5,697
EasternVol said:
...

Nice job of knocking down your own straw man. When Hitler got power he banned socialists among others from the civil service. That doesn't sound like the action someone with remotely socialist tendencies. ...
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lol It actually does.

Your logic would make Communism/Marxism right-wing.

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Again, it was a centralized, gov't-controlled economy, with gov't-controlled production, prices and wages.
 
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