To Protect and to Serve II

#11,826
#11,826
VolStrom said:
Sounds like either the law or police training needs to be changed then. When someone moves and a cop(s) unload their weapons into a person without a weapon, something is wrong in the training. It would be one thing if cops were being killed in standoffs, but it's the citizens on the other side of the guns that seem to die most of the time.
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If someone says “I have a gun and I’m going to shoot you” and acts like it, that is more than enough justification to defend yourself from said threat.
 
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#11,827
#11,827
Carl Pickens said:
I get your point, but one thing he said makes a ton of sense. I have a good friend who’s ex was having an affair.... she got caught.... got a restraining order.... and this guy is not a violent person at all.... several weeks go by.... she asks him to come back home.... he does for a couple of months..... well... she was still seeing the other guy and my friend.... in front of some other people grabbed her phone away from her.... she calls the cops... he gets arrested and prosecuted. She broke the terms of the restraining order just as much as he did, but came out of it unscathed. My friend went through hell
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I hate the Domestic Violence laws now. It puts cops in a really bad moral position. If someone mutters "I was in fear for my life" an arrest is happening. And plenty of women and some men know this magic term and use it with ease. If I didn't make an arrest then I was going to be up **** creek myself with the department and liability issues. I arrested quite a few guys that I was certain were innocent and I pretty much let them know I was not going to pursue their charge in court. Your buddy definitely should've kept his distance from that crazy, but I am sympathetic to the situation. Relationships make the most rational people completely wacko.
 
#11,828
#11,828
Rickyvol77 said:
If someone says “I have a gun and I’m going to shoot you” and acts like it, that is more than enough justification to defend yourself from said threat.
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Isn't that what the police do when 4 of them are pointing a gun at an unarmed man and they all unload their weapons without him firing a shot from a weapon he doesn't have?
 
#11,829
#11,829
VolStrom said:
Isn't that what the police do when 4 of them are pointing a gun at an unarmed man and they all unload their weapons without him firing a shot from a weapon he doesn't have?
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Are they supposed to be psychic and know the guy who says “I have a gun and I’m about to shoot you” and pulls his hand up fast as if he does doesn’t have one?
 
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#11,830
#11,830
Rickyvol77 said:
Are they supposed to be psychic and know the guy who says “I have a gun and I’m about to shoot you” and pulls his hand up fast as if he does doesn’t have one?
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Not calling out that particular poster, but everyone is certain they can make extremely difficult, split-second decisions during an altercation. We both are aware of how difficult that is in reality. Luckily I never made the call to shoot, although I was very close a few times.
 
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#11,831
#11,831
Rickyvol77 said:
Are they supposed to be psychic and know the guy who says “I have a gun and I’m about to shoot you” and pulls his hand up fast as if he does doesn’t have one?
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So is the guy that got shot supposed to take down 4 people? How long does it take a person to pull a gun, level it and aim when 4 other guns are already pointed at him.? Sorry, but I don't buy your song and dance especially when they never saw a gun and 4 guys just start shooting.
 
#11,832
#11,832
VolStrom said:
So is the guy that got shot supposed to take down 4 people? How long does it take a person to pull a gun, level it and aim when 4 other guns are already pointed at him.? Sorry, but I don't buy your song and dance especially when they never saw a gun and 4 guys just start shooting.
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The point is to end the threat before he shoots 1 innocent person. There are plenty of training videos out there of officers (and others) getting shot in similar scenarios. Bad guys don’t have to “aim” to kill someone as recently shown in Knoxville
 
#11,833
#11,833
Rickyvol77 said:
I liked that YOU said it was a fair response. Bar fights with mutual combatants are different than domestic violence
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An off duty cops punches another in a bar fight. gets no jail time. Good call.

A couple engaged in an argument and the guy snatches a phone out of the woman's hand. Worthy of cop being sanctimonious about domestic violence and virtue signaling about me downplaying the matter.

Maybe the boyfriend should have gotten drunk and punched his girlfriend instead of snatching her phone.
 
#11,834
#11,834
Rasputin_Vol said:
An off duty cops punches another in a bar fight. gets no jail time. Good call.

A couple engaged in an argument and the guy snatches a phone out of the woman's hand. Worthy of cop being sanctimonious about domestic violence and virtue signaling about me downplaying the matter.

Maybe the boyfriend should have gotten drunk and punched his girlfriend instead of snatching her phone.
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Again totality of circumstances. He had previously been involved in domestic fights with her. Had an active order of protection. And grabbed her property physically out of her hand during ANOTHER fight. Don’t think it’s virtue signaling that your friend has anger issues and clearly broke the law over and over. Are you saying you think it’s normal couple behavior to grab your wife’s phone from her hand in anger?
 
#11,835
#11,835
VolStrom said:
So is the guy that got shot supposed to take down 4 people? How long does it take a person to pull a gun, level it and aim when 4 other guns are already pointed at him.? Sorry, but I don't buy your song and dance especially when they never saw a gun and 4 guys just start shooting.
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What does taking down 4 guys have to do with it? Do you want to hesitate and be the 1 cop he actually does shoot? It only takes a split second to point shoot. He can get off the 1 shot before anyone reacts and now you're dead.
 
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#11,836
#11,836
VolStrom said:
Sounds like either the law or police training needs to be changed then. When someone moves and a cop(s) unload their weapons into a person without a weapon, something is wrong in the training. It would be one thing if cops were being killed in standoffs, but it's the citizens on the other side of the guns that seem to die most of the time.
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You think that if more cops died it would justify shootings? The fact that fewer cops die is a testament to proper training. Imagine yourself making policies for rules of engagement and use your logic. Just doesn’t make sense.
 
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#11,837
#11,837
Ttucke11 said:
What does taking down 4 guys have to do with it? Do you want to hesitate and be the 1 cop he actually does shoot? It only takes a split second to point shoot. He can get off the 1 shot before anyone reacts and now you're dead.
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Show me where that has happened when 4 cops were aiming at a person and he pulls a guns and kills one of the 4?
 
#11,838
#11,838
This misses the entire big picture. Police don't need to be getting involved in far too many of these domestic disputes. Especially when the person calling the cops is in violation of the protective order that she initiated. Cops got better things to be doing than this.
 
#11,839
#11,839
VolStrom said:
Show me where that has happened when 4 cops were aiming at a person and he pulls a guns and kills one of the 4?
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I'm not going down this rabbit hole with you. If you don't see the logic in that, especially by putting yourself in the scenario, then you obviously have zero regard for you or your co-workers life.
 
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#11,840
#11,840
tim said:
You think that if more cops died it would justify shootings? The fact that fewer cops die is a testament to proper training. Imagine yourself making policies for rules of engagement and use your logic. Just doesn’t make sense.
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It's the fact that police shoot first and ask questions later. The militarization of the police is the reason for the riots and the unrest we see in the country today.
 
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#11,841
#11,841
VolStrom said:
It's the fact that police shoot first and ask questions later. The militarization of the police is the reason for the riots and the unrest we see in the country today.
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No actually its not. If it were the true numbers of shootings would bear those facts. Truth of the matter is we have a uninformed population and a media that pushes a false narrative. Go look for yourself and before you act crazy I will agree that even 1 bad shooting is horrendous.
 
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#11,842
#11,842
VolStrom said:
It's the fact that police shoot first and ask questions later. The militarization of the police is the reason for the riots and the unrest we see in the country today.
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I know you hate the police, but you know this isn't true. They rioted over shooting a black dude chasing them with a knife in Philly. Hell, in Gallatin, TN a few years back they blocked the entrance to the hospital after the woman with an axe hit the cop in the stomach. He didn't even shoot her, they blocked the entrance protesting against a dude who literally got hit with a medieval axe. Then a responding officer ended up shooting her after she chased him to his car. The unrest is caused by willful ignorance and the fans being flamed by the media. Period.
 
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#11,844
#11,844
Ttucke11 said:
I know you hate the police, but you know this isn't true. They rioted over shooting a black dude chasing them with a knife in Philly. Hell, in Gallatin, TN a few years back they blocked the entrance to the hospital after the woman with an axe hit the cop in the stomach. He didn't even shoot her, they blocked the entrance protesting against a dude who literally got hit with a medieval axe. Then a responding officer ended up shooting her after she chased him to his car. The unrest is caused by willful ignorance and the fans being flamed by the media. Period.
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Yeah the cops never do anything wrong. Ever. Give a break with that garbage.
 
#11,846
#11,846
Rasputin_Vol said:
This misses the entire big picture. Police don't need to be getting involved in far too many of these domestic disputes. Especially when the person calling the cops is in violation of the protective order that she initiated. Cops got better things to be doing than this.
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He was breaking the law and being violent. That’s literally an officer’s job
 
#11,847
#11,847
Ttucke11 said:
I know you hate the police, but you know this isn't true. They rioted over shooting a black dude chasing them with a knife in Philly. Hell, in Gallatin, TN a few years back they blocked the entrance to the hospital after the woman with an axe hit the cop in the stomach. He didn't even shoot her, they blocked the entrance protesting against a dude who literally got hit with a medieval axe. Then a responding officer ended up shooting her after she chased him to his car. The unrest is caused by willful ignorance and the fans being flamed by the media. Period.
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This times 1000%
 
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