To Protect and to Serve II

#11,826
#11,826
Rickyvol77 said:
Since he didnt get her to take the steps of rescinding the order, he is an idiot for moving back there., and then physically grabbed her phone during a domestic argument? Sounds like he deserved what he got.

But there are several instances of women breaking their own restraining order and getting arrested for it, i've done it at least a dozen times myself in my former life.
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:clutches pearls:
 
#11,828
#11,828
Rickyvol77 said:
The fact you think that physically grabbing someone else's property out of their hand during an argument, let alone during a DOMESTIC situation where you already have an order of protection for similar abusive behavior, says a lot.
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Not saying it is right, but it is a rather mild. They were having an argument. That is pretty tame, certainly not worthy of getting shot by the cops.
 
#11,829
#11,829
Rickyvol77 said:
The fact you think that physically grabbing someone else's property out of their hand during an argument, let alone during a DOMESTIC situation where you already have an order of protection for similar abusive behavior, says a lot.
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You gave this comment a "like" when the cop punched another guy and I said no charges. But let a guy snatch a phone out of someone's hands and now all hell breaks loose.

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#11,832
#11,832
Rickyvol77 said:
I liked that YOU said it was a fair response. Bar fights with mutual combatants are different than domestic violence
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You seem like a mostly level headed person, but you way too often side with the police when someone gets blown away by them because they moved their arm too quickly with nothing in it.
 
#11,833
#11,833
VolStrom said:
You seem like a mostly level headed person, but you way too often side with the police when someone gets blown away by them because they moved their arm too quickly with nothing in it.
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It's not "siding with the police", as i would be the first to call out truly illegal police behavior (like Walter Scott for example) .
Mainly because i understand police training, the law, and that the actions of the criminal dictated what happened....totality of circumstances.

Graham vs Connor, Tennessee vs. Garner, etc. These rulings are pretty self-evident and easy to follow
 
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#11,834
#11,834
Rickyvol77 said:
It's not "siding with the police", as i would be the first to call out truly illegal police behavior (like Walter Scott for example) .
Mainly because i understand police training, the law, and that the actions of the criminal dictated what happened....totality of circumstances.

Graham vs Connor, Tennessee vs. Garner, etc. These rulings are pretty self-evident and easy to follow
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Sounds like either the law or police training needs to be changed then. When someone moves and a cop(s) unload their weapons into a person without a weapon, something is wrong in the training. It would be one thing if cops were being killed in standoffs, but it's the citizens on the other side of the guns that seem to die most of the time.
 
#11,835
#11,835
VolStrom said:
Sounds like either the law or police training needs to be changed then. When someone moves and a cop(s) unload their weapons into a person without a weapon, something is wrong in the training. It would be one thing if cops were being killed in standoffs, but it's the citizens on the other side of the guns that seem to die most of the time.
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If someone says “I have a gun and I’m going to shoot you” and acts like it, that is more than enough justification to defend yourself from said threat.
 
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#11,836
#11,836
Carl Pickens said:
I get your point, but one thing he said makes a ton of sense. I have a good friend who’s ex was having an affair.... she got caught.... got a restraining order.... and this guy is not a violent person at all.... several weeks go by.... she asks him to come back home.... he does for a couple of months..... well... she was still seeing the other guy and my friend.... in front of some other people grabbed her phone away from her.... she calls the cops... he gets arrested and prosecuted. She broke the terms of the restraining order just as much as he did, but came out of it unscathed. My friend went through hell
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I hate the Domestic Violence laws now. It puts cops in a really bad moral position. If someone mutters "I was in fear for my life" an arrest is happening. And plenty of women and some men know this magic term and use it with ease. If I didn't make an arrest then I was going to be up **** creek myself with the department and liability issues. I arrested quite a few guys that I was certain were innocent and I pretty much let them know I was not going to pursue their charge in court. Your buddy definitely should've kept his distance from that crazy, but I am sympathetic to the situation. Relationships make the most rational people completely wacko.
 
#11,837
#11,837
Rickyvol77 said:
If someone says “I have a gun and I’m going to shoot you” and acts like it, that is more than enough justification to defend yourself from said threat.
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Isn't that what the police do when 4 of them are pointing a gun at an unarmed man and they all unload their weapons without him firing a shot from a weapon he doesn't have?
 
#11,838
#11,838
VolStrom said:
Isn't that what the police do when 4 of them are pointing a gun at an unarmed man and they all unload their weapons without him firing a shot from a weapon he doesn't have?
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Are they supposed to be psychic and know the guy who says “I have a gun and I’m about to shoot you” and pulls his hand up fast as if he does doesn’t have one?
 
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#11,839
#11,839
Rickyvol77 said:
Are they supposed to be psychic and know the guy who says “I have a gun and I’m about to shoot you” and pulls his hand up fast as if he does doesn’t have one?
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Not calling out that particular poster, but everyone is certain they can make extremely difficult, split-second decisions during an altercation. We both are aware of how difficult that is in reality. Luckily I never made the call to shoot, although I was very close a few times.
 
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#11,840
#11,840
Rickyvol77 said:
Are they supposed to be psychic and know the guy who says “I have a gun and I’m about to shoot you” and pulls his hand up fast as if he does doesn’t have one?
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So is the guy that got shot supposed to take down 4 people? How long does it take a person to pull a gun, level it and aim when 4 other guns are already pointed at him.? Sorry, but I don't buy your song and dance especially when they never saw a gun and 4 guys just start shooting.
 
#11,841
#11,841
VolStrom said:
So is the guy that got shot supposed to take down 4 people? How long does it take a person to pull a gun, level it and aim when 4 other guns are already pointed at him.? Sorry, but I don't buy your song and dance especially when they never saw a gun and 4 guys just start shooting.
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The point is to end the threat before he shoots 1 innocent person. There are plenty of training videos out there of officers (and others) getting shot in similar scenarios. Bad guys don’t have to “aim” to kill someone as recently shown in Knoxville
 
#11,842
#11,842
Rickyvol77 said:
I liked that YOU said it was a fair response. Bar fights with mutual combatants are different than domestic violence
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An off duty cops punches another in a bar fight. gets no jail time. Good call.

A couple engaged in an argument and the guy snatches a phone out of the woman's hand. Worthy of cop being sanctimonious about domestic violence and virtue signaling about me downplaying the matter.

Maybe the boyfriend should have gotten drunk and punched his girlfriend instead of snatching her phone.
 
#11,843
#11,843
Rasputin_Vol said:
An off duty cops punches another in a bar fight. gets no jail time. Good call.

A couple engaged in an argument and the guy snatches a phone out of the woman's hand. Worthy of cop being sanctimonious about domestic violence and virtue signaling about me downplaying the matter.

Maybe the boyfriend should have gotten drunk and punched his girlfriend instead of snatching her phone.
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Again totality of circumstances. He had previously been involved in domestic fights with her. Had an active order of protection. And grabbed her property physically out of her hand during ANOTHER fight. Don’t think it’s virtue signaling that your friend has anger issues and clearly broke the law over and over. Are you saying you think it’s normal couple behavior to grab your wife’s phone from her hand in anger?
 
#11,844
#11,844
VolStrom said:
So is the guy that got shot supposed to take down 4 people? How long does it take a person to pull a gun, level it and aim when 4 other guns are already pointed at him.? Sorry, but I don't buy your song and dance especially when they never saw a gun and 4 guys just start shooting.
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What does taking down 4 guys have to do with it? Do you want to hesitate and be the 1 cop he actually does shoot? It only takes a split second to point shoot. He can get off the 1 shot before anyone reacts and now you're dead.
 
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#11,845
#11,845
VolStrom said:
Sounds like either the law or police training needs to be changed then. When someone moves and a cop(s) unload their weapons into a person without a weapon, something is wrong in the training. It would be one thing if cops were being killed in standoffs, but it's the citizens on the other side of the guns that seem to die most of the time.
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You think that if more cops died it would justify shootings? The fact that fewer cops die is a testament to proper training. Imagine yourself making policies for rules of engagement and use your logic. Just doesn’t make sense.
 
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#11,846
#11,846
Ttucke11 said:
What does taking down 4 guys have to do with it? Do you want to hesitate and be the 1 cop he actually does shoot? It only takes a split second to point shoot. He can get off the 1 shot before anyone reacts and now you're dead.
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Show me where that has happened when 4 cops were aiming at a person and he pulls a guns and kills one of the 4?
 
#11,847
#11,847
This misses the entire big picture. Police don't need to be getting involved in far too many of these domestic disputes. Especially when the person calling the cops is in violation of the protective order that she initiated. Cops got better things to be doing than this.
 
#11,848
#11,848
VolStrom said:
Show me where that has happened when 4 cops were aiming at a person and he pulls a guns and kills one of the 4?
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I'm not going down this rabbit hole with you. If you don't see the logic in that, especially by putting yourself in the scenario, then you obviously have zero regard for you or your co-workers life.
 
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#11,849
#11,849
tim said:
You think that if more cops died it would justify shootings? The fact that fewer cops die is a testament to proper training. Imagine yourself making policies for rules of engagement and use your logic. Just doesn’t make sense.
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It's the fact that police shoot first and ask questions later. The militarization of the police is the reason for the riots and the unrest we see in the country today.
 
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#11,850
#11,850
VolStrom said:
It's the fact that police shoot first and ask questions later. The militarization of the police is the reason for the riots and the unrest we see in the country today.
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No actually its not. If it were the true numbers of shootings would bear those facts. Truth of the matter is we have a uninformed population and a media that pushes a false narrative. Go look for yourself and before you act crazy I will agree that even 1 bad shooting is horrendous.
 
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