To Protect and to Serve II

#11,251
#11,251
Rasputin_Vol said:
You don't see an issue with police getting involved in something as petty as a guest being nude or not? Or wearing a mask or not?

I understand what you are saying about being able to have rules on your property. I'm just saying that having the police come in and insert themselves in these petty house rules is nonsense. I'm surprised that you can't see the simplicity in my argument. You don't need to be the mask police or the nude guess police or the "this guy won't leave the house after I invited him for drinks and reefer" police. Unless someone is being physically threatened or injured or property is being damaged, the police should practice a bit of discreation inserting themselves in petty azz rules.

Police should be going after killers and thieves.
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People have a right to protect their property. If someone comes up and refuses to leave it for any reason after being asked, it is acceptable to remove them via arrest. You or anyone else have no right to go onto others property when asked to leave. Period.
 
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#11,252
#11,252
Rickyvol77 said:
I call Bs. You can be selective and give warnings all day long without arresting someone but when a moron goes on someone else’s property and refuses to leave when asked for any reason that is on them and they deserve to be arrested
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So you just follow the letter of the law. Your brain cells and common sense are turned off. A cop put in that position should have never put hands on someone for not wearing a damn mask. That is just buffoonsish and tyrannical.
 
#11,253
#11,253
Rasputin_Vol said:
So you just follow the letter of the law. Your brain cells and common sense are turned off. A cop put in that position should have never put hands on someone for not wearing a damn mask. That is just buffoonsish and tyrannical.
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Again the mask is not the actual issue. She was on someone else’s property and was told to leave and she refused several times Go try to take a bath at 7pm at your kids school or wear a nazi t shirt at church and don’t leave or go smoke in the middle of a hospital lobby. You’ll be arrested everytime and rightly so if you refuse to leave. You have no right to do anything on someone else’s property anymore than a homeless guy has the right to come up on your porch and squat and take a sh**
 
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#11,254
#11,254
Rickyvol77 said:
People have a right to protect their property. If someone comes up and refuses to leave it for any reason after being asked, it is acceptable to remove them via arrest. You or anyone else have no right to go onto others property when asked to leave. Period.
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I'm not arguing against property rights. I am arguing for common sense and discretion.

As a property owner myself, I am fully aware of and guarded about who I invite to my home... and aware of the consequences of engaging in certain activities at my home (alcohol, gambling, partying, etc.). So if someone comes to my house and is belligerent after having one too many... well stop... back up for a minute. I am not going to knowing invite an angry drunk to my home... or an gambler that is a sore loser to a poker game... or whatever. And plus, if I have people over that are going to drink, in the back of my mind, I have to be aware or come to terms with the idea that maybe someone will spill a drink on the floor or on furniture. Or that someone that I invited may surprise me and get out of hand or have a guest that I do not know get out of hand. These are all things a responsible homeowner should be aware of going in to these situations. I am not condoning guests spilling drinks or whatever, I'm just saying that you have to expect it to happen, and not be ready to bum's rush a person out or call the cops at the first sign of trouble.

Having said that, this school did not have the same level of decency or expectations from the general public that I would have for guests that I invite to my home. That school should have been more than willing to expect certain people to not wear masks. Instead of being a guest with some level of common sense and decency, they chose to be authoritarians. And really, I am criticizing the school for not exercising common sense about how they handled this, when the truth is, they showed that they didn't have common sense by even coming up with a stupid azz mask mandate in an outdoor stadium.
 
#11,255
#11,255
Rickyvol77 said:
Again the mask is not the actual issue. She was on someone else’s property and was told to leave and she refused several times Go try to take a bath at 7pm at your kids school or wear a nazi t shirt at church and don’t leave or go smoke in the middle of a hospital lobby. You’ll be arrested everytime and rightly so if you refuse to leave. You have no right to do anything on someone else’s property anymore than a homeless guy has the right to come up on your porch and squat and take a sh**
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If I call the police to my home, and I have a house guest that is not wearing a mask after I made it clear that those were the rules in my home, do you think the police are obligated to and enforce an edict that I made with regards to my property? Maybe obligated isn't the best term... maybe is that a good use of police time and resources?
 
#11,256
#11,256
Rickyvol77 said:
Again the mask is not the actual issue. She was on someone else’s property and was told to leave and she refused several times Go try to take a bath at 7pm at your kids school or wear a nazi t shirt at church and don’t leave or go smoke in the middle of a hospital lobby. You’ll be arrested everytime and rightly so if you refuse to leave. You have no right to do anything on someone else’s property anymore than a homeless guy has the right to come up on your porch and squat and take a sh**
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Discretion
 
#11,257
#11,257
Rasputin_Vol said:
If I call the police to my home, and I have a house guest that is not wearing a mask after I made it clear that those were the rules in my home, do you think the police are obligated to and enforce an edict that I made with regards to my property? Maybe obligated isn't the best term... maybe is that a good use of police time and resources?
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they might ask why you have this guest as a friend
 
#11,258
#11,258
VolStrom said:
Just as a follow up, if I have a rule that anyone that comes on my property if required to be naked, are you going to enforce that "rule"?
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Yes. If the refuse to get naked and refuse to leave because of it the police should absolutely remove them if you instruct them too.
 
#11,259
#11,259
Rasputin_Vol said:
You don't see an issue with police getting involved in something as petty as a guest being nude or not? Or wearing a mask or not?

I understand what you are saying about being able to have rules on your property. I'm just saying that having the police come in and insert themselves in these petty house rules is nonsense. I'm surprised that you can't see the simplicity in my argument. You don't need to be the mask police or the nude guess police or the "this guy won't leave the house after I invited him for drinks and reefer" police. Unless someone is being physically threatened or injured or property is being damaged, the police should practice a bit of discreation inserting themselves in petty azz rules.

Police should be going after killers and thieves.
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I generally agree with you on the police issues but in this case if an owner says you have to do something to be there then it’s within their rights to ask you to leave. If you don’t leave then the police should remove you.

This isn’t the police inserting themselves. They’re called by the owner
 
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#11,260
#11,260
Rasputin_Vol said:
If I call the police to my home, and I have a house guest that is not wearing a mask after I made it clear that those were the rules in my home, do you think the police are obligated to and enforce an edict that I made with regards to my property? Maybe obligated isn't the best term... maybe is that a good use of police time and resources?
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If you ask them to leave for any reason at all and they don’t go then the police will remove them. As they should
 
#11,261
#11,261
Rickyvol77 said:
No matter how stupid you think a rule may be you don’t have a choice on other people’s property to do what you want to
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Correct, other people’s property. Government property is our (the taxpayers) property. It’s mine, yours and everyone else that pays their taxes.
 
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#11,262
#11,262
Rickyvol77 said:
No but if you ask the police to remove someone who refuses toget naked and refuses to leave when you asked, they can be arrested. Not hard to get
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I'm really surprised you answered that. You can't be serious. I assume that you would go as far as to tase and handcuff them if the stated rule in not enforced, correct?

Are you able to step away for a moment and think about how silly that is? As a cop, I would think that you guys would want to remove yourselves from as many of these trivial and nonsensical calls as possible. If no one is being molested are harmed in any way or if property isn't being harmed or damaged in any way, why should the police be involved? Or why should they involve themselves?

Don't police have bigger fish to fry than random private (or public) property rules enforcement?
 
#11,263
#11,263
hog88 said:
Correct, other people’s property. Government property is our (the taxpayers) property. It’s mine, yours and everyone else that pays their taxes.
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In the case of the school’s we the people appointed people to be in charge of that property. If the person we appointed tells you to leave and you don’t then the police will assist you.

instead of fighting the police maybe we should work to alter the people we appointed to be in charge of the property.
 
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#11,265
#11,265
Orangeslice13 said:
I generally agree with you on the police issues but in this case if an owner says you have to do something to be there then it’s within their rights to ask you to leave. If you don’t leave then the police should remove you.

This isn’t the police inserting themselves. They’re called by the owner
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There is a time and place for everything. Is this really a matter to bring in the police and tasers?

There are degrees to this. If someone is being violent or destructive, I don't think many people would disagree that police action is necessary.

But now when you get to this lower level stuff, some level of discretion and discernment need to be applied. If we truly do have police plugging themselves in to every domestic disturbance or disagreement or arbitrary rules enforcement, then no wonder cops claim to be overworked and we can't go after real criminals.
 
#11,266
#11,266
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm really surprised you answered that. You can't be serious. I assume that you would go as far as to tase and handcuff them if the stated rule in not enforced, correct?

Are you able to step away for a moment and think about how silly that is? As a cop, I would think that you guys would want to remove yourselves from as many of these trivial and nonsensical calls as possible. If no one is being molested are harmed in any way or if property isn't being harmed or damaged in any way, why should the police be involved? Or why should they involve themselves?

Don't police have bigger fish to fry than random private (or public) property rules enforcement?
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You’re playing word semantics. They are not being tased and handcuffed for “not following rules”. They are refusing to leave property when asked by the owner or their agent. This they are Trespassing. Just like if an Antifa druggie sat in your front yard naked *****ing and decided to set up a tent there to live. You have no right to be somewhere that’s not your property if the owner asks you to leave.
 
#11,267
#11,267
Rasputin_Vol said:
There is a time and place for everything. Is this really a matter to bring in the police and tasers?

There are degrees to this. If someone is being violent or destructive, I don't think many people would disagree that police action is necessary.

But now when you get to this lower level stuff, some level of discretion and discernment need to be applied. If we truly do have police plugging themselves in to every domestic disturbance or disagreement or arbitrary rules enforcement, then no wonder cops claim to be overworked and we can't go after real criminals.
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At our hospital this year our security team have arrested 10 people for refusing to leave property when asked whether bc of the masks or smoking on refusing to abide by the visitation policies. And one got tased. Because they tried to attack the officers. It’s amazing how little people don’t understand property rights
 
#11,269
#11,269
Rasputin_Vol said:
There is a time and place for everything. Is this really a matter to bring in the police and tasers?

There are degrees to this. If someone is being violent or destructive, I don't think many people would disagree that police action is necessary.

But now when you get to this lower level stuff, some level of discretion and discernment need to be applied. If we truly do have police plugging themselves in to every domestic disturbance or disagreement or arbitrary rules enforcement, then no wonder cops claim to be overworked and we can't go after real criminals.
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And police aren’t “plugging” themselves in. They are called by property owners to Remove people from their property
 
#11,271
#11,271
Orangeslice13 said:
In the case of the school’s we the people appointed people to be in charge of that property. If the person we appointed tells you to leave and you don’t then the police will assist you.

instead of fighting the police maybe we should work to alter the people we appointed to be in charge of the property.
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Agreed. It just baffles me that people think the “government” owns property and we the taxpayers have no say.
 
#11,272
#11,272
Rasputin_Vol said:
There is a time and place for everything. Is this really a matter to bring in the police and tasers?

There are degrees to this. If someone is being violent or destructive, I don't think many people would disagree that police action is necessary.

But now when you get to this lower level stuff, some level of discretion and discernment need to be applied. If we truly do have police plugging themselves in to every domestic disturbance or disagreement or arbitrary rules enforcement, then no wonder cops claim to be overworked and we can't go after real criminals.
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In those cases the blame falls on unreasonable people who refuse to leave.

I went to dinner yesterday. The people in front of me were told they couldn’t come in without a mask. The guy said he had a breathing condition and could not wear one. The girl at the desk said “sorry, it’s not my policy but I cannot change it” the guy said “no problem, I’ll go somewhere else “.

That’s how reasonable people behave.
Unreasonable people refuse to leave and get the police called
 
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#11,273
#11,273
hog88 said:
Agreed. It just baffles me that people think the “government” owns property and we the taxpayers have no say.
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I’m in the other camp.
I have a say. It may not ever change but........
I’m currently fighting the powers that be.
I email Redbank city hall every day over their BS city wide 25 mph speed limit. If I get caught speeding I’m not arguing with the cop that speed limit is stupid.
 
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#11,274
#11,274
hog88 said:
Agreed. It just baffles me that people think the “government” owns property and we the taxpayers have no say.
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Lol if you believe you “own” that property go plop yourself in an elementary school without a shirt on and light up a smoke and refuse to leave. Or go take a police car or fire truck out for a spin. You have no clue
 
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