To Protect and to Serve II

#11,251
#11,251
Rasputin_Vol said:
You don't see an issue with police getting involved in something as petty as a guest being nude or not? Or wearing a mask or not?

I understand what you are saying about being able to have rules on your property. I'm just saying that having the police come in and insert themselves in these petty house rules is nonsense. I'm surprised that you can't see the simplicity in my argument. You don't need to be the mask police or the nude guess police or the "this guy won't leave the house after I invited him for drinks and reefer" police. Unless someone is being physically threatened or injured or property is being damaged, the police should practice a bit of discreation inserting themselves in petty azz rules.

Police should be going after killers and thieves.
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I generally agree with you on the police issues but in this case if an owner says you have to do something to be there then it’s within their rights to ask you to leave. If you don’t leave then the police should remove you.

This isn’t the police inserting themselves. They’re called by the owner
 
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#11,252
#11,252
Rasputin_Vol said:
If I call the police to my home, and I have a house guest that is not wearing a mask after I made it clear that those were the rules in my home, do you think the police are obligated to and enforce an edict that I made with regards to my property? Maybe obligated isn't the best term... maybe is that a good use of police time and resources?
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If you ask them to leave for any reason at all and they don’t go then the police will remove them. As they should
 
#11,253
#11,253
Rickyvol77 said:
No matter how stupid you think a rule may be you don’t have a choice on other people’s property to do what you want to
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Correct, other people’s property. Government property is our (the taxpayers) property. It’s mine, yours and everyone else that pays their taxes.
 
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#11,254
#11,254
Rickyvol77 said:
No but if you ask the police to remove someone who refuses toget naked and refuses to leave when you asked, they can be arrested. Not hard to get
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I'm really surprised you answered that. You can't be serious. I assume that you would go as far as to tase and handcuff them if the stated rule in not enforced, correct?

Are you able to step away for a moment and think about how silly that is? As a cop, I would think that you guys would want to remove yourselves from as many of these trivial and nonsensical calls as possible. If no one is being molested are harmed in any way or if property isn't being harmed or damaged in any way, why should the police be involved? Or why should they involve themselves?

Don't police have bigger fish to fry than random private (or public) property rules enforcement?
 
#11,255
#11,255
hog88 said:
Correct, other people’s property. Government property is our (the taxpayers) property. It’s mine, yours and everyone else that pays their taxes.
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In the case of the school’s we the people appointed people to be in charge of that property. If the person we appointed tells you to leave and you don’t then the police will assist you.

instead of fighting the police maybe we should work to alter the people we appointed to be in charge of the property.
 
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#11,257
#11,257
Orangeslice13 said:
I generally agree with you on the police issues but in this case if an owner says you have to do something to be there then it’s within their rights to ask you to leave. If you don’t leave then the police should remove you.

This isn’t the police inserting themselves. They’re called by the owner
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There is a time and place for everything. Is this really a matter to bring in the police and tasers?

There are degrees to this. If someone is being violent or destructive, I don't think many people would disagree that police action is necessary.

But now when you get to this lower level stuff, some level of discretion and discernment need to be applied. If we truly do have police plugging themselves in to every domestic disturbance or disagreement or arbitrary rules enforcement, then no wonder cops claim to be overworked and we can't go after real criminals.
 
#11,258
#11,258
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm really surprised you answered that. You can't be serious. I assume that you would go as far as to tase and handcuff them if the stated rule in not enforced, correct?

Are you able to step away for a moment and think about how silly that is? As a cop, I would think that you guys would want to remove yourselves from as many of these trivial and nonsensical calls as possible. If no one is being molested are harmed in any way or if property isn't being harmed or damaged in any way, why should the police be involved? Or why should they involve themselves?

Don't police have bigger fish to fry than random private (or public) property rules enforcement?
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You’re playing word semantics. They are not being tased and handcuffed for “not following rules”. They are refusing to leave property when asked by the owner or their agent. This they are Trespassing. Just like if an Antifa druggie sat in your front yard naked *****ing and decided to set up a tent there to live. You have no right to be somewhere that’s not your property if the owner asks you to leave.
 
#11,259
#11,259
Rasputin_Vol said:
There is a time and place for everything. Is this really a matter to bring in the police and tasers?

There are degrees to this. If someone is being violent or destructive, I don't think many people would disagree that police action is necessary.

But now when you get to this lower level stuff, some level of discretion and discernment need to be applied. If we truly do have police plugging themselves in to every domestic disturbance or disagreement or arbitrary rules enforcement, then no wonder cops claim to be overworked and we can't go after real criminals.
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At our hospital this year our security team have arrested 10 people for refusing to leave property when asked whether bc of the masks or smoking on refusing to abide by the visitation policies. And one got tased. Because they tried to attack the officers. It’s amazing how little people don’t understand property rights
 
#11,261
#11,261
Rasputin_Vol said:
There is a time and place for everything. Is this really a matter to bring in the police and tasers?

There are degrees to this. If someone is being violent or destructive, I don't think many people would disagree that police action is necessary.

But now when you get to this lower level stuff, some level of discretion and discernment need to be applied. If we truly do have police plugging themselves in to every domestic disturbance or disagreement or arbitrary rules enforcement, then no wonder cops claim to be overworked and we can't go after real criminals.
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And police aren’t “plugging” themselves in. They are called by property owners to Remove people from their property
 
#11,263
#11,263
Orangeslice13 said:
In the case of the school’s we the people appointed people to be in charge of that property. If the person we appointed tells you to leave and you don’t then the police will assist you.

instead of fighting the police maybe we should work to alter the people we appointed to be in charge of the property.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It just baffles me that people think the “government” owns property and we the taxpayers have no say.
 
#11,264
#11,264
Rasputin_Vol said:
There is a time and place for everything. Is this really a matter to bring in the police and tasers?

There are degrees to this. If someone is being violent or destructive, I don't think many people would disagree that police action is necessary.

But now when you get to this lower level stuff, some level of discretion and discernment need to be applied. If we truly do have police plugging themselves in to every domestic disturbance or disagreement or arbitrary rules enforcement, then no wonder cops claim to be overworked and we can't go after real criminals.
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In those cases the blame falls on unreasonable people who refuse to leave.

I went to dinner yesterday. The people in front of me were told they couldn’t come in without a mask. The guy said he had a breathing condition and could not wear one. The girl at the desk said “sorry, it’s not my policy but I cannot change it” the guy said “no problem, I’ll go somewhere else “.

That’s how reasonable people behave.
Unreasonable people refuse to leave and get the police called
 
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#11,265
#11,265
hog88 said:
Agreed. It just baffles me that people think the “government” owns property and we the taxpayers have no say.
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I’m in the other camp.
I have a say. It may not ever change but........
I’m currently fighting the powers that be.
I email Redbank city hall every day over their BS city wide 25 mph speed limit. If I get caught speeding I’m not arguing with the cop that speed limit is stupid.
 
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#11,266
#11,266
hog88 said:
Agreed. It just baffles me that people think the “government” owns property and we the taxpayers have no say.
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Lol if you believe you “own” that property go plop yourself in an elementary school without a shirt on and light up a smoke and refuse to leave. Or go take a police car or fire truck out for a spin. You have no clue
 
#11,268
#11,268
Rickyvol77 said:
School resource officers are assigned to schools. This is part of their assignments
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So part of their assignments is to (blindly) enforce random house rules?

Maybe I'll ask you this. Are there ANY rules by a property owner that you will not insert yourself into?
 
#11,269
#11,269
Orangeslice13 said:
In those cases the blame falls on unreasonable people who refuse to leave.

I went to dinner yesterday. The people in front of me were told they couldn’t come in without a mask. The guy said he had a breathing condition and could not wear one. The girl at the desk said “sorry, it’s not my policy but I cannot change it” the guy said “no problem, I’ll go somewhere else “.

That’s how reasonable people behave.
Unreasonable people refuse to leave and get the police called
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In this situation, there are 3 sides that chose not to behave reasonably. The host, the guest and the cops. The burden of being reasonable doesn't just fall on one side here. This was a situation oozing stupidity. No pragmatism was employed. No discernment. No discretion.
 
#11,270
#11,270
Rasputin_Vol said:
The cops were called. They came. They therefore chose to insert themselves into the situation.
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They don’t insert unless the owner calls to protect themselves and their property.
If you’re asked to leave and you don’t leave.....and we don’t want the police involved.......I guess we can go Wild West and start shooting fools.
 
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#11,271
#11,271
Rasputin_Vol said:
In this situation, there are 3 sides that chose not to behave reasonably. The host, the guest and the cops. The burden of being reasonable doesn't just fall on one side here. This was a situation oozing stupidity. No pragmatism was employed. No discernment. No discretion.
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The host has no authority. The manager on the other hand......but maybe the manager doesn’t think it’s stupid, which is his right as the manager.
 
#11,272
#11,272
Orangeslice13 said:
They don’t insert unless the owner calls to protect themselves and their property.
If you’re asked to leave and you don’t leave.....and we don’t want the police involved.......I guess we can go Wild West and start shooting fools.
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Slice, would you call the cops on me for not wearing a mask in your home if I refused to?
 
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