To Protect and to Serve II

[RikidyBones]

I'll disagree, it's best to tell. However, with the added items:

Already have your seatbelt unfastened.

Already have photo ID and CCW permit out along with insurance/registration, in between fingers on left hand while on steering wheel so the officer can retrieve it.

Both hands on the wheel, look at the officer while speaking.

Don't do anything until the officer says to move.

Common sense on both sides.

Don't disarm yourself. Ever.

Let the officer do it.

 

[McDad]

"Yes sir, and thank you for telling me. For your safety and mine, just keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times, please."

What I do depends on you and my instincts, which I've learned to rely on heavily. I'll usually run your DL before I go back to my patrol car.

Thanks. Guarantee you'd have compliance from me with that verbiage and instruction.

 

[TheDeeble]

I'll disagree, it's best to tell.

The instructor in our class told us there's no need to volunteer the information. The officer can see if you have a carry permit when he runs your tags/license. If he wants to know if you're carrying he'll ask.

I can't remember where the guy that taught our class worked. He was either with Shelby Country Sheriff dept, Tipton County Sheriff dept, or state trooper.

 

[McDad]

The instructor in our class told us there's no need to volunteer the information. The officer can see if you have a carry permit when he runs your tags/license. If he wants to know if you're carrying he'll ask.

I can't remember where the guy that taught our class worked. He was either with Shelby Country Sheriff dept, Tipton County Sheriff dept, or state trooper.

That's precisely why i would voluntarily divulge. Officer will find out once they get back to their car, anyway.

Let them know you got nothing to hide.

 

[Grand Vol]

The instructor in our class told us there's no need to volunteer the information. The officer can see if you have a carry permit when he runs your tags/license. If he wants to know if you're carrying he'll ask.

I can't remember where the guy that taught our class worked. He was either with Shelby Country Sheriff dept, Tipton County Sheriff dept, or state trooper.

It's also a State by State thing. Some States you have to divulge the information. Just a good habit to get into especially with TN having a lot of reciprocity out there and if you travel to other States.

 

[McDad]

Ive encounted a couple of power-mad cops in my time.vast majority are professional, and simply doing their job.

I am not afraid of the business-like cops. But i also don't wanna give an emotionally unstable cop reason to shoot me.

 

[TheDeeble]

That's precisely why i would voluntarily divulge. Officer will find out once they get back to their car, anyway.

Let them know you got nothing to hide.

Someone asked about that very scenario. Wouldn't it put the officer at ease if you told him there's nothing in the vehicle? Made sense to me.

He said the opposite. He said it would stand out to him if someone led with "I don't have a gun in the vehicle." His opinion was he can see if you have a carry permit. If he sees that he approaches everyone the same regardless even if you tell him you don't have a gun in the vehicle. There a degree of unknown with every stop and somebody volunteering that information isn't going to make him instantly trust that they're being truthful. If he wants to know he'll ask.

Maybe he'd had an instance where someone lied. Can't remember.

 

[n_huffhines]

Dont be like that.

You're saying the victim was low risk because of what he said to the cop. That's valid.

He's saying people's actions can suddenly and dramatically change with no prior warning. Also valid.

Right but he said that in response to my post. My point is that he told him he had a gun. I am certain criminals practice deception in the form of being nice to police, but that's irrelevant to my point.

 

[hndog609]

Someone asked about that very scenario. Wouldn't it put the officer at ease if you told him there's nothing in the vehicle? Made sense to me.

He said the opposite. He said it would stand out to him if someone led with "I don't have a gun in the vehicle." His opinion was he can see if you have a carry permit. If he sees that he approaches everyone the same regardless even if you tell him you don't have a gun in the vehicle. There a degree of unknown with every stop and somebody volunteering that information isn't going to make him instantly trust that they're being truthful. If he wants to know he'll ask.

Maybe he'd had an instance where someone lied. Can't remember.

I've heard a number of anecdotal statements where people were convinced they were let off with a warning in large part by handing over their CCW with their license/insurance and answering any firearm related questions. YMMV

 

[TheDeeble]

I've heard a number of anecdotal statements where people were convinced they were let off with a warning in large part by handing over their CCW with their license/insurance and answering any firearm related questions. YMMV

I'd definitely agree with answering any questions. Refusing to answer if you have anything in the vehicle will probably set off alarms in any officer's head.

It probably varies from officer to officer as far as volunteering the info. I've been pulled over 2 times I think since I've had a carry permit and I've never said anything about it and they've never asked. But they probably approach someone they pulled over for going 8 mph over or not having your headlights on in the rain( it wasn't even raining, it quit 10 minutes earlier) different than they would someone that matches a vehicle fleeing the scene of a robbery.

 

[McDad]

Right but he said that in response to my post. My point is that he told him he had a gun. I am certain criminals practice deception in the form of being nice to police, but that's irrelevant to my point.

Perhaps i misunderstood.

Isn't your point the victim's action and replies gave absolutely no indication of threat?

 

[n_huffhines]

Perhaps i misunderstood.

Isn't your point the victim's action and replies gave absolutely no indication of threat?

He said "I have a firearm". Why would somebody tell the police this if he meant to do harm to the police? This is not a 1:1 comparison to someone being deceptively polite to police. Hence the question, "did he tell you he was going to run/fight?"

 

[n_huffhines]

http://reason.com/blog/2017/06/21/nra-tv-host-cop-who-killed-philando-cast

Good follow-up :good!:

 

[RikidyBones]

Good follow-up :good!:

In that Phliando says "I wasn't reaching for it"

Leaving it up for interpretation is the issue and why Yanez walking a free man is the correct decision.

Again let the officer disarm you, don't move unless instructed, ask to step out of the car to get your wallet, etc.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Or, we could address the elephant in the room. Stop pulling people over for petty sh*t. People have just as much right to carry a firearm as any cop does. Perhaps the better method should be the cop should leave his weapon in his patrol car before approaching a citizens vehicle. Since it's pretty clear there are cops out there who **** the bed at the sight of a gun.

About this let the cop disarm you thing, In today's market of concealment holsters, you have a plethora of options with retention devices. Cops don't generally have the best safety record out there, and that could very well be a land mine waiting to be stepped on. The cop could have in his mind the retention he feels from the holster as a tug from the citizen and with that, the ball is rolling. Point being, most cops aren't shooters, they couldn't care less about guns in their personal lives. Who are they to determine what retention device you have on your holster. Stranger things have happened. I don't personally use retention holsters, a friction fit has always worked for me.

 

[McDad]

He said "I have a firearm". Why would somebody tell the police this if he meant to do harm to the police? This is not a 1:1 comparison to someone being deceptively polite to police. Hence the question, "did he tell you he was going to run/fight?"

In his anecdote, he stated how a suspect can act radically different from one moment to the next.

 

[RikidyBones]

Or, we could address the elephant in the room. Stop pulling people over for petty sh*t. People have just as much right to carry a firearm as any cop does. Perhaps the better method should be the cop should leave his weapon in his patrol car before approaching a citizens vehicle. Since it's pretty clear there are cops out there who **** the bed at the sight of a gun.

About this let the cop disarm you thing, In today's market of concealment holsters, you have a plethora of options with retention devices. Cops don't generally have the best safety record out there, and that could very well be a land mine waiting to be stepped on. The cop could have in his mind the retention he feels from the holster as a tug from the citizen and with that, the ball is rolling. Point being, most cops aren't shooters, they couldn't care less about guns in their personal lives. Who are they to determine what retention device you have on your holster. Stranger things have happened. I don't personally use retention holsters, a friction fit has always worked for me.

I'm not sure many people use retention. Correct me if I'm wrong on that though. Usually they keep in the glove compartment, between seats, or back seat to be three moves away. I see your point though but that a simple statement away. "Hey officer my holster is a level three."

At least all the carriers I know don't use it. They use friction like you.

 

[McDad]

Or, we could address the elephant in the room. Stop pulling people over for petty sh*t. People have just as much right to carry a firearm as any cop does. Perhaps the better method should be the cop should leave his weapon in his patrol car before approaching a citizens vehicle. Since it's pretty clear there are cops out there who **** the bed at the sight of a gun.

About this let the cop disarm you thing, In today's market of concealment holsters, you have a plethora of options with retention devices. Cops don't generally have the best safety record out there, and that could very well be a land mine waiting to be stepped on. The cop could have in his mind the retention he feels from the holster as a tug from the citizen and with that, the ball is rolling. Point being, most cops aren't shooters, they couldn't care less about guns in their personal lives. Who are they to determine what retention device you have on your holster. Stranger things have happened. I don't personally use retention holsters, a friction fit has always worked for me.

Agree enough to like. But not sure about the hypothetical and what it's.

The other elephant in the room are cops who aren't emotionally or mentally suited to be in law enforcement. Or, they have become that way over time on the force.

If a professional pulls me over, and I treat that person with respect so that we have a conversation, then much of the current (and future what if) situations will be fixed.

 

[Grand Vol]

and I treat that person with respect

What if it's an Alabama fan?

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

I'm not sure many people use retention. Correct me if I'm wrong on that though. Usually they keep in the glove compartment, between seats, or back seat to be three moves away. I see your point though but that a simple statement away. "Hey officer my holster is a level three."

At least all the carriers I know don't use it. They use friction like you.

I know a few that do. A few years back the Blackhawk serpa holster was very popular. I suspect the more inexperienced carrier will opt for a retention device. That's just my opinion though. It's just something that's out there, also most cops will want to clear the gun. If they aren't gun guys and all they know is their glock service weapon, what will he do with say, a sig p220 or a beretta jetfire? Lots of land mines there.

Just giving food for thought.

 

[McDad]

What if it's an Alabama fan?

Neither mentally or emotionally stable. So, wouldn't be a cop in my utopia.

 

[McDad]

I know a few that do. A few years back the Blackhawk serpa holster was very popular. I suspect the more inexperienced carrier will opt for a retention device. That's just my opinion though. It's just something that's out there, also most cops will want to clear the gun. If they aren't gun guys and all they know is their glock service weapon, what will he do with say, a sig p220 or a beretta jetfire? Lots of land mines there.

Just giving food for thought.

Wouldn't the officer simply ask you to instruct him/her how to clear?

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Wouldn't the officer simply ask you to instruct him/her how to clear?

Perhaps, keep in mind both heart rates will be up tremendously.

I'm just pointing out the whole let the cop disarm you argument is silly. You have just as much right to stand/sit there with your firearm as he does. What about YOUR need to feel safe? Since it's usually all about how the cop feels. How about they stop pulling people over for stupid petty revenue gathering crap.

 

[McDad]

Perhaps, keep in mind both heart rates will be up tremendously.

God designed us with brains above our heart. Just need to use em like that

 

[McDad]

Perhaps, keep in mind both heart rates will be up tremendously.

I'm just pointing out the whole let the cop disarm you argument is silly. You have just as much right to stand/sit there with your firearm as he does. What about YOUR need to feel safe? Since it's usually all about how the cop feels. How about they stop pulling people over for stupid petty revenue gathering crap.

Both have an equal need for safety. The officers responsibility is to ensure the safety of both of you. Your rights are important, though.

I see it as self preservation. I am less likely to be involved in a horrible mistake if I voluntarily help the officer feel secure in the moment.