To Protect and to Serve II

#3,026
#3,026
McDad said:
Is he holding the firearm? Or did he pull it out to put in plain view of officer?
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He stated that he was carrying and then reached for what we can only presume was the general direction of his back waistband. Whether it was for the gun or his ID, we'll never know.
 
#3,027
#3,027
orangeblood79 said:
He stated that he was carrying and then reached for what we can only presume was the general direction of his back waistband. Whether it was for the gun or his ID, we'll never know.
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Why on earth would somebody politely say "Sir, I do have to tell you I have a firearm on me." and then draw it and shoot at an officer.

There is no excuse that should get this guy out of manslaughter charges.
 
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#3,029
#3,029
orangeblood79 said:
He stated that he was carrying and then reached for what we can only presume was the general direction of his back waistband. Whether it was for the gun or his ID, we'll never know.
Click to expand...

That doesnt sound like justified shooting by the officer to me.
 
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#3,030
#3,030
n_huffhines said:
Why on earth would somebody politely say "Sir, I do have to tell you I have a firearm on me." and then draw it and shoot at an officer.

There is no excuse that should get this guy out of manslaughter charges.
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If i tell the officer i have CC and firearm, I do NOT reach for it! If officer trigger-finger feels endangered, I let him retrieve and secure the weapon.
 
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#3,031
#3,031
lawgator1 said:
The dash cam video has been released. It shows what happened before the video she took. Normal stop until driver says he has a firearm, officer tells him several times not to pull it out, but he does anyway.

Driver sounds very lethargic. I think it possible he did not understand what the officer was telling him. But the officer cannot know that. Unfortunate but hard to fault the officer, who was professional throughout and had a split second to decide what the driver was doing.
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Where are you getting he pulled it out?
 
#3,032
#3,032
McDad said:
If i tell the officer i have CC and firearm, I do NOT reach for it! If officer trigger-finger feels endangered, I let him retrieve and secure the weapon.
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Yeah, I agree. But...

Cop: don't pull it out
Philando: I'm not pulling it out
Cop: don't pull it out!

then 9 or so unanswered shots
 
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#3,033
#3,033
n_huffhines said:
Why on earth would somebody politely say "Sir, I do have to tell you I have a firearm on me." and then draw it and shoot at an officer.

There is no excuse that should get this guy out of manslaughter charges.
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The interesting part is Mr. Castile was supposedly pulled over 40+ times over a period of 14 years. One would think this was a person who knew how to handle a police stop.
 
#3,034
#3,034
Things like this are why I'm a total proponent of body cams. A dashboard cam is not going to be helpful in things like this.
 
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#3,035
#3,035
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
The interesting part is Mr. Castile was supposedly pulled over 40+ times over a period of 14 years. One would think this was a person who knew how to handle a police stop.
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Seems like they'd be on a first name basis, like on the Office when the officers knew Dwight when they pulled him over.
 
#3,036
#3,036
#3,037
#3,037
n_huffhines said:
Yeah, I agree. But...

Cop: don't pull it out
Philando: I'm not pulling it out
Cop: don't pull it out!

then 9 or so unanswered shots
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Agreed.

I don't reach for anything. My hands are in plain sight on the steering wheel. If cop instructs me to produce ID, weapon, insurance ...whatever, i move slowly.
 
#3,038
#3,038
n_huffhines said:
Why on earth would somebody politely say "Sir, I do have to tell you I have a firearm on me." and then draw it and shoot at an officer.

There is no excuse that should get this guy out of manslaughter charges.
Click to expand...

I was in a fight last week with a guy who was as cool with me as anyone I've gotten out with. He knew he was about to go to jail and decided the best way to get out of it was to run and fight.

You never know how people are going to react in this job.
 
#3,039
#3,039
orangeblood79 said:
I was in a fight last week with a guy who was as cool with me as anyone I've gotten out with. He knew he was about to go to jail and decided the best way to get out of it was to run and fight.

You never know how people are going to react in this job.
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That's the kinda OTJ experience that gives cops a ton of leeway on cases like this one.

This guy who was shot did not need to be shot, did he?
 
#3,040
#3,040
n_huffhines said:
Why on earth would somebody politely say "Sir, I do have to tell you I have a firearm on me." and then draw it and shoot at an officer.

There is no excuse that should get this guy out of manslaughter charges.
Click to expand...

You have no idea what a Leo goes through day in and day out. Your privilege is showing huff
 
#3,041
#3,041
orangeblood79 said:
I was in a fight last week with a guy who was as cool with me as anyone I've gotten out with. He knew he was about to go to jail and decided the best way to get out of it was to run and fight.

You never know how people are going to react in this job.
Click to expand...

Did he tell you he was going to run/fight before he ran/fought?
 
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#3,042
#3,042
McDad said:
That's the kinda OTJ experience that gives cops a ton of leeway on cases like this one.

This guy who was shot did not need to be shot, did he?
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I'd like to think that he wouldn't have pulled a gun on a cop with his kid in the car but, the same guy I was just talking about HAD HIS, WIFE, MOM AND TWO DAUGHTERS WITH HIM.

The longer I do this job the less you know how people are going to react, every situation is different. All you can do is rely on, and treat seriously, your training.
 
#3,044
#3,044
n_huffhines said:
Did he tell you he was going to run/fight you before he ran/fought?
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Dont be like that.

You're saying the victim was low risk because of what he said to the cop. That's valid.

He's saying people's actions can suddenly and dramatically change with no prior warning. Also valid.
 
#3,045
#3,045
orangeblood79 said:
I'd like to think that he wouldn't have pulled a gun on a cop with his kid in the car but, the same guy I was just talking about HAD HIS, WIFE, MOM AND TWO DAUGHTERS WITH HIM.

The longer I do this job the less you know how people are going to react, every situation is different. All you can do is rely on, and treat seriously, your training.
Click to expand...

Q for you. You stop me and i inform i have a CC permit and firearm. What do you want me to do? What are your instructions? How do we diffuse any potential escalation of fear so neither of us get shot?
 
#3,046
#3,046
McDad said:
Q for you. You stop me and i inform i have a CC permit and firearm. What do you want me to do? What are your instructions? How do we diffuse any potential escalation of fear so neither of us get shot?
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"Yes sir, and thank you for telling me. For your safety and mine, just keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times, please."

What I do depends on you and my instincts, which I've learned to rely on heavily. I'll usually run your DL before I go back to my patrol car.
 
#3,047
#3,047
McDad said:
If i tell the officer i have CC and firearm, I do NOT reach for it! If officer trigger-finger feels endangered, I let him retrieve and secure the weapon.
Click to expand...

In TN you are under no obligation to tell the officer you are armed, in most minor traffic stops it's probably best not to and just keep your hands on the wheel.

Common sense has to come into play on both sides.
 
#3,048
#3,048
hog88 said:
In TN you are under no obligation to tell the officer you are armed, in most minor traffic stops it's probably best not to and just keep your hands on the wheel.

Common sense has to come into play on both sides.
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I'll disagree, it's best to tell. However, with the added items:

Already have your seatbelt unfastened.

Already have photo ID and CCW permit out along with insurance/registration, in between fingers on left hand while on steering wheel so the officer can retrieve it.

Both hands on the wheel, look at the officer while speaking.

Don't do anything until the officer says to move.

Common sense on both sides.
 
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#3,050
#3,050
Grand Vol said:
I'll disagree, it's best to tell. However, with the added items:

Already have your seatbelt unfastened.

Already have photo ID and CCW permit out along with insurance/registration, in between fingers on left hand while on steering wheel so the officer can retrieve it.

Both hands on the wheel, look at the officer while speaking.

Don't do anything until the officer says to move.

Common sense on both sides.
Click to expand...

I'll have my DL, POI and registration out and in hand before the LEO gets to the window. But I'm not volunteering that I'm armed unless it is actually in my person and I'm asked to get out.
 
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