To Protect and to Serve II

[Grand Vol]

Things like this are why I'm a total proponent of body cams. A dashboard cam is not going to be helpful in things like this.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

The interesting part is Mr. Castile was supposedly pulled over 40+ times over a period of 14 years. One would think this was a person who knew how to handle a police stop.

Seems like they'd be on a first name basis, like on the Office when the officers knew Dwight when they pulled him over.

 

[hndog609]

If i tell the officer i have CC and firearm, I do NOT reach for it! If officer trigger-finger feels endangered, I let him retrieve and secure the weapon.

Once an LEO knows I'm armed I'm going with something along the lines of "How would you like me to proceed?".

I also think there's some indecision in the NRA on exactly how to go public about this case.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/06/21/nra-tv-host-cop-who-killed-philando-cast

 

[McDad]

Yeah, I agree. But...

Cop: don't pull it out
Philando: I'm not pulling it out
Cop: don't pull it out!

then 9 or so unanswered shots

Agreed.

I don't reach for anything. My hands are in plain sight on the steering wheel. If cop instructs me to produce ID, weapon, insurance ...whatever, i move slowly.

 

[ob79]

Why on earth would somebody politely say "Sir, I do have to tell you I have a firearm on me." and then draw it and shoot at an officer.

There is no excuse that should get this guy out of manslaughter charges.

I was in a fight last week with a guy who was as cool with me as anyone I've gotten out with. He knew he was about to go to jail and decided the best way to get out of it was to run and fight.

You never know how people are going to react in this job.

 

[McDad]

I was in a fight last week with a guy who was as cool with me as anyone I've gotten out with. He knew he was about to go to jail and decided the best way to get out of it was to run and fight.

You never know how people are going to react in this job.

That's the kinda OTJ experience that gives cops a ton of leeway on cases like this one.

This guy who was shot did not need to be shot, did he?

 

[RikidyBones]

Why on earth would somebody politely say "Sir, I do have to tell you I have a firearm on me." and then draw it and shoot at an officer.

There is no excuse that should get this guy out of manslaughter charges.

You have no idea what a Leo goes through day in and day out. Your privilege is showing huff

 

[n_huffhines]

I was in a fight last week with a guy who was as cool with me as anyone I've gotten out with. He knew he was about to go to jail and decided the best way to get out of it was to run and fight.

You never know how people are going to react in this job.

Did he tell you he was going to run/fight before he ran/fought?

 

[ob79]

That's the kinda OTJ experience that gives cops a ton of leeway on cases like this one.

This guy who was shot did not need to be shot, did he?

I'd like to think that he wouldn't have pulled a gun on a cop with his kid in the car but, the same guy I was just talking about HAD HIS, WIFE, MOM AND TWO DAUGHTERS WITH HIM.

The longer I do this job the less you know how people are going to react, every situation is different. All you can do is rely on, and treat seriously, your training.

 

[ob79]

Did he tell you he was going to run/fight before he ran/fought?

No.

 

[McDad]

Did he tell you he was going to run/fight you before he ran/fought?

Dont be like that.

You're saying the victim was low risk because of what he said to the cop. That's valid.

He's saying people's actions can suddenly and dramatically change with no prior warning. Also valid.

 

[McDad]

I'd like to think that he wouldn't have pulled a gun on a cop with his kid in the car but, the same guy I was just talking about HAD HIS, WIFE, MOM AND TWO DAUGHTERS WITH HIM.

The longer I do this job the less you know how people are going to react, every situation is different. All you can do is rely on, and treat seriously, your training.

Q for you. You stop me and i inform i have a CC permit and firearm. What do you want me to do? What are your instructions? How do we diffuse any potential escalation of fear so neither of us get shot?

 

[ob79]

Q for you. You stop me and i inform i have a CC permit and firearm. What do you want me to do? What are your instructions? How do we diffuse any potential escalation of fear so neither of us get shot?

"Yes sir, and thank you for telling me. For your safety and mine, just keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times, please."

What I do depends on you and my instincts, which I've learned to rely on heavily. I'll usually run your DL before I go back to my patrol car.

 

[hog88]

If i tell the officer i have CC and firearm, I do NOT reach for it! If officer trigger-finger feels endangered, I let him retrieve and secure the weapon.

In TN you are under no obligation to tell the officer you are armed, in most minor traffic stops it's probably best not to and just keep your hands on the wheel.

Common sense has to come into play on both sides.

 

[Grand Vol]

In TN you are under no obligation to tell the officer you are armed, in most minor traffic stops it's probably best not to and just keep your hands on the wheel.

Common sense has to come into play on both sides.

I'll disagree, it's best to tell. However, with the added items:

Already have your seatbelt unfastened.

Already have photo ID and CCW permit out along with insurance/registration, in between fingers on left hand while on steering wheel so the officer can retrieve it.

Both hands on the wheel, look at the officer while speaking.

Don't do anything until the officer says to move.

Common sense on both sides.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

It's best to record the encounter as well.

 

[hog88]

I'll disagree, it's best to tell. However, with the added items:

Already have your seatbelt unfastened.

Already have photo ID and CCW permit out along with insurance/registration, in between fingers on left hand while on steering wheel so the officer can retrieve it.

Both hands on the wheel, look at the officer while speaking.

Don't do anything until the officer says to move.

Common sense on both sides.

I'll have my DL, POI and registration out and in hand before the LEO gets to the window. But I'm not volunteering that I'm armed unless it is actually in my person and I'm asked to get out.

 

[RikidyBones]

I'll disagree, it's best to tell. However, with the added items:

Already have your seatbelt unfastened.

Already have photo ID and CCW permit out along with insurance/registration, in between fingers on left hand while on steering wheel so the officer can retrieve it.

Both hands on the wheel, look at the officer while speaking.

Don't do anything until the officer says to move.

Common sense on both sides.

Don't disarm yourself. Ever.

Let the officer do it.

 

[McDad]

"Yes sir, and thank you for telling me. For your safety and mine, just keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times, please."

What I do depends on you and my instincts, which I've learned to rely on heavily. I'll usually run your DL before I go back to my patrol car.

Thanks. Guarantee you'd have compliance from me with that verbiage and instruction.

 

[TheDeeble]

I'll disagree, it's best to tell.

The instructor in our class told us there's no need to volunteer the information. The officer can see if you have a carry permit when he runs your tags/license. If he wants to know if you're carrying he'll ask.

I can't remember where the guy that taught our class worked. He was either with Shelby Country Sheriff dept, Tipton County Sheriff dept, or state trooper.

 

[McDad]

The instructor in our class told us there's no need to volunteer the information. The officer can see if you have a carry permit when he runs your tags/license. If he wants to know if you're carrying he'll ask.

I can't remember where the guy that taught our class worked. He was either with Shelby Country Sheriff dept, Tipton County Sheriff dept, or state trooper.

That's precisely why i would voluntarily divulge. Officer will find out once they get back to their car, anyway.

Let them know you got nothing to hide.

 

[Grand Vol]

The instructor in our class told us there's no need to volunteer the information. The officer can see if you have a carry permit when he runs your tags/license. If he wants to know if you're carrying he'll ask.

I can't remember where the guy that taught our class worked. He was either with Shelby Country Sheriff dept, Tipton County Sheriff dept, or state trooper.

It's also a State by State thing. Some States you have to divulge the information. Just a good habit to get into especially with TN having a lot of reciprocity out there and if you travel to other States.

 

[McDad]

Ive encounted a couple of power-mad cops in my time.vast majority are professional, and simply doing their job.

I am not afraid of the business-like cops. But i also don't wanna give an emotionally unstable cop reason to shoot me.

 

[TheDeeble]

That's precisely why i would voluntarily divulge. Officer will find out once they get back to their car, anyway.

Let them know you got nothing to hide.

Someone asked about that very scenario. Wouldn't it put the officer at ease if you told him there's nothing in the vehicle? Made sense to me.

He said the opposite. He said it would stand out to him if someone led with "I don't have a gun in the vehicle." His opinion was he can see if you have a carry permit. If he sees that he approaches everyone the same regardless even if you tell him you don't have a gun in the vehicle. There a degree of unknown with every stop and somebody volunteering that information isn't going to make him instantly trust that they're being truthful. If he wants to know he'll ask.

Maybe he'd had an instance where someone lied. Can't remember.

 

[n_huffhines]

Dont be like that.

You're saying the victim was low risk because of what he said to the cop. That's valid.

He's saying people's actions can suddenly and dramatically change with no prior warning. Also valid.

Right but he said that in response to my post. My point is that he told him he had a gun. I am certain criminals practice deception in the form of being nice to police, but that's irrelevant to my point.