To Protect and to Serve II

[hndog609]

Someone asked about that very scenario. Wouldn't it put the officer at ease if you told him there's nothing in the vehicle? Made sense to me.

He said the opposite. He said it would stand out to him if someone led with "I don't have a gun in the vehicle." His opinion was he can see if you have a carry permit. If he sees that he approaches everyone the same regardless even if you tell him you don't have a gun in the vehicle. There a degree of unknown with every stop and somebody volunteering that information isn't going to make him instantly trust that they're being truthful. If he wants to know he'll ask.

Maybe he'd had an instance where someone lied. Can't remember.

I've heard a number of anecdotal statements where people were convinced they were let off with a warning in large part by handing over their CCW with their license/insurance and answering any firearm related questions. YMMV

 

[TheDeeble]

I've heard a number of anecdotal statements where people were convinced they were let off with a warning in large part by handing over their CCW with their license/insurance and answering any firearm related questions. YMMV

I'd definitely agree with answering any questions. Refusing to answer if you have anything in the vehicle will probably set off alarms in any officer's head.

It probably varies from officer to officer as far as volunteering the info. I've been pulled over 2 times I think since I've had a carry permit and I've never said anything about it and they've never asked. But they probably approach someone they pulled over for going 8 mph over or not having your headlights on in the rain( it wasn't even raining, it quit 10 minutes earlier) different than they would someone that matches a vehicle fleeing the scene of a robbery.

 

[McDad]

Right but he said that in response to my post. My point is that he told him he had a gun. I am certain criminals practice deception in the form of being nice to police, but that's irrelevant to my point.

Perhaps i misunderstood.

Isn't your point the victim's action and replies gave absolutely no indication of threat?

 

[n_huffhines]

Perhaps i misunderstood.

Isn't your point the victim's action and replies gave absolutely no indication of threat?

He said "I have a firearm". Why would somebody tell the police this if he meant to do harm to the police? This is not a 1:1 comparison to someone being deceptively polite to police. Hence the question, "did he tell you he was going to run/fight?"

 

[n_huffhines]

http://reason.com/blog/2017/06/21/nra-tv-host-cop-who-killed-philando-cast

Good follow-up :good!:

 

[RikidyBones]

Good follow-up :good!:

In that Phliando says "I wasn't reaching for it"

Leaving it up for interpretation is the issue and why Yanez walking a free man is the correct decision.

Again let the officer disarm you, don't move unless instructed, ask to step out of the car to get your wallet, etc.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Or, we could address the elephant in the room. Stop pulling people over for petty sh*t. People have just as much right to carry a firearm as any cop does. Perhaps the better method should be the cop should leave his weapon in his patrol car before approaching a citizens vehicle. Since it's pretty clear there are cops out there who **** the bed at the sight of a gun.

About this let the cop disarm you thing, In today's market of concealment holsters, you have a plethora of options with retention devices. Cops don't generally have the best safety record out there, and that could very well be a land mine waiting to be stepped on. The cop could have in his mind the retention he feels from the holster as a tug from the citizen and with that, the ball is rolling. Point being, most cops aren't shooters, they couldn't care less about guns in their personal lives. Who are they to determine what retention device you have on your holster. Stranger things have happened. I don't personally use retention holsters, a friction fit has always worked for me.

 

[McDad]

He said "I have a firearm". Why would somebody tell the police this if he meant to do harm to the police? This is not a 1:1 comparison to someone being deceptively polite to police. Hence the question, "did he tell you he was going to run/fight?"

In his anecdote, he stated how a suspect can act radically different from one moment to the next.

 

[RikidyBones]

Or, we could address the elephant in the room. Stop pulling people over for petty sh*t. People have just as much right to carry a firearm as any cop does. Perhaps the better method should be the cop should leave his weapon in his patrol car before approaching a citizens vehicle. Since it's pretty clear there are cops out there who **** the bed at the sight of a gun.

About this let the cop disarm you thing, In today's market of concealment holsters, you have a plethora of options with retention devices. Cops don't generally have the best safety record out there, and that could very well be a land mine waiting to be stepped on. The cop could have in his mind the retention he feels from the holster as a tug from the citizen and with that, the ball is rolling. Point being, most cops aren't shooters, they couldn't care less about guns in their personal lives. Who are they to determine what retention device you have on your holster. Stranger things have happened. I don't personally use retention holsters, a friction fit has always worked for me.

I'm not sure many people use retention. Correct me if I'm wrong on that though. Usually they keep in the glove compartment, between seats, or back seat to be three moves away. I see your point though but that a simple statement away. "Hey officer my holster is a level three."

At least all the carriers I know don't use it. They use friction like you.

 

[McDad]

Or, we could address the elephant in the room. Stop pulling people over for petty sh*t. People have just as much right to carry a firearm as any cop does. Perhaps the better method should be the cop should leave his weapon in his patrol car before approaching a citizens vehicle. Since it's pretty clear there are cops out there who **** the bed at the sight of a gun.

About this let the cop disarm you thing, In today's market of concealment holsters, you have a plethora of options with retention devices. Cops don't generally have the best safety record out there, and that could very well be a land mine waiting to be stepped on. The cop could have in his mind the retention he feels from the holster as a tug from the citizen and with that, the ball is rolling. Point being, most cops aren't shooters, they couldn't care less about guns in their personal lives. Who are they to determine what retention device you have on your holster. Stranger things have happened. I don't personally use retention holsters, a friction fit has always worked for me.

Agree enough to like. But not sure about the hypothetical and what it's.

The other elephant in the room are cops who aren't emotionally or mentally suited to be in law enforcement. Or, they have become that way over time on the force.

If a professional pulls me over, and I treat that person with respect so that we have a conversation, then much of the current (and future what if) situations will be fixed.

 

[Grand Vol]

and I treat that person with respect

What if it's an Alabama fan?

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

I'm not sure many people use retention. Correct me if I'm wrong on that though. Usually they keep in the glove compartment, between seats, or back seat to be three moves away. I see your point though but that a simple statement away. "Hey officer my holster is a level three."

At least all the carriers I know don't use it. They use friction like you.

I know a few that do. A few years back the Blackhawk serpa holster was very popular. I suspect the more inexperienced carrier will opt for a retention device. That's just my opinion though. It's just something that's out there, also most cops will want to clear the gun. If they aren't gun guys and all they know is their glock service weapon, what will he do with say, a sig p220 or a beretta jetfire? Lots of land mines there.

Just giving food for thought.

 

[McDad]

What if it's an Alabama fan?

Neither mentally or emotionally stable. So, wouldn't be a cop in my utopia.

 

[McDad]

I know a few that do. A few years back the Blackhawk serpa holster was very popular. I suspect the more inexperienced carrier will opt for a retention device. That's just my opinion though. It's just something that's out there, also most cops will want to clear the gun. If they aren't gun guys and all they know is their glock service weapon, what will he do with say, a sig p220 or a beretta jetfire? Lots of land mines there.

Just giving food for thought.

Wouldn't the officer simply ask you to instruct him/her how to clear?

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Wouldn't the officer simply ask you to instruct him/her how to clear?

Perhaps, keep in mind both heart rates will be up tremendously.

I'm just pointing out the whole let the cop disarm you argument is silly. You have just as much right to stand/sit there with your firearm as he does. What about YOUR need to feel safe? Since it's usually all about how the cop feels. How about they stop pulling people over for stupid petty revenue gathering crap.

 

[McDad]

Perhaps, keep in mind both heart rates will be up tremendously.

God designed us with brains above our heart. Just need to use em like that

 

[McDad]

Perhaps, keep in mind both heart rates will be up tremendously.

I'm just pointing out the whole let the cop disarm you argument is silly. You have just as much right to stand/sit there with your firearm as he does. What about YOUR need to feel safe? Since it's usually all about how the cop feels. How about they stop pulling people over for stupid petty revenue gathering crap.

Both have an equal need for safety. The officers responsibility is to ensure the safety of both of you. Your rights are important, though.

I see it as self preservation. I am less likely to be involved in a horrible mistake if I voluntarily help the officer feel secure in the moment.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

God designed us with brains above our heart. Just need to use em like that

I have a few friends who completely lose their sh*t around cops. They can't function, they get dry mouth so they can't talk, motor skills are slightly impaired. Usually makes the cop suspicious, that's usually where the I don't consent to any searches line comes in lol

I bet more people are like that they would care to admit.

 

[McDad]

I have a few friends who completely lose their sh*t around cops. They can't function, they get dry mouth so they can't talk, motor skills are slightly impaired. Usually makes the cop suspicious, that's usually where the I don't consent to any searches comes in lol

I bet more people are like than they would care to admit.

Your friends would be wise to have something printed to give over stating the extreme stress around cops so the officer can have a reason to interpret the behavior properly. Seriously.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Your friends would be wise to have something printed to give over stating the extreme stress around cops so the officer can have a reason to interpret the behavior properly. Seriously.

More times than not it's pretty simple. If pulled over, have your right hand on the steering wheel and the left hand holding your "papers" out the slightly rolled up window. Don't answer any questions and if asked to step out of the car, lock your car even if you have nothing to hide (contrary to popular belief, police planting stuff is real) Have your hands in a clearly visible fashion and I've never really had any problems. Well, in the last few years anyway. If cops know that you are aware of your rights, they usually won't go too deep with you. Hell, most cops don't even know the law.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Q for you. You stop me and i inform i have a CC permit and firearm. What do you want me to do? What are your instructions? How do we diffuse any potential escalation of fear so neither of us get shot?

Last time I checked, the 2nd Amendment was still alive and well. When any officer approaches a vehicle, they should already be under the assumption that the citizen is armed. Why should it all of sudden raise the intensity level once a citizen declares he is armed?

 

[volbeast33]

Last time I checked, the 2nd Amendment was still alive and well. When any officer approaches a vehicle, they should already be under the assumption that the citizen is armed. Why should it all of sudden raise the intensity level once a citizen declares he is armed?

Cops are shot at.... if no one ever shot at them than I am sure the intensity level would not be raised

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

It's time to post this once again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cElTyqJkMEw&feature=share

 

[Carl Pickens]

I was in a fight last week with a guy who was as cool with me as anyone I've gotten out with. He knew he was about to go to jail and decided the best way to get out of it was to run and fight.

You never know how people are going to react in this job.

You're always going to have the naive cop haters to deal with

 

[McDad]

This part is great. Fully agree.

More times than not it's pretty simple. If pulled over, have your right hand on the steering wheel and the left hand holding your "papers" out the slightly rolled up window.

This part is asinine. Majority are simply doing the job the best they can. If they want you out of your car, you're coming out. They will tow it and guess what, you cannot ride on a towed vehicle. This simply makes everyone's day more difficult.

Don't answer any questions and if asked to step out of the car, lock your car even if you have nothing to hide (contrary to popular belief, police planting stuff is real) Have your hands in a clearly visible fashion and I've never really had any problems. Well, in the last few years anyway. If cops know that you are aware of your rights, they usually won't go too deep with you. Hell, most cops don't even know the law.