To Protect and to Serve II

#6,401
#6,401
tim said:
You have to consider the source of the information. The producers are creating doubt by controlling the information.
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It’s established that none of her blood DNA was found in the trailer or garage and that’s where the DA says she was stabbed and shot.
 
#6,402
#6,402
hog88 said:
It’s established that none of her blood DNA was found in the trailer or garage and that’s where the DA says she was stabbed and shot.
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The bullet had Halbach dna on it found in the garage. Bullet matched rifle. Avery and Dassy cleaned the garage floor. Avery used a fake name, used *67 (multiple)while calling her cell, and once answered the door wearing only a towel when she showed up. There is more dna evidence. Slips my mind right now.
 
#6,403
#6,403
tim said:
The bullet had Halbach dna on it found in the garage. Bullet matched rifle. Avery and Dassy cleaned the garage floor. Avery used a fake name, used *67 (multiple)while calling her cell, and once answered the door wearing only a towel when she showed up. There is more dna evidence. Slips my mind right now.
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The bullet did have her DNA on it but no bone residue although it went through her skull twice which is remarkable for a .22 in itself.

There is no way these two yahoos were able to clean that trailer and garage to the point NO blood could be found. It’s not easy getting bloood out of a mattress and carpet. Also Avery was stupid enough to leave his blood in her from a cut on his hand but smart enough to wipe all of his fingerprints?
 
#6,404
#6,404
hog88 said:
The bullet did have her DNA on it but no bone residue although it went through her skull twice which is remarkable for a .22 in itself.

There is no way these two yahoos were able to clean that trailer and garage to the point NO blood could be found. It’s not easy getting bloood out of a mattress and carpet. Also Avery was stupid enough to leave his blood in her from a cut on his hand but smart enough to wipe all of his fingerprints?
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Forensics are fickle. I think we’re looking at the same thing from different pov’s. Would you agree that he set the encounter up and is/was “interested “ in her outside of a business relationship?
 
#6,405
#6,405
tim said:
Forensics are fickle. I think we’re looking at the same thing from different pov’s. Would you agree that he set the encounter up and is/was “interested “ in her outside of a business relationship?
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Yes he set the encounter up by calling auto trader and requesting an appointment instead of calling her directly (he had her cell number). I’m sure he was interested in her.
 
#6,407
#6,407
tim said:
They’re guilty as sin. The show is one sided. Much like the Arkansas/3. Believe what you want, but there is way too much underplayed or flatly ignored in the docuseries.
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The West Memphis 3 is a very interesting case. After watching documentaries and interviews, I was convinced those guys were innocent. Years later, I did more research and watched recent interviews with the suspects and I’m convinced they committed the murders. I think they had help as well from at least one adult. I firmly believe it was part of a Satanic ritual and that they weren’t typical heavy metal outcasts as they were portrayed by celebrities.
 
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#6,408
#6,408
Good.

Georgia sheriff’s office posts ‘no trick-or-treat’ Halloween signs on registered sex offenders’ houses

A Georgia sheriff’s office doesn’t want trick-or-treaters knocking on the wrong door on Halloween.

Signs were being placed at registered sex offenders’ homes Wednesday to warn residents to avoid the houses, the Butts County Sheriff’s Office said.

The sign reads: “Warning! No trick-or-treat at this address!! A community safety message from Butts County Sheriff Gary Long.”

Long wrote in a Facebook post that Georgia law forbids registered sex offenders from participating in Halloween, which also includes putting up decorations for the holiday. Officers have posted the signs to provide residents a “safe and enjoyable Halloween.”

“As Sheriff, there is nothing more important to me than the safety of your children. This Halloween, my office has placed signs in front of every registered sex offender's house to notify the public that it's a house to avoid,” the post read.
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#6,409
#6,409
volinbham said:
Not sure if this video will work - what are people thinking.

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A little late seeing this.

Both officers showed professionalism and restraint in that situation. As for the 2 subjects shouting and screaming, not so much.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. One of these days they'll realize they should have acted with more restraint.
 
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#6,410
#6,410
hog88 said:
Avery's trial lawyers and the jury members weren't the sharpest knives in the drawer either.
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I have not watched Season 2, but what I saw in Season 1, the shorter of Avery’s trial lawyers was one of the best I’ve seen. He was actually really good.

Probably the most ****ed up part of the criminal justice system is how much burden it places on the defense attorney, and how ridiculously difficult that job is, especially in trial.

Brendan Dassey’s lawyers were absolute trash across the board and need to be disbarred. There’s nothing difficult about “don’t let your murder client talk to the police alone.” It broke my heart when his Habeas got shot down, that was the wrong decision.

It is important to counsel your client objectively about their risks and how strong their case is in terms of whether to plead guilty. Putting them in a room and having your investigator bully them into a plea is offensive and should merit discipline against the attorney.
 
#6,411
#6,411
RockyTop85 said:
I have not watched Season 2, but what I saw in Season 1, the shorter of Avery’s trial lawyers was one of the best I’ve seen. He was actually really good.

Probably the most ****ed up part of the criminal justice system is how much burden it places on the defense attorney, and how ridiculously difficult that job is, especially in trial.

Brendan Dassey’s lawyers were absolute trash across the board and need to be disbarred. There’s nothing difficult about “don’t let your murder client talk to the police alone.” It broke my heart when his Habeas got shot down, that was the wrong decision.

It is important to counsel your client objectively about their risks and how strong their case is in terms of whether to plead guilty. Putting them in a room and having your investigator bully them into a plea is offensive and should merit discipline against the attorney.
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I strongly disagree here. The defense has the benefit of discovery months in advance. They have access to everything the prosecution does and they can say almost anything they wish. Now the investigator you speak of was terrible terrible terrible. But, I discredit it some because we were only shown what the producers wanted us tosee
 
#6,412
#6,412
tim said:
I strongly disagree here. The defense has the benefit of discovery months in advance. They have access to everything the prosecution does and they can say almost anything they wish. Now the investigator you speak of was terrible terrible terrible. But, I discredit it some because we were only shown what the producers wanted us tosee
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No. I’ve tried murder cases and DUIs and thefts etc... the defense can’t say “anything you wish” they have to have a theme and theory or counter narrative to contest the State’s narrative.

Discovery in Tennessee does not have to come “months in advance.” Often it shows up a few weeks days or hours before trial. Testimony is also always different than what people have said at pretrial hearings so discovery is often of little value. Mostly what I’ve gotten before setting the trial Is a few slip of paper generated by the police department that all have the exact same arrest report narrative on them so better hope you did a good investigation. The State always fights to keep important things hidden until trial, if they turn them over at all. Clients have no resources compared to the state. Most criminal defense attorneys are one man operations. Most clients can’t afford an investigator or experts. It’s difficult to get approval for state funding if the attorney is paid a fee.

The prosecution goes first and last at trial in Tennessee. Primacy and the last word are tremendous advantages because, if the defense attorney is not good, they end up chasing the prosecution’s story rather than telling their client’s story. And if they do manage to tell their own story, the prosecutor get to stand up and say whatever at the end and you get no rebuttal, even if what he says is a total mischaracterization.

Laws across the nation have been rewritten to be incredibly broad. This happened in TN in 1989.

Presumption of innocence is worthless anymore. People trust the police, you wouldn’t be here if you didn’t do something wrong. Etc.

Finally, just the fact that a persons freedom rides on one person’s ability to perform, think on their feet, and instantaneously remember and apply vast swaths of legal rules, and react to unexpected testimony or proof... When you consider that that person has been required to have absolutely no formal trial practice training or apprenticeship, other than going to school for 3 years, where they learn nothing about how to try a case, learn mostly how to appeal a case, and then they take a multiple choice and essay exam that only marginally covers criminal law and evidence and has absolutely no practical applications... Asking one well-trained man to do all that is ****ing exhausting and by the end of it’s harder than you think to tell a coherent story, especially when people’s testimony changed.

That’s a ****ed up system that is designed to end in conviction.

Some attorneys are naturally gifted at it, but it takes a lot out of you. That’s why you see prosecutors try cases in back to back weeks if they need to, but even when trials were commonplace, excellent and active defense attorneys would only try a few a year.
 
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#6,417
#6,417
Grand Vol said:
Let's see, one is disgusting and illegal. The other is a lawful practice.

Want to play this game?
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I'm sure I can find plenty of liberals out here that would consider gun ownership disgusting and needing to be outlawed.

Look, I'm not saying, necessarily, that what this sheriff did is wrong. I'm just saying that we need to be very careful doing things like this because the sword can cut both ways.
 
#6,418
#6,418
RockyTop85 said:
No. I’ve tried murder cases and DUIs and thefts etc... the defense can’t say “anything you wish” they have to have a theme and theory or counter narrative to contest the State’s narrative.

Discovery in Tennessee does not have to come “months in advance.” Often it shows up a few weeks days or hours before trial. Testimony is also always different than what people have said at pretrial hearings so discovery is often of little value. Mostly what I’ve gotten before setting the trial Is a few slip of paper generated by the police department that all have the exact same arrest report narrative on them so better hope you did a good investigation. The State always fights to keep important things hidden until trial, if they turn them over at all. Clients have no resources compared to the state. Most criminal defense attorneys are one man operations. Most clients can’t afford an investigator or experts. It’s difficult to get approval for state funding if the attorney is paid a fee.

The prosecution goes first and last at trial in Tennessee. Primacy and the last word are tremendous advantages because, if the defense attorney is not good, they end up chasing the prosecution’s story rather than telling their client’s story. And if they do manage to tell their own story, the prosecutor get to stand up and say whatever at the end and you get no rebuttal, even if what he says is a total mischaracterization.

Laws across the nation have been rewritten to be incredibly broad. This happened in TN in 1989.

Presumption of innocence is worthless anymore. People trust the police, you wouldn’t be here if you didn’t do something wrong. Etc.

Finally, just the fact that a persons freedom rides on one person’s ability to perform, think on their feet, and instantaneously remember and apply vast swaths of legal rules, and react to unexpected testimony or proof... When you consider that that person has been required to have absolutely no formal trial practice training or apprenticeship, other than going to school for 3 years, where they learn nothing about how to try a case, learn mostly how to appeal a case, and then they take a multiple choice and essay exam that only marginally covers criminal law and evidence and has absolutely no practical applications... Asking one well-trained man to do all that is ****ing exhausting and by the end of it’s harder than you think to tell a coherent story, especially when people’s testimony changed.

That’s a ****ed up system that is designed to end in conviction.

Some attorneys are naturally gifted at it, but it takes a lot out of you. That’s why you see prosecutors try cases in back to back weeks if they need to, but even when trials were commonplace, excellent and active defense attorneys would only try a few a year.
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Ok, this is priceless. Defense attorneys are notorious for coming up with outlandish defense strategies (see OJ) and discovery is most certainly provided to the defense months prior to trial. If not then you’re not much of an attorney. The system seems unfair toboth sides at times andI could cite many prosecution examples like severance of cases and prejudicial information.
 
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#6,420
#6,420
#6,421
#6,421
n_huffhines said:
How do cops like this exist? How???

Massachusetts Cop Charged With Kicking Latino Teen, Spitting on Him, Saying: 'Welcome to the White Man's World'
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Because cops are people to. Cops are a microcosm of society in general. There are great, good, meh, bad, very bad people in society. Some cops will inevitably be bad and very bad. Some will be good to great. The vast majority are probably meh. Hopefully the bad to very bad get rooted out and are served with the appropriate punishment they deserve. Also, hopefullythe good ones and great ones get the appropriate praise and rewards they deserve and inspire the meh ones to be good and great.
 
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#6,422
#6,422
tim said:
Ok, this is priceless. Defense attorneys are notorious for coming up with outlandish defense strategies (see OJ) and discovery is most certainly provided to the defense months prior to trial. If not then you’re not much of an attorney. The system seems unfair toboth sides at times andI could cite many prosecution examples like severance of cases and prejudicial information.
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I love it when you tell me that a wealthy celebrity bankrupting himself to discredit a police force for planting evidence, in one of the most notorious instances of investigative misconduct in recent memory, is indicative of a typical defendant’s advantages in the American criminal court system.

Also, I may very well be a terrible attorney, but Tennessee courts have held that a few hours was enough time for a defense attorney to review discovery, and have held that matters concerning the timely production of discovery are subject to a highly deferential standard of review. It’s not an issue that has any appellate merit. Trial judges have no incentive to set or enforce discovery deadlines.
 
#6,424
#6,424
InVOLuntary said:
Because cops are people to. Cops are a microcosm of society in general. There are great, good, meh, bad, very bad people in society. Some cops will inevitably be bad and very bad. Some will be good to great. The vast majority are probably meh. Hopefully the bad to very bad get rooted out and are served with the appropriate punishment they deserve. Also, hopefullythe good ones and great ones get the appropriate praise and rewards they deserve and inspire the meh ones to be good and great.
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This is totally true. I know some really good police officers. I know some really bad ones. Most are in the middle.

The problem is the culture of brotherhood and righteous justification that causes the good ones to stay silent and the ones in the middle to circle the wagons when one of the bad ones gets outed.

JMO, and not sure how to change it.
 
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