The Venezuela thread

[LouderVol]

That's fine but the "authority" to advance those interests has limits. We can't just nuke the Kremlin because we're po'd about Ukraine. Once we breach another country's sovereignty -- right or wrong -- we invite the same from our adversaries.

thats a really bad example to use. because under your "breach another country's sovereignty" argument Russia invited the nuking because of their war on Ukraine.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

China tells Trump to stay away from Venezuela's oil - and calls for Maduro's 'immediate release'​

China today urged Donald Trump to stay away from Venezuela's oil after the US said it would run the country following an operation to capture president Nicolas Maduro.

But China, which has invested billions in Venezuela's oil industry, claimed agreements it has with Caracas over oil exports from the country would be 'protected by law'.

China, an ally of Venezuela, also called for Mr Maduro and his wife Cilia Flores to be 'immediately released' in a strong condemnation of the operation over the weekend.

China's foreign ministry said the move was a 'clear violation of international law, basic norms in international relations, and the purposes and principles of the UN Charter'.

Officials in Beijing also called on Washington to 'cease efforts to subvert the Venezuelan government and resolve issues through dialogue and negotiation'.

Just last Friday, Mr Maduro was at the Miraflores Palace in Caracas meeting Qiu Xiaoqi, special representative of the Chinese government on Latin American affairs.

Meanwhile more than a dozen oil tankers loaded with Venezuelan crude and fuel were revealed to have fled the country in an attempt to evade American forces.



Venezuela's president Nicolas Maduro and Chinese official Qiu Xiaoqi in Caracas last Friday


Writing in The Mail on Sunday, he added: 'It might be a global power ready to rival the US, but China is energy poor with not nearly enough deposits of gas and oil to keeps its factory furnaces ablaze. Now, China will have to find another source of cheap oil.'

China calls for Maduro's release as it reels from Venezuela oil loss

China today urged Donald Trump to stay away from Venezuela's oil after the US said it would run the country following an operation to capture president Nicolas Maduro.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[LSU-SIU]

That's fine but the "authority" to advance those interests has limits. We can't just nuke the Kremlin because we're po'd about Ukraine. Once we breach another country's sovereignty -- right or wrong -- we invite the same from our adversaries.

What year is it? Welcome to 40 years ago if not longer.

There isn't anything new about this other than the orange man joined the band.

 

[LSU-SIU]

thats a really bad example to use. because under your "breach another country's sovereignty" argument Russia invited the nuking because of their war on Ukraine.

No. The US went in with the cia just like Venezuela...there were shots fired there. Pawn.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Stock market goes ballistic as Wall Street makes huge bet on Trump's Venezuela raid​

Stocks were up sharply Monday after Donald Trump announced plans to take over Venezuela's oil industry following the capture of socialist dictator Nicolas Maduro.

Crude oil prices remained remarkably stable as investors bet that the military action would not lead to broader geopolitical fallout. US crude fell 31 cents, or 0.54 percent, to $57.01 per barrel, while the global benchmark Brent fell 22 cents to $60.53.

The typical 'war premium' was entirely offset by the prospect of Venezuela's massive reserves, the largest in the world, eventually flooding the market under US control.

Stock market goes ballistic as Wall Street makes huge bet on Venezuela

President Donald Trump announced plans to take control of Venezuela's oil industry and said American companies would revitalize it after capturing President Nicolás Maduro.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[BeardedVol]

No. The US went in with the cia just like Venezuela...there were shots fired there. Pawn.

So many "CIA agents".

 

[LouderVol]

No. The US went in with the cia just like Venezuela...there were shots fired there. Pawn.

lol, keep acting like the US is the sole actor on the world stage. talk about pawn, you have been pwn'd so hard by the tankies you like it.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Music heiress who voted for Kamala hails Trump's capture of Maduro and says woke critics 'are just addicted to being mad'​

Music heiress Sara Foster has applauded President Donald Trump's capture of Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro and said critics of the operation are 'just addicted to being mad'.

Foster, 44, revealed her support of Maduro's capture in a social media video posted Saturday as she encouraged her followers to 'learn about' the conditions that Venezuelans have been forced to endure for decades.

The daughter of music legend David Foster shared how she has been helping Venezuelan families for 10 years and claimed that 'anyone who hasn't been there or in close contact with people there have no clue.'

'People are just addicted to being mad. Well while ur (sic) mad, Venezuela is happy for the first time in 25 years,' said Foster.

'I did not vote for Trump. Not that I was excited to vote for Kamala, but I did,' she told her followers in a video apparently filmed in her car. 'But what I have done is facilitate food, medicine, basic essentials for children in Venezuela for over 10 years.'


Music heiress Sara Fosterhas applauded President Donald Trump's capture of Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro and said critics of the operation are 'just addicted to being mad'

The music heiress went on to detail the horrific conditions that Venezuelan families have faced under the rule of Maduro and his predecessor Hugo Chavez.

She shared how she has devised 'close relationships' with women who were forced to watch their children die because they could not access basic essentials, such as food and medical care.

Music heiress who voted for Kamala hails Trump's capture of Maduro

Sara Foster revealed her support of Nicolas Maduro's capture and encouraged others to 'learn about' the conditions that Venezuelans have been forced to endure for decades.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[LouderVol]

lets put aside the question of why the eff anyone should care about her, but I just really want to know how much time people spend to go find some completely irrelevant person's opinion to pass off as a compelling or pertinent commentary.

I also wonder if there is some bar they won't dig under in the search to find anything that pushes whatever narrative is currently being fed.

 

[LSU-SIU]

lol, keep acting like the US is the sole actor on the world stage. talk about pawn, you have been pwn'd so hard by the tankies you like it.

I never said that nor implied it, but the Ukraine is/was a CIA operation, nothing different than Venezuela, Syria, Libya, Panama, etc. Heck, Iraqi was a CIA operation before it was a military operation, as was Afghanistan.

I haven't been pawed, I'm not surprised at all that we are paying Al Qaeda, the Taliban and ISIS right now. Why do you believe I wrote all you guys off many decades ago?

 

[LSU-SIU]

So many "CIA agents".

You have protest in the U.S. as well, so? Its the same nonsense that has been going on for 40+ years. All we need now is Eric, Donald Jr. and Barron to be running drugs and arms by plane.

I wrote all you insane people off a long time ago, for a very valid reason.

Now show me all the videos of the CIA agents in Venezuela? They all made a deal.



Here is the U.S.

 

[lawgator1]

thats a really bad example to use. because under your "breach another country's sovereignty" argument Russia invited the nuking because of their war on Ukraine.

And Venezuela or Maduros could be said to have invited our action there because of the exporting of cocaine to the US/illegitimately holding office.

This just goes back to might does not make right. We don't get to decide these issues for everyone else. Its not simply our subjective opinion that counts, and we do it because we can. Its a bad and potentially very dangerous precedent.

 

[LouderVol]

I never said that nor implied it, but the Ukraine is/was a CIA operation, nothing different than Venezuela, Syria, Libya, Panama, etc. Heck, Iraqi was a CIA operation before it was a military operation, as was Afghanistan.

I haven't been pawed, I'm not surprised at all that we are paying Al Qaeda, the Taliban and ISIS right now. Why do you believe I wrote all you guys off many decades ago?

you are missing the forest thru the trees.

Venezuela? done openly, and admitted to, and bragged about.
Syria - I guess it depends on which particular part of it, but we openly operated in Syria.
Libya even Obama publically admitted to doing it.
Panama, we flat out sent the troops end, no attempt at a cover up.

Ukraine? No public admittance, no open acts, nothing linked back to any officials. no reason to lump Ukraine into those acts by the US.

Russia on the other hand? They openly talked about taking over Ukraine. doing whatever it took to keep the west out. making sure they had the ports in Crimea, actively gave awards to their military outfits involved in the Maidan shooting. everything you THINK we did, Russia actually DID do. somehow the HYPOTHETHICAL of what we would/could do overrides what Russia actually did do. you have to completely ignore all of Russia's acts to blame the US, which is why I pointed out the One Actor fallacy.

you act like Russia didn't even know Ukraine existed until Nuland's cookies showed up.

 

[hog88]

pretty much anytime is too long.

but you must have more faith in our government's ability to effect a positive regime change than I do.

Not really, I'm just hoping we've learned a few lessons over the last 20+ years and don't make the same mistakes.

 

[LSU-SIU]

And Venezuela or Maduros could be said to have invited our action there because of the exporting of cocaine to the US/illegitimately holding office.

This just goes back to might does not make right. We don't get to decide these issues for everyone else. Its not simply our subjective opinion that counts, and we do it because we can. Its a bad and potentially very dangerous precedent.

It has nothing really to do with drugs, they are admitting its about resources and china, and we can.

 

[hog88]

That's a distinction without a difference.

We self-appointed ourselves the enforcer of what we perceive to be national security interests (or the civilian equivalent) and breached another country's sovereignty.

I'm not saying we're wrong, by the way, meaning Maduro may be every bit as bad and illegitimate as Trump says he is. My point is that its a subjective judgment we made, and others could make the same judgment. See e.g. Putin and Ukraine. He says their government is illegitimate, too.

Just seems like we lose some of the moral high ground here that we claim to have in other places.

There is no moral high ground.

 

[LSU-SIU]

you are missing the forest thru the trees.

Venezuela? done openly, and admitted to, and bragged about.
Syria - I guess it depends on which particular part of it, but we openly operated in Syria.
Libya even Obama publically admitted to doing it.
Panama, we flat out sent the troops end, no attempt at a cover up.

Ukraine? No public admittance, no open acts, nothing linked back to any officials. no reason to lump Ukraine into those acts by the US.

Russia on the other hand? They openly talked about taking over Ukraine. doing whatever it took to keep the west out. making sure they had the ports in Crimea, actively gave awards to their military outfits involved in the Maidan shooting. everything you THINK we did, Russia actually DID do. somehow the HYPOTHETHICAL of what we would/could do overrides what Russia actually did do. you have to completely ignore all of Russia's acts to blame the US, which is why I pointed out the One Actor fallacy.

you act like Russia didn't even know Ukraine existed until Nuland's cookies showed up.

I am not reading that grumbled mess. I don't even know what you are even referring to there.

you act like Russia didn't even know Ukraine existed until Nuland's cookies showed up.

No, Russia knew it was there especially after the CIA got involved... its the same thing that has been going on for 40 years. Nothing new. Ukraine will have to pay the price, eventually Europe will pay by collapsing. Classic H.W. action. Nothing complex about it.

 

[LouderVol]

And Venezuela or Maduros could be said to have invited our action there because of the exporting of cocaine to the US/illegitimately holding office.

This just goes back to might does not make right. We don't get to decide these issues for everyone else. Its not simply our subjective opinion that counts, and we do it because we can. Its a bad and potentially very dangerous precedent.

what? those situations are no where similar. him holding office or allegedly being tied to drugs has nothing to do with the US.

to the bolded, I go back to our involvement in Ukraine, which you support and I don't. we shouldn't be deciding for Ukraine or Venezuela. I don't pick and choose my interventions, I want to stay out of all of them; you flip flop based on the politics of the matter.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Not really, I'm just hoping we've learned a few lessons over the last 20+ years and don't make the same mistakes.

Hope in one hand, hog.

We've already made those same mistakes this week, and are chomping at the bit to take it even further.

 

[LouderVol]

Not really, I'm just hoping we've learned a few lessons over the last 20+ years and don't make the same mistakes.

20 years ago we could have said the same thing about learning from the previous 20. we didn't then, there is no reason to think we will now.

 

[hog88]

So Trump is saying no to the person who won the last election. So there goes that argument about freedom.

Trump says Venezuelan opposition leader doesn't have the 'respect' to govern after Maduro ousted

Venezuelans are reacting to the U.S. operation early Saturday that led to the capture of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro and his wife.

abcnews.go.com

"I think it would be very tough for her to be the leader. She doesn't have the support within or the respect within the country. She's a very nice woman, but she doesn't have the respect," Trump said.

She can run again.

Venezuela's constitution requires an election within 30 days whenever the president becomes "permanently unavailable" to serve. Reasons listed include death, resignation, removal from office or "abandonment" of duties as declared by the National Assembly.

Who is Delcy Rodríguez, Venezuela's interim president after Maduro's ouster?

 

[lawgator1]

what? those situations are no where similar. him holding office or allegedly being tied to drugs has nothing to do with the US.

to the bolded, I go back to our involvement in Ukraine, which you support and I don't. we shouldn't be deciding for Ukraine or Venezuela. I don't pick and choose my interventions, I want to stay out of all of them; you flip flop based on the politics of the matter.

No, we are not invading Russia, even for an hour, to topple a regime we view as illegitimate. We are helping a sovereign nation defend itself from an invader.

Versus

We invade the sovereignty of Venezuela ... because we can.

 

[LouderVol]

I am not reading that grumbled mess. I don't even know what you are even referring to there.



No, Russia knew it was there especially after the CIA got involved... its the same thing that has been going on for 40 years. Nothing new. Ukraine will have to pay the price, eventually Europe will pay by collapsing. Classic H.W. action. Nothing complex about it.

lol, if you think Russia's involvement in Ukraine goes back only 40 years I have a bridge to sell you in Atlantis.

like I said you will actively avoid hundreds of years of history to hyperfocus on a couple decades of carefully cherry picked "history"

 

[hog88]

20 years ago we could have said the same thing about learning from the previous 20. we didn't then, there is no reason to think we will now.

Prior to the GWOT our track record in nation building wasn't bad.

 

[LSU-SIU]

lol, if you think Russia's involvement in Ukraine goes back only 40 years I have a bridge to sell you in Atlantis.

like I said you will actively avoid hundreds of years of history to hyperfocus on a couple decades of carefully cherry picked "history"

No, the U.S. has been pulling these CIA operations for 40-50 years world wide, there is some from even the 60s. H.W.

Nobody is cherry picking history, its a whole ocean and apparently you weren't alive or got hit in the head with a big heavy thing.

I told you years ago this is how the CIA works, now we see it live. Nothing new to anyone that has been around for 40-50+ years, pretty much the norm.