The Tennessee Walking Horse

#101
#101
IPorange said:
USDA to address anti-soring horse conference - Daily Business Report - Kentucky.com

That's from Nov. 4 of this year.
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And again you are leaving out critical parts of the article.

SOMETIMES this method is used.

You are implying most are done that way. I am saying you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and while it does exist only a MINORITY of the horses are abused.

Again one abused is one too many, but there are methods in place to deal with that and from the article it looks like there may be some improvements in the enforcement as well. That's good.

Nothing in that says it is common or a majority of the horses are abused. That's because they are not.
 
#102
#102
T-TownVol said:
PETA,at its core, is a fine group and does good.......I believe that they have a lunitic fringe that hide behind the organization to push an agenda, not just protect animals. I used to help fund a local group until they started the radical shat. Bringing attention to abuse is great, taking matters into their own hands is another.
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Is the "lunitic fringe" wide spread?
 
#109
#109
6% of shows were attended by Animal and Plant Health Inspectors, yet 49% of violations were reported by said inspectors.

The remaining 94% of shows were inspected by those "in the clique" so to say, and only accounted for half of the violations.
 
#110
#110
Big Orange Junky said:
And again you are leaving out critical parts of the article.

SOMETIMES this method is used.

You are implying most are done that way. I am saying you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and while it does exist only a MINORITY of the horses are abused.

Again one abused is one too many, but there are methods in place to deal with that and from the article it looks like there may be some improvements in the enforcement as well. That's good.

Nothing in that says it is common or a majority of the horses are abused. That's because they are not.
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I never implied "most" are done that way. I said it was rampant. It is. The numbers back that up, especially with the Big Lick horses.

You guys are so defensive, you are imagining more to what I am saying than is there. It IS a problem. That's what I'm saying.
 
#111
#111
Big Orange Junky said:
You disagree with what, that 1000 violations is miniscule or that PETA numbers can't be trusted?
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That 1000 violations is minuscule, and i refute that those numbers were PETA's. You are lumping together every animal rights group with PETA. It's stupid. By your claims of what PETA stands for, that group can't be PETA as they are horse owners themselves.

Quit making this about PETA, the only reason why they're even in this thread is because people have raised their specter as somehow absolving all evidence of soring.
 
#112
#112
IPorange said:
I never implied "most" are done that way. I said it was rampant. It is. The numbers back that up, especially with the Big Lick horses.

You guys are so defensive, you are imagining more to what I am saying than is there. It IS a problem. That's what I'm saying.
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Now I can definately agree that when it occurs it's a problem.

Of course 1000 citations (from your source) in the last year doesn't back up the rampant claim what so ever.

Jtrain, surely you are aware that someone that just wants to find a sored horse (or needs to to justify having a job or getting more funding as a gubment worker) can put a sharp fingernail in it's pastern and make even an unsored horse flinch and get it DQ'd right? Maybe not if you haven't been around horses that much.

I really really like the sniffer, it takes the subjectiveness out of it in both directions.
 
#113
#113
T-TownVol said:
They are proposing changes.....they are a government agency.......they have to keep funding......therefore they "recomend".....your point?
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You could make that argument about anything in government, religion, or in corporations all day long. It's a vague and paranoid assertion.
 
#115
#115
IPorange said:
That 1000 violations is minuscule, and i refute that those numbers were PETA's. You are lumping together every animal rights group with PETA. It's stupid. By your claims of what PETA stands for, that group can't be PETA as they are horse owners themselves.

Quit making this about PETA, the only reason why they're even in this thread is because people have raised their specter as somehow absolving all evidence of soring.
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1000 violations in the entire US for the year is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. Heck if it were rampant you would have more than that in Tennessee in a year.

Yes animal rights groups are by and large PETA in different clothing. The FOSH group even says as much, wanting barefooted horses and saying they are not like PETA because they are not concerned with mouse traps and steaks but only horses. That's from their website. That implies they think of horses like PETA does, they humanize them.
 
#116
#116
IPorange said:
You could make that argument about anything in government, religion, or in corporations all day long. It's a vague and paranoid assertion.
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This is rich.
Seems to me that bringing up PETA has brought the tree huggers out of the woodwork.
 
#117
#117
Big Orange Junky said:
Now I can definately agree that when it occurs it's a problem.

Of course 1000 citations (from your source) in the last year doesn't back up the rampant claim what so ever.

Jtrain, surely you are aware that someone that just wants to find a sored horse (or needs to to justify having a job or getting more funding as a gubment worker) can put a sharp fingernail in it's pastern and make even an unsored horse flinch and get it DQ'd right? Maybe not if you haven't been around horses that much.

I really really like the sniffer, it takes the subjectiveness out of it in both directions.
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How many horses are showed in a given year, in your mind? I'm betting several thousand would be on the generous side. 1000 citations is very high.

As far as USDA inspectors intentionally DQing fine horses: why? What's the motivation?
 
#118
#118
T-TownVol said:
[/B]

This is rich.
Seems to me that bringing up PETA has brought the tree huggers out of the woodwork.
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No one here has said anything positive about PETA. It's a straw man argument that you injected and are now trying to ride it out to be of substance. Good luck with that. Only in your mind does this discussion involve PETA at all.
 
#119
#119
Big Orange Junky said:
1000 violations in the entire US for the year is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. Heck if it were rampant you would have more than that in Tennessee in a year.

Yes animal rights groups are by and large PETA in different clothing. The FOSH group even says as much, wanting barefooted horses and saying they are not like PETA because they are not concerned with mouse traps and steaks but only horses. That's from their website. That implies they think of horses like PETA does, they humanize them.
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this defines this group
 
#120
#120
T-TownVol said:
[/B]

This is rich.
Seems to me that bringing up PETA has brought the tree huggers out of the woodwork.
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I'm not seeing any tree huggers around. Having an issue with the laissez faire attitude towards soring in the training community, as it has been a recurring problem over a long period of time, has nothing to do with PETA or tree hugging, Jessco.
 
#121
#121
There is no doubt that PETA has an agenda concerning the use of any animal for pleasure or work purposes. They are in the business of raising money from those who can be influenced to donate, whether the information is true or not. Most "soring" reports are provided by animal rights activist who want all animals to have the same rights as people. They know the majority of people will not research for themselves, therefore, use any means possible to stir up emotions and get huge donations for thenselve. I have owned Tennessee Walking Show Horses for more than 25 years. I thought there was abuse until I owned a truely natural walking horse. The best of these horses do not need any "help" doing the "big lick". It is just hard to believe unless you witness it yourself. They are a gifted few, just like any gifted athlete. I have spent thousands of dollars to keep these horses healthy and well cared for. You can believe this or not, but in all fairness, visit a training facility and make up your own mind.
 
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#123
#123
IPorange said:
No one here has said anything positive about PETA. It's a straw man argument that you injected and are now trying to ride it out to be of substance. Good luck with that. Only in your mind does this discussion involve PETA at all.
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See post #95....that is as complimentary as I can be of PETA
You do not see that the groups that get all the pub for the small amount of abuse to walkers, are the same as the outfit that you are defending
 
#124
#124
IPorange said:
How many horses are showed in a given year, in your mind? I'm betting several thousand would be on the generous side. 1000 citations is very high.

As far as USDA inspectors intentionally DQing fine horses: why? What's the motivation?
Click to expand...

There are hundreds of thousands of Walking horses in the US.

Well SOME, see I am not going to paint them all with the same brush, but SOME want to see showing done away with all together. That's their motivation. Some have a complex, what's the motivation for being a cop being a jerk when they don't have to be (ticket for 1mph over and such). They want that reputation for being a hardnosed inspector and would rather punnish 10 wrongly than let one get by. Some know that the bigger they can make the "problem" the bigger raise they will get and more funding they will get (see gun control, the next ice age, and other gubment crisis).

But that is only some, just like any population you have different agendas. Some show people sore horses, most don't. Some inspectors go overboard, most don't.

That's why I said I liked the sniffer, it makes the inspection process less subjective and more objective.
 
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