The Problem of Whiteness

#753
#753
Madscientistvol said:
You should actually read what the reparations for the Japanese were before parroting it and using it as an argument for Slavery reparations. Only Japanese American citizens who were actually held and were citizens were eligible for this. This affected the actual people the US wronged.

The US didn't free slaves for free. We waged the bloodiest war we've ever had to settle the issue, then occupied the south to ensure that it actually happened.
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Well isn't that a lovely lie. The civil war was not waged to free slaves genius. According to Lincoln's own words it was waged to keep the union together. The South seceded from the North, the North wasn't going to have that so they fought a war to keep the union together. Lincoln himself said he would have kept the union together above else with or without slavery. See here: Lincoln: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." @ AMERICAN DIGEST

So please drop this mythology that hundreds of thousands of white men died to free black people. No they didn't. They died to keep their nation from fracturing apart.

If the North truly cared about black people's well-being, you really believe black people would have been discriminated for 100 years after slavery the way they were if the civil war was really some altruistic fight to free slaves? Hell no.
 
#754
#754
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Well isn't that a lovely lie. The civil war was not waged to free slaves genius. According to Lincoln's own words it was waged to keep the union together. The South seceded from the North, the North wasn't going to have that so they fought a war to keep the union together. Lincoln himself said he would have kept the union together above else with or without slavery. See here: Lincoln: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." @ AMERICAN DIGEST

So please drop this mythology that hundreds of thousands of white men died to free black people. No they didn't. They died to keep their nation from fracturing apart.

If the North truly cared about black people's well-being, you really believe black people would have been discriminated for 100 years after slavery the way they were if the civil war was really some altruistic fight to free slaves? Hell no.
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You may want to ask: "Why couldn't Lincoln unite the nation by not freeing any slaves."
 
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#756
#756
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Well isn't that a lovely lie. The civil war was not waged to free slaves genius. According to Lincoln's own words it was waged to keep the union together. The South seceded from the North, the North wasn't going to have that so they fought a war to keep the union together. Lincoln himself said he would have kept the union together above else with or without slavery. See here: Lincoln: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." @ AMERICAN DIGEST

So please drop this mythology that hundreds of thousands of white men died to free black people. No they didn't. They died to keep their nation from fracturing apart.

If the North truly cared about black people's well-being, you really believe black people would have been discriminated for 100 years after slavery the way they were if the civil war was really some altruistic fight to free slaves? Hell no.
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A simple "thank you", would have sufficed.
 
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#757
#757
Burger said:
Black people don't value education as much because they think the cards are slanted against them. I would say the cultural issue caused by the perceived inferiority. That would include the culture of the slavery era. It does not help that you guys are victimizing yourselves with the thinking that you guys are inferior.
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And where do you think this perception came from? Maybe from overt racism by white supremacists for hundreds of years?

Just admit it. White supremacy is the cause of the dysfunction in the black community.

Burger said:
Morally, that has to be judged on an individual basis. The Nazi Regime and Idi Amin are representatives of the worst of either race.

Every single race has trade offs due to genetics. Generally Asians are smart, but aren't going to run a 4.4 40. Humans have small insignificant variations that make a difference. There's a reason most business people are white and most great athletes are black. There's nothing we can do about macroevolution. That doesn't mean black people are dumb, or white people can't jump. But the potentials in different traits are different. Also, Street smarts are a lot different than book smarts. Saying we are all equal is just naive.

I don't think blacks are hitting their fullest potential because of that cultural problem. There is no amount of money or government pandering that is going to fix that. It has to start within their own community.

The actual African history you're talking about. The Songhai were actually Arabian, but the Zulu were African. African history is not my wheelhouse at all.
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LOL. Why am I not surprised. At the root of you believe in genetic superiority and inferiority just as I expected.

So why all the other crap when you truly believe this is simply an issue of black genetic inferiority?

Just come out and say you believe black people are genetically predisposed to be intellectually and morally inferior to whites. Cause that is what white supremacy is all about.
 
#760
#760
LouderVol said:
D4H a couple questions about reparations.

1. What would reparations actually fix? I know yay money, but what does it fix as far as "structural racism" goes. Does giving blacks money suddenly make slavery ok? Does it make the injustices of the past any less? and do you think slavery would suddenly stop being the crutch used too often?
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Who cares? This is about JUSTICE. I might ask you what executing someone who kills someone actually fixes? We do alot of things as people for the sake of justice and because it is right not because it will fix a problem. When someone loses a loved one, killing the murderer doesn't bring them back. All it does is provide JUSTICE.

And that is what reparations will be. I doubt they fix everything. But it would be justice for the mistreatment African-Americans got in this country.


LouderVol said:
2. You ever seen what poor people generally do when they get a lot of money suddenly? Look at lotto winners. most go bankrupt within 10 years. How would this be any different? I guess they could be set up accounts for private education or house buying but then there would be griping about not actually giving you money.
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Once again the issue here is justice. I never made the argument reparations would solve all the problems black people face. I only argued it was justified given the mistreatment black people have endured and the fact other groups have been given reparations for far less.


LouderVol said:
3. Would you accept the 40 acres and mule deal today? Arable land in the US?

4. There were approx 3.9 million slaves, lets round that up to an even 5. There are almost 38 million AA today. lets round that down to 35. I am doing this to make the math easier. By any judgement it doesnt make sense to give money to some but not others, and this is to make everyone happy. are you willing to take 1/7 of what a slave would have got? Lets say an even 6 acres (rounding up) and you still get a mule. Are you still happy? Is that enough?
5. What about the lives lost? If the US government is responsible for allowing slavery, they should also get kudos for fighting a war, against the white supremacy you hate so much, using predominately white soldiers to die for a cause that ultimately freed the slaves. Then there is also the money they spent to fight the war. more than 6 billion of the times money. Cost Of The American Civil War
no credit for that as well? If you are ignoring/casting aside all the various costs to the US government this starts to look pretty slanted instead of an actual conversation about what will actually fix things.
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Once again I'm not here to argue about the mechanics of the reparations, who would be paid, and how it would be paid. I'm sure there are people who have researched this issue alot more than me who have better ideas of how to do it.

I'm simply arguing that reparations for slavery are JUSTIFIED.
 
#764
#764
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
False. It was actually Reagan in 1988 that finally gave reparations to Japanese-Americans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Liberties_Act_of_1988

So you're wrong about taxpayers at the time paying for anything. It was taxpayers in the late 80s that paid for injustices committed by the US government 40 something years earlier. I'm sure most of the taxpayers in 1988 were not of voting age during WW2 when the internment camps existed (where one could make the argument that voting age adults at that time implicitly approved of the injustices committed by the US government against Japanese-Americans). And for what its worth I don't know why the taxpayers being alive when the incident happened matters. Taxpayers didn't directly commit the incident. It was elected officials that decided mistreating Japanese-Americans was a good idea.

So if the Japanese-Americans can get reparations 40 years after the fact, why can't black people get reparations 150 years later? Why is 40 years your arbitrary cut-off? And don't give me anything about slaves no longer being alive to collect what they are owed. The impact of slavery goes beyond the life of the slave. It has impact the lives of his and her descendants for generations. It is still felt among the descendants of slaves. If the promise of 40 acres and mule had been honored at the time, black people would have had access to generational wealth in terms of land ownership that could have totally changed the destiny of most black peoples lives living today.

Denying the descendants of slaves access to restitution for hundreds of years of free labor is an injustice. If that labor had been compensated to slaves at the time, the reality of life for black people in this country would be radically different. Black people might have actually had wealth they could have passed down to later generations.
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Totally unfounded assumption.

It's not a wealth problem. It's not a institutional problem. It's a culture problem.

40 acres and a mule would have changed nothing with this culture. Reparations today would change nothing because it's not a wealth a problem.
 
#765
#765
PKT_VOL said:
Totally unfounded assumption.

It's not a wealth problem. It's not a institutional problem. It's a culture problem.

40 acres and a mule would have changed nothing with this culture. Reparations today would change nothing because it's not a wealth a problem.
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Bro, Whitey has been holding down the black community for years financially. Geesh, read a book
 
#767
#767
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Who cares? This is about JUSTICE. I might ask you what executing someone who kills someone actually fixes? We do alot of things as people for the sake of justice and because it is right not because it will fix a problem. When someone loses a loved one, killing the murderer doesn't bring them back. All it does is provide JUSTICE.

And that is what reparations will be. I doubt they fix everything. But it would be justice for the mistreatment African-Americans got in this country.




Once again the issue here is justice. I never made the argument reparations would solve all the problems black people face. I only argued it was justified given the mistreatment black people have endured and the fact other groups have been given reparations for far less.




Once again I'm not here to argue about the mechanics of the reparations, who would be paid, and how it would be paid. I'm sure there are people who have researched this issue alot more than me who have better ideas of how to do it.

I'm simply arguing that reparations for slavery are JUSTIFIED.
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You've actually refused to argue that it is justified, beyond saying that reparations in one form or another have happened. But you've actually refused to speak on the moral/ethical nature of it.

How is poeple who have never owned slaves being forced to give money to people who have never been slaves "justice"?
 
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#768
#768
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
And where do you think this perception came from? Maybe from overt racism by white supremacists for hundreds of years?

Just admit it. White supremacy is the cause of the dysfunction in the black community.



LOL. Why am I not surprised. At the root of you believe in genetic superiority and inferiority just as I expected.

So why all the other crap when you truly believe this is simply an issue of black genetic inferiority?

Just come out and say you believe black people are genetically predisposed to be intellectually and morally inferior to whites. Cause that is what white supremacy is all about.
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While I agree with you that blacks have certain disadvantages, as compared to whites, I disagree that white supremacy is the sole issue.

It has nothing to do with genetic inferiority, but there is a cultural oddity within the black community. There seems to be a desire to tear down any black that is successful and that success is built upon education. That attitude has to change. You can blame it on whitey, but that really doesn't change crap, it just shifts blame. Rappers and athletes are idolized for bad boy behavior, but someone that makes it based upon working hard to obtain an education is belittled.

Reparations won't solve anything because reparations have been handed out for 50 years now in the form of affirmative action and other programs that benefit minorities to the exclusion of whites. How much money would it take right the wrongs of slavery in your eyes?
 
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#769
#769
BearCat204 said:
Bro, Whitey has been holding down the black community for years financially. Geesh, read a book
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I know. In schools, life choices, etc. too.

Just a side note, I wonder if he thinks whites have a lower opinion of blacks than other races?
 
#770
#770
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Modern taxpayers should pay for what happened 150 years ago for the same reason taxpayers in 1988 paid for something that happened about 45 years ago. I'm not here to get into an argument over what taxpayers should or should not pay for in a theoretical sense. All I did was present you with evidence of the US government paying reparations to a racial group (Japanese-Americans) for injustices committed against them in the past. If the US government has done it before why not now? Especially when I have cited that there was a deal in place by Lincoln in 1865 to give black people reparations for slavery that Andrew Johnson reneged on after Lincoln was assassinated.



Why did people who had nothing to do with the internment of Japanese-Americans in 1988 have to pay $1.2 billion in reparations? You give me the answer to that question and I'll give you the answer to why people today should pay for reparations for slavery.



LOL. Seriously? Are you really being serious here? :eek:lol:

Indentured servitude is completely different from slavery. That was a bargained for exchange. Poor whites who lived in Europe but wanted to make the voyage to America agreed to deals with American landowners to work for them a number of years in exchange for a trip to America. See here: Indentured Servants in Colonial Virginia



So you see, there is no comparison between coming to America as part of a contractual agreement for which you will be free once you have paid back your debt and FREAKIN' SLAVERY. I seriously can't believe you tried to make that point. Read a book.



First of all, shelter and food is not compensation buddy. Its an accommodation. Learn the difference. And let me guess? You also think pet owners are compensating their pets when they give them shelter and food? LOL. :eek:lol:
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Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Who cares? This is about JUSTICE. I might ask you what executing someone who kills someone actually fixes? We do alot of things as people for the sake of justice and because it is right not because it will fix a problem. When someone loses a loved one, killing the murderer doesn't bring them back. All it does is provide JUSTICE.

And that is what reparations will be. I doubt they fix everything. But it would be justice for the mistreatment African-Americans got in this country.




Once again the issue here is justice. I never made the argument reparations would solve all the problems black people face. I only argued it was justified given the mistreatment black people have endured and the fact other groups have been given reparations for far less.




Once again I'm not here to argue about the mechanics of the reparations, who would be paid, and how it would be paid. I'm sure there are people who have researched this issue alot more than me who have better ideas of how to do it.

I'm simply arguing that reparations for slavery are JUSTIFIED.
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Again... You've actually refused to have a conversation about why American taxpayers of today should ethically have to pay American blacks of today. All you've done is tell us to replay history.

Of note: I offered other parts of history that could be replayed, which were immoral at face value, and you've refused to comment.

So... Again... If it's about "justice" as you say, then the onus is on you to convince us how we are morally or ethically responsible to pay you. That's the very definition of "justice".
 
#772
#772
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
And where do you think this perception came from? Maybe from overt racism by white supremacists for hundreds of years?

Just admit it. White supremacy is the cause of the dysfunction in the black community.



LOL. Why am I not surprised. At the root of you believe in genetic superiority and inferiority just as I expected.

So why all the other crap when you truly believe this is simply an issue of black genetic inferiority?

Just come out and say you believe black people are genetically predisposed to be intellectually and morally inferior to whites. Cause that is what white supremacy is all about.
Click to expand...

You think everyone is equal genetically?
 
#774
#774
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Well isn't that a lovely lie. The civil war was not waged to free slaves genius. According to Lincoln's own words it was waged to keep the union together. The South seceded from the North, the North wasn't going to have that so they fought a war to keep the union together. Lincoln himself said he would have kept the union together above else with or without slavery. See here: Lincoln: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." @ AMERICAN DIGEST

So please drop this mythology that hundreds of thousands of white men died to free black people. No they didn't. They died to keep their nation from fracturing apart.

If the North truly cared about black people's well-being, you really believe black people would have been discriminated for 100 years after slavery the way they were if the civil war was really some altruistic fight to free slaves? Hell no.
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Does that mean that Rebel flags aren't racist then. I mean since the civil war wasn't about slavery, the rebel flag is a heritage symbol that all the rednecks have been saying it is then right?

Why the hell did the South secede if it wasn't for fear of the North freeing all their slaves. States rights was the belief that the states had a right to allow their citizens to have slaves, pure and simple.
 
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