The Problem of Whiteness

#776
#776
Orange_Crush said:
Again... You've actually refused to have a conversation about why American taxpayers of today should ethically have to pay American blacks of today. All you've done is tell us to replay history.

Of note: I offered other parts of history that could be replayed, which were immoral at face value, and you've refused to comment.

So... Again... If it's about "justice" as you say, then the onus is on you to convince us how we are morally or ethically responsible to pay you. That's the very definition of "justice".
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Not only that, but he has brought up the reparations paid to Asian's over mistreatment as some sort of proof that we have done it before. The key point he has missed is that those reparations were only paid to living Asians who were personally mistreated.....not their estates nor their descendants. The whole notion that is would be ethically right or a way for justice to prevail to take from people who had absolutely nothing to do with slavery and give to those who were not persecuted. Just makes absolutely no sense and just sounds like a bunch of "everyone owes me".
 
#777
#777
It's a good thing I'm not a prolific typist or I might have a few things to add to this thread.

Since I don't have anything to add, it still is a good read.
 
#779
#779
PKT_VOL said:
Totally unfounded assumption.

It's not a wealth problem. It's not a institutional problem. It's a culture problem.

40 acres and a mule would have changed nothing with this culture. Reparations today would change nothing because it's not a wealth a problem.
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Thank you for being honest about your beliefs. You believe racial inferiority is the cause of black peoples problems in this country. This right here is White Supremacy 101. The belief that black people are intellectually and morally inferior to whites.

I'm glad you're not beating around the bush anymore and being direct. I personally don't like it when white people pretend that this is not what they really believe.
 
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#780
#780
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Thank you for being honest about your beliefs. You believe racial inferiority is the cause of black peoples problems in this country. This right here is White Supremacy 101. The belief that black people are intellectually and morally inferior to whites.

I'm glad you're not beating around the bush anymore and being direct. I personally don't like it when white people pretend that this is not what they really believe.
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You're like lawgator. You throw a bunch of stuff out there and see who bites.

Good job.
 
#781
#781
BigOrangeTrain said:
I wonder if D4H thinks Native Americans deserve reparations?
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Absolutely.

And they have received some reparations. Check my earlier posts they included a link for all the groups that have received reparations from the US government and it includes several Native American tribes.
 
#782
#782
Orange_Crush said:
You've actually refused to argue that it is justified, beyond saying that reparations in one form or another have happened. But you've actually refused to speak on the moral/ethical nature of it.

How is people who have never owned slaves being forced to give money to people who have never been slaves "justice"?
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Its interesting to me that you are choosing to apply a different standard here to deny black people reparations for the mistreatment they have faced in this country that was not applied to anyone else. History alone justifies reparations for slavery. The US government initially agreed to pay reparations in 1865 (see my post earlier that included a link to the famous "40 acres and a mule deal"). However, Andrew Johnson (a southerner) reneged on the deal after Abraham Lincoln was assassination. If the US government thought black people deserved reparations in 1865 for slavery, why would it suddenly not be "justice" now?

But I will humor you anyway. Why is it that people who had nothing to do with the internment of Japanese-Americans had to pay reparations in 1988? Why is it that people who had nothing to do with the mistreatment of Native Americans had to pay reparations to different Native American tribes multiple times through history? We are talking about the responsibility of government here. Not individuals. You are the one that is trying to make this into an individual thing. Slavery was not an individual thing. It was a state sanctioned practice. If the US government didn't sanction it, it would not have existed. There were many countries around the world at that time (like England) that did not sanction slavery. So you can't just play this off as simply individual slave owners mistreating individual black people. This was state sanctioned racial oppression.
 
#783
#783
Burger said:
You think everyone is equal genetically?
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Of course. I'm not a textbook definition racist like you.

Obviously there are differences WITHIN groups. Some people are taller, some are shorter. But with regard to groups we call "races" of course there are no genetic differences. We are all the same species. The different "races" are just social constructs created by people because of our cosmetic differences such as skin color that are the result of environmental adaptation.

But the idea that there are genetic differences between "races" is not true. Its just the belief of white supremacists and racists alike.
 
#784
#784
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Its interesting to me that you are choosing to apply a different standard here to deny black people reparations for the mistreatment they have faced in this country that was not applied to anyone else. History alone justifies reparations for slavery. The US government initially agreed to pay reparations in 1865 (see my post earlier that included a link to the famous "40 acres and a mule deal"). However, Andrew Johnson (a southerner) reneged on the deal after Abraham Lincoln was assassination. If the US government thought black people deserved reparations in 1865 for slavery, why would it suddenly not be "justice" now?

But I will humor you anyway. Why is it that people who had nothing to do with the internment of Japanese-Americans had to pay reparations in 1988? Why is it that people who had nothing to do with the mistreatment of Native Americans had to pay reparations to different Native American tribes multiple times through history? We are talking about the responsibility of government here. Not individuals. You are the one that is trying to make this into an individual thing. Slavery was not an individual thing. It was a state sanctioned practice. If the US government didn't sanction it, it would not have existed. There were many countries around the world at that time (like England) that did not sanction slavery. So you can't just play this off as simply individual slave owners mistreating individual black people. This was state sanctioned racial oppression.
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How do you propose we identify those eligible for reparations? What would be the qualifications? Surely you're not suggesting just being black is an automatic qualification?
 
#785
#785
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Its interesting to me that you are choosing to apply a different standard here to deny black people reparations for the mistreatment they have faced in this country that was not applied to anyone else. History alone justifies reparations for slavery. The US government initially agreed to pay reparations in 1865 (see my post earlier that included a link to the famous "40 acres and a mule deal"). However, Andrew Johnson (a southerner) reneged on the deal after Abraham Lincoln was assassination. If the US government thought black people deserved reparations in 1865 for slavery, why would it suddenly not be "justice" now?

But I will humor you anyway. Why is it that people who had nothing to do with the internment of Japanese-Americans had to pay reparations in 1988? Why is it that people who had nothing to do with the mistreatment of Native Americans had to pay reparations to different Native American tribes multiple times through history? We are talking about the responsibility of government here. Not individuals. You are the one that is trying to make this into an individual thing. Slavery was not an individual thing. It was a state sanctioned practice. If the US government didn't sanction it, it would not have existed. There were many countries around the world at that time (like England) that did not sanction slavery. So you can't just play this off as simply individual slave owners mistreating individual black people. This was state sanctioned racial oppression.
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So let's do it like we did with the Japanese since you seem to think that is a great example. Anyone who is alive today, who was a slave, should get reperations. The sins of the father are not the sins of the son. You seeem to have this belief that the money would come from the government. That money would come from tax payers who had zero to do with slavery. Zero.

From Wrong To Right: A U.S. Apology For Japanese Internment : Code Switch : NPR
 
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#786
#786
hog88 said:
How do you propose we identify those eligible for reparations? What would be the qualifications? Surely you're not suggesting just being black is an automatic qualification?
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I'm actually for the reparations. Since D4H has stated we're all descendent from Africa, it stands to reason I have some money coming my way.

Now hand it over you racist goons.
 
#788
#788
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Thank you for being honest about your beliefs. You believe racial inferiority is the cause of black peoples problems in this country. This right here is White Supremacy 101. The belief that black people are intellectually and morally inferior to whites.

I'm glad you're not beating around the bush anymore and being direct. I personally don't like it when white people pretend that this is not what they really believe.
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Lol. If you don't see the blatant racism in your own posts...like this gem of a 2nd paragraph, then I don't know what to tell you. Your hatred for whites, and underlying fear that causes it, must make you the most miserable flea on the planet. They say a flea the size of a man could jump 300yds...you must be good for at least 225. If you could just palm a basketball while you were in the air....
 
#791
#791
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Of course. I'm not a textbook definition racist like you.

Obviously there are differences WITHIN groups. Some people are taller, some are shorter. But with regard to groups we call "races" of course there are no genetic differences. We are all the same species. The different "races" are just social constructs created by people because of our cosmetic differences such as skin color that are the result of environmental adaptation.

But the idea that there are genetic differences between "races" is not true. Its just the belief of white supremacists and racists alike.
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Ever watch sports?
 
#792
#792
Questions for D4H
Reparations, how much?
Who would get them?
Would there be some sort of qualifier test to tie them to former slaves only?
What would the mechanism be? I.e. tax write-off,direct payment. Etc?

Short answers only, please.
 
#793
#793
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Who cares? This is about JUSTICE. I might ask you what executing someone who kills someone actually fixes? We do alot of things as people for the sake of justice and because it is right not because it will fix a problem. When someone loses a loved one, killing the murderer doesn't bring them back. All it does is provide JUSTICE.

And that is what reparations will be. I doubt they fix everything. But it would be justice for the mistreatment African-Americans got in this country.




Once again the issue here is justice. I never made the argument reparations would solve all the problems black people face. I only argued it was justified given the mistreatment black people have endured and the fact other groups have been given reparations for far less.




Once again I'm not here to argue about the mechanics of the reparations, who would be paid, and how it would be paid. I'm sure there are people who have researched this issue alot more than me who have better ideas of how to do it.

I'm simply arguing that reparations for slavery are JUSTIFIED.
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usually we execute or put murders in jail so they can't hurt anyone else. if it was a money thing the Clintons could admit to all their wrong doings and play the blood money and go about their day with "justice" served. until the next person is killed. (if you don't like the use of Clintons insert Manson or whatever serial killer you want. and for the record no the clintons aren't nearly as bad as Manson).

the war and ensuing occupation stopped the evil of slavery. it may not have been the goal, but it was an outcome. and then we passed laws making sure it could also legally never happen again. even amended the constitution a couple of times. Seems like the government took steps to provide justice. read up on what happened to most slave owners after the war.

Out of the conflicts on the plantations, new systems of labor slowly emerged to take the place of slavery. Sharecropping dominated the cotton and tobacco South, while wage labor was the rule on sugar plantations.

Increasingly, both white and black farmers came to depend on local merchants for credit. A cycle of debt often ensued, and year by year the promise of economic independence faded.
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America's Reconstruction: People and Politics After the Civil War
 
#794
#794
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Thank you for being honest about your beliefs. You believe racial inferiority is the cause of black peoples problems in this country. This right here is White Supremacy 101. The belief that black people are intellectually and morally inferior to whites.

I'm glad you're not beating around the bush anymore and being direct. I personally don't like it when white people pretend that this is not what they really believe.
Click to expand...

Not what I said but don't let the facts stand in the way of your strawmen.

If pointing out that the black community has a cultural problem that is holding them back equates to "white supremacy", then I might as well be the Grand Wizard of the KKK because I hold that belief more fervently than any other American sociological concept (off the top of my head).

At some point, you and your ilk, are going to have to explain how the wife and best friend, both born very poor in communist countries, with a native tongue other than English, with parents who don't speak English, end up outperforming the average black person born in the US without appealing to massive cultural differences (hint: that's the answer). Poverty? They grew up poorer. Advantages? Their parents don't speak the native tongue and English isn't their first language. Institutional racism? They went to the same schools and outperformed their peers. Same in the workplace.

Then there are the kids I went to school with. When the school published test results by race, Asians did the best, followed by whites, then Hispanics (almost all of whom English is a second language and non-existent at home), then blacks. Same community, same schools, same teachers. You are left with three options:

1) Grand Conspiracy
2) Genetics
3) Cultural differences at home

Take your pick. Anybody with a brain and intellectual honesty knows the answer.

Then again, I'm just a White Supremacist. You know, the same White Supremacist who choose to have a best friend and marry outside of my race. If anything, you'd have to say I'm an Asian Supremacist or self-loathing White Supremacist because I think Asian culture is, on the average, superior; but I'd imagine that doesn't fit into your real agenda which is about how the white man is the devil and the black man is their biggest victim here in 21st century.
 
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#797
#797
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Absolutely.

And they have received some reparations. Check my earlier posts they included a link for all the groups that have received reparations from the US government and it includes several Native American tribes.
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No offense to you, but Native Americans are the ONLY group in America that should be getting reparations.
 
#798
#798
utvols88 said:
Waiting for d4h to accept them as reparations.

LG liked them:

bag-of-dicks_o_618569.jpg
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As reparations? Lmao
 
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#799
#799
hog88 said:
How do you propose we identify those eligible for reparations? What would be the qualifications? Surely you're not suggesting just being black is an automatic qualification?
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I'm sure there is someone who can figure this out. We have immigration information so obviously anyone who came in post slavery wouldn't count. I'm sure there were also records of slaves.

Obviously there will be some schematic difficulties but we can worry about that later. Our discussion here isn't on the mechanics. Its about whether its justified.
 
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