The private vs. public education debate (split from QB thread)

#76
#76
I would say the better education is gained by the student who likes to learn, and has a parent/parents who actively participate in the process. Public/private is largely irrelevant.
 
#77
#77
My point!! Thanks allvol123

I never disrespected public schools in general. My point was simple..... If you live in Memphis, do you want your son/daughter at Mitchell or MUS???? That is a no brainer. Many Mitchell students are great kids that go on to do wonderful things in life. But as a whole, where do you want your kid???

Look at the graduation rates at public/private, ACT scores, college acceptance %'s, fights, gang issues, ect......... That is what I was talking about. Not all pvt schools are better. I can name 15 off the top of my head that are TERRIBLE!!!!!!!! They would suprise many of you. Money does not make a person or school better, but most private schools are better than the majority of public schools.
 
#78
#78
orange+white=heaven said:
I would say the better education is gained by the student who likes to learn, and has a parent/parents who actively participate in the process. Public/private is largely irrelevant.
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True. Except I would not say public/private is irrelevant. Private is generally made up of upper income families, hence people that value education. No different than comparing a public school in a well to do neighborhood verses a public school in the ghetto or backwoods.
 
#79
#79
As a product of both in Knoxville I will say it is what you make it. The best and brightest in my public HS would rival anyone at any school in town. Each also had their share of dumb.
 
#80
#80
allvol123 said:
True. Except I would not say public/private is irrelevant. Private is generally made up of upper income families, hence people that value education. No different than comparing a public school in a well to do neighborhood verses a public school in the ghetto or backwoods.
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Teachers will latch onto a kid who wants to learn instantly. No matter where they find them.

I grew up in the shadow of three of the best privates in the country... Baylor,McCallie,GPS... We could not afford those schools. There is no denying that the facilities inspire awe. It is logical to assume the better education is to be found in those hallways. I'll stick to my point though, because a kid who doesn't want to learn can do that just as well for 40k of their parents money as the same kid in the back of the class at the public school.
 
#81
#81
orange+white=heaven said:
Teachers will latch onto a kid who wants to learn instantly. No matter where they find them.

I grew up in the shadow of three of the best privates in the country... Baylor,McCallie,GPS... We could not afford those schools. There is no denying that the facilities inspire awe. It is logical to assume the better education is to be found in those hallways. I'll stick to my point though, because a kid who doesn't want to learn can do that just as well for 40k of their parents money as the same kid in the back of the class at the public school.
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You're assuming all teachers are qualified and actually have an interest in what they are doing.

I did my public schooling in SC, what a dump of a system. And I can say when I arrived at UT that I made many friends that went to nice public schools in Memphis, Nashville or wherever...I never considered them more intelligent than me but it was easy to see they had a much better knowledge base than me. It isn't really about the kid on the fringes...top of class or bottom of the barrel, they are what they are. It is about the vast majority in the middle and are they being inspired and pulled in the correct direction. Teacher/student ratio alone would be a visible benefit to private schools.
 
#82
#82
orange+white=heaven said:
Teachers will latch onto a kid who wants to learn instantly. No matter where they find them.

I grew up in the shadow of three of the best privates in the country... Baylor,McCallie,GPS... We could not afford those schools. There is no denying that the facilities inspire awe. It is logical to assume the better education is to be found in those hallways. I'll stick to my point though, because a kid who doesn't want to learn can do that just as well for 40k of their parents money as the same kid in the back of the class at the public school.
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I agree.....I'm not talking about the individual kid, I'm talking about the school. Pvt gives more opportunities as a whole.

How many rich kids do you know that are losers? I know many! Money means nada! It's the work ethic and desire of the student that matters. That being said, on average, private schools can offer more than public. As a parent, I want to give my kid the best chance to be successful. In my home town, there are 2 pvt schools. My child will NEVER go to one of them. They are terrible. The public schools are better education wise than the private. The public schools do have the gangs and "other" stuff, but I want the education. My oldest child goes to a private school 30 mins away. It's hard, but it is what is best for him!
 
#83
#83
utvolpj said:
As a product of both in Knoxville I will say it is what you make it. The best and brightest in my public HS would rival anyone at any school in town. Each also had their share of dumb.
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that's my point. the differences are widly exaggerated.
 
#84
#84
BigPapaVol said:
that's my point. the differences are widly exaggerated.
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I agree with you!!!! Why are we throwing barbs at each other???

Can you admit this ONE thing???....... Most (not all) private schools are better academicly than public. I'm talking education only, not the student in general or the family.
 
#85
#85
There is wild disparity in the greater Bham area public schools. Mountain Brook, Vestavia, Hoover (all suburbs but independent cities and school districts) have very strong public schools. The city of Birmingham schools are a disaster - any kid would be better off in an alternative to these (Bham city) regardless of their desire to learn.
 
#86
#86
peaygolf89 said:
I agree with you!!!! Why are we throwing barbs at each other???

Can you admit this ONE thing???....... Most (not all) private schools are better academicly than public. I'm talking education only, not the student in general or the family.
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I've already said that the parents are self selected as caring folks across the board, making private schools better from a performance perspective. However, I believe that the teachers are typically interchangeable because of the lower pay at private joints.

Bottom line, it's more a function of the parents and student capability than anything else.
 
#87
#87
allvol123 said:
I'd put it like this:

If you went to a public high school it is more likely that you encountered crappy teachers that did not give a damn and you were also subjected to an environment less concerned with educating you and more concerned with PC and teacher's unions.

If you went to private school. You belong to parents that most likely place such a strong value on education that they are willing to pay for it out of their own pocket even though they have a right to free education. Additionally, since they place such a value on education they are more likely to participate and be more involved with the school and are surrounded with parents of similar attitudes.
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Then, you would "put it" into two of the most misinformed and delusional paragraphs I've read in quite some time.
 
#90
#90
kiddiedoc said:
Then, you would "put it" into two of the most misinformed and delusional paragraphs I've read in quite some time.
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Really???

What was said is a fact (as a whole and average) not across the board! The comment was NOT universial! Don't read too much into it.

Stupid analogy....but the AFC is the best conf, but the Super Bowl winner is in the NFC! Read ALL the posts before you make an assumption.
 
#91
#91
allvol123 said:
You are free to expound. I don't believe Freak charges by the word on here.
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Your extremism and idealism in this dichotomous representation of public versus private schooling is absurd.

Try this:

If you went to a public high school it is likely that you attended classes with a fairly "real-world" sample and mixture of people with diverse levels of intellect, economic comfort, and race. Part of the knowledge you gained was your experience in relating to, appreciating, and cooperating with them. Your parent or parents saved thousands of dollars a year, which either met the needs of the family or was invested in your future. You had teachers who cared variably about their job, but, overall, chose to teach for less money that they could have made elsewhere because of a love for education and/or children. A few of those teachers provided sparks of motivation and inspiration that have played an important role in the rest of your life.

If you went to private school, you belong to a parent or parents that could afford it and feel that either the private system in your area is stronger than the public, or that sending their children to private school will confer social benefits or prestige. You attended classes with a crowd of children very similar to yourself in repect to intellect, wealth, and race. You had teachers who cared variably about their job, but, overall, chose to teach for less money that they could have made elsewhere because of a love for education and/or children. A few of those teachers provided sparks of motivation and inspiration that played an important role in the rest of your life.
 
#93
#93
kiddiedoc said:
Your extremism and idealism in this dichotomous representation of public versus private schooling is absurd.

Try this:

If you went to a public high school it is likely that you attended classes with a fairly "real-world" sample and mixture of people with diverse levels of intellect, economic comfort, and race. Part of the knowledge you gained was your experience in relating to, appreciating, and cooperating with them. Your parent or parents saved thousands of dollars a year, which either met the needs of the family or was invested in your future. You had teachers who cared variably about their job, but, overall, chose to teach for less money that they could have made elsewhere because of a love for education and/or children. A few of those teachers provided sparks of motivation and inspiration that have played an important role in the rest of your life.

If you went to private school, you belong to a parent or parents that could afford it and feel that either the private system in your area is stronger than the public, or that sending their children to private school will confer social benefits or prestige. You attended classes with a crowd of children very similar to yourself in repect to intellect, wealth, and race. You had teachers who cared variably about their job, but, overall, chose to teach for less money that they could have made elsewhere because of a love for education and/or children. A few of those teachers provided sparks of motivation and inspiration that played an important role in the rest of your life.
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I show no extremism whatsoever. I said it is "likely" and stand by that. Public schools receive public funding and therefore are more constrained. Private schools are funded by the people that attend them for the most part and thus are constructed in a manner more closely related to what the people funding them value. Poor teachers can be discarded much more easily in a private school. It takes an act of Congress to fire a public school teacher. And once again, teacher to student ratios are much more favorable generally in a private school. That without a doubt is a benefit in an environment meant for learning. The public school system is tied to the federal government, that in and of itself gives me enough reason to belive it is and will continue to head down the road of failure.
 
#95
#95
kiddiedoc said:
Your extremism and idealism in this dichotomous representation of public versus private schooling is absurd.

Try this:

If you went to a public high school it is likely that you attended classes with a fairly "real-world" sample and mixture of people with diverse levels of intellect, economic comfort, and race. Part of the knowledge you gained was your experience in relating to, appreciating, and cooperating with them. Your parent or parents saved thousands of dollars a year, which either met the needs of the family or was invested in your future. You had teachers who cared variably about their job, but, overall, chose to teach for less money that they could have made elsewhere because of a love for education and/or children. A few of those teachers provided sparks of motivation and inspiration that have played an important role in the rest of your life.

If you went to private school, you belong to a parent or parents that could afford it and feel that either the private system in your area is stronger than the public, or that sending their children to private school will confer social benefits or prestige. You attended classes with a crowd of children very similar to yourself in repect to intellect, wealth, and race. You had teachers who cared variably about their job, but, overall, chose to teach for less money that they could have made elsewhere because of a love for education and/or children. A few of those teachers provided sparks of motivation and inspiration that played an important role in the rest of your life.
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OH MY GOSH!!!!

Word of the day on Toilet Paper!!!!

You are making way too big a deal out of this. Where do kids have a better "chance" to be successful? Safe schools, better ACT scores, more proactive parents and teachers, ect......

AGAIN!!!!!!! NOT ALL PRIVATE ARE BETTER THAN PUBLIC!!!!!!! As a whole (% wise) they are better! When an average public school has 75% go on to college and a private has 90% at worst, go to college, you tell me!!!!! Not based on $$$$$'s, but based on admitted to college!

When a valedictorian at ????County goes to Vol State and the valedictorian at ????Academy goes to Yale, you tell me what the difference is. AS A WHOLE, not based on individuals. MANY public students would be valedictorians at private shools and are more well rounded students. I'm talking about as a WHOLE! It is not elitist. look at the %'s.
 
#96
#96
I was kidding in my comparison of private vs. public earlier. But here is an actual take since it looks like a good debate in ongoing.

In the public system
1. there are a few good teachers, a few bad ones, and a lot of mediocre ones
2. the students range in ability from remedial to genious
3. 'no child left behind' is terrible
4. once a bad or mediocre teacher is tenured, they go on cruise control until retirement

In the private system
1. there are a lot of good teachers and a few mediocre
2. every year they are evaluated and offered a one year erformance based contract
3. the students range in ability from medicre to genious 4. the class sizes are much smaller so a teacher can help a mediocre student excel where that same student would just get by in a public system
 
#97
#97
allvol123 said:
I find some of your rants about elitism and arguing about which type of school is better private or public along with the fact that you now go to Harvard humorous.
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No, what would have made it humorous/ ironic is if I were to say that my Harvard education is better than one that is attending University of Tennessee or some other public state school for Grad school... I never said this, nor will I ever say this.. Harvard, like most private school systems, operates in a very small bubble that is usually separated from the real world....

Also, it is important to note that the "elitism" at Harvard is much more prevalent among undergrads (where legacies, etc more readily exist) than in the graduate school system...
 
#98
#98
WPAINE said:
No, what would have made it humorous/ ironic is if I were to say that my Harvard education is better than one that is attending University of Tennessee or some other public state school for Grad school... I never said this, nor will I ever say this.. Harvard, like most private school systems, operates in a very small bubble that is usually separated from the real world....

Also, it is important to note that the "elitism" at Harvard is much more prevalent among undergrads (where legacies, etc more readily exist) than in the graduate school system...
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So why did you choose to go to Harvard if you don't feel it offers you a better education. The cheap tuition?
 
#100
#100
allvol123 said:
I show no extremism whatsoever. I said it is "likely" and stand by that.
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And, I stand by that you are "likely" wrong. There are plenty of good, caring teachers in the public sector (who, by the way, make on average 25-100% more than those who teach at private schools). Many (but not all) public schools are well-prepared to find collegiate or vocational placement for their students, as well as assisting with scholarship application. Public schools must meet government benchmarks for educational performance.

I have no problem with people choosing to pay for their children's education in the private sector. But, to say that parents of children who attend private school care care more about their kids' education and are more involved is ludicrous.
 
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