The private vs. public education debate (split from QB thread)

#152
#152
Lexvol said:
I've read most of the posts, and always find this argument to be compelling. For me, I will do everything in my power to send my children to private school for one simple reason, and I don't know that the reason applies nationally, but it is certainly true in KY.

Everything from content to teaching methods in the KY public schools is nothing more than preparation for standardized testing.

I do realize the value of public education. I am afraid that the NEA in tandem with the government has dumbed down its efficacy and potential. Without major reform it is not going to get any better. It is not about the exceptionally bright or motivated student. It is about the average student that needs to learn how to learn. Practicing for standardized tests simply doesn't cut it in that situation.
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Good point about the standardized testing....That is certainly becoming a major problem.. I'm not entirely sure, but are private schools exempt from taking any standardized testing???
 
#153
#153
WPAINE said:
Good point about the standardized testing....That is certainly becoming a major problem.. I'm not entirely sure, but are private schools exempt from taking any standardized testing???
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private schools are not exempt. At the higher levels, the Private schools are maniacally focused on the SAT and they spend absurd hours prepping solely for that since it's such a big deal in the college acceptance process.

While I see Lex's point, all school system are slave to how they are evaluated. Prestigious school entrants are a huge deal for the private guys.
 
#154
#154
BigPapaVol said:
private schools are not exempt. At the higher levels, the Private schools are maniacally focused on the SAT and they spend absurd hours prepping solely for that since it's such a big deal in the college acceptance process.

While I see Lex's point, all school system are slave to how they are evaluated. Prestigious school entrants are a huge deal for the private guys.
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Yes in a private school your enrollment is definitely tied to prestige and your ability to get kids in the "right" colleges. The public schools seem to lean much more on those numbers these days. In KY the teachers I know are made or broken simply based on their kids test scores at the end of every semester.

Here is a prime example. A friend of mine was looking at his child's homework from her fifth grade classroom. At first he wasn't alarmed, then he realized that she was bringing multiple choice homework home every night. Eventually he asked his daughter about how the homework was reviewed in class. It turned out the teacher would give them all the correct answers and have them memorize them.

There was no logic taught, or discussion about how arrival to answers were acheived. They were just given and memorized.
 
#155
#155
Lexvol said:
Eventually he asked his daughter about how the homework was reviewed in class. It turned out the teacher would give them all the correct answers and have them memorize them.
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That is sad stuff right there. Good thing that public school teachers have to be certified, cough cough.
 
#156
#156
WPAINE said:
The Divinity School is certainly different than the other Grad Schools.. It is mixed between people pursuing academic stuff or clergy related work. Also, there are a number of students who are pursuing a second career that choose to go the Divinity School Route (since you can apply religion to just about everything).. Granted, at the law school, business school, etc you have your pompous @$$holes but for the most part you just have a lot of really overachievers....

Also, I kind of acquiesced and accepted the stereotype that many people have of Harvard. But in reality, it is incredibly diverse on many levels. In fact, they have a program where if your parents make less than $60,000 a year combined then you get free tuition, free housing, and I believe even a stipend.

so comparing Harvard with private high schools isn't really accurate. If I'm not mistaken, private high schools aren't offering any type of help to lower income families so that their kids can attend their school. Instead, more often than not, it is wealthy, suburban, white kids... and with that breeds a type of elitism.. That doesn't necesarilly mean that one thinks they are better than someone else, but might be as small as thinking that their education is better than someone else's... Which is what PeayGolf is saying without realizing that his argument is elitist haha.... If you presume that your education is better than someone else's then you have done so by putting forth your own definition of education... But to many people, knowing how to change a flat tire is just as important as reading Hemingway...

My point was that I went to a public school and was still able to attend a university that is PERCEIVED to be one of the better one's in the U.S. (although, like I already mention, it depends on how you define education... for instance, most people up here don't know the first damn thing to do if they have a flat tire, etc), which makes the whole notion that private schools offer a better education than public schools pretty void in my opinion....
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Your education must not have been very good, because you don't understand what I'm trying to say. I 'm not better than you, or anyone, because I went to a private school. Private schools (some....not all) offer better opportunities for students. That is the truth. Some of the new pvt schools with obscure learning methods are junk. The 2 pvt schools in my hometown stink. My rant started because someone here made a blanket statement that Private school students were elitist. That is not true.
 
#157
#157
My son never has to bring any home work because the teachers basically give them an assignment to do in class. If they get it done that is it, if they don't they have to take it home and turn it in the next day. The point here is that when I went to school we had our classwork we turned in at the end of the day and were then given an assignment to take home at least three or four days out of the week. It is a shame the way they have dumbed down our educational system.
 
#160
#160
KB5252 said:
My son never has to bring any home work because the teachers basically give them an assignment to do in class. If they get it done that is it, if they don't they have to take it home and turn it in the next day. The point here is that when I went to school we had our classwork we turned in at the end of the day and were then given an assignment to take home at least three or four days out of the week. It is a shame the way they have dumbed down our educational system.
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Hey!!! Make school as simple as possible. Give the students grades so EVERYONE is happy. Maybe we should not have grades, do a pass/fail, so no one is dissapointed in the "letter" grade. We do not want to hurt little Johnny's ego.

You are right. This country and it's education system is a joke! What happened to "if your good, great...if you suck, sorry...."
 
#161
#161
peaygolf89 said:
Hey!!! Make school as simple as possible. Give the students grades so EVERYONE is happy. Maybe we should not have grades, do a pass/fail, so no one is dissapointed in the "letter" grade. We do not want to hurt little Johnny's ego.

You are right. This country and it's education system is a joke! What happened to "if your good, great...if you suck, sorry...."
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some of the more delicious irony I've ever read on this board. Should I assume you were just being clever?

By the by, I went to one of the best graduate private business schools in the country, and grade inflation was an issue there, without a doubt.
 
#162
#162
I'll spill 2 more cents in this forum. The discussion yesterday seemed to veer into arguing over private schooling on the college level. I don't see much of a difference there. By that age, people have decided to value education and their success is hugely dependent on the individual. In other words, I don't immediately assume the Harvard attorney is any more effective than the UT attorney. I would say private schools have a more meaningful impact the younger the student is.
 
#163
#163
Local Board of Education members are chosen by election; State and U.S. Department of Education members are either elected or chosen by elected officials.
 
#164
#164
BigPapaVol said:
some of the more delicious irony I've ever read on this board. Should I assume you were just being clever?

By the by, I went to one of the best graduate private business schools in the country, and grade inflation was an issue there, without a doubt.
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YEA! You and I agree on something!!!!

While we are at it..... What happened to T-ball, youth soccer (no scores), TSSAA having 8 State football champions in a state with very little talent!!!!! PC is a joke.

LIFE IS NOT FAIR!!!!!!! Face it. Some get a deal, some don't. Everyone does not have to win! It is what makes people better and strive for greatness.

Is it fair that private schools (ON AVG...NOT ALL) are better than your rural public schools? NO....but like I said..Life is not fair. 100% TOTAL EQUALITY is socialism....which has never worked. Race, gender, religion, age, sex???, should not be a factor, but not everyone is the SAME!!!!!! Survival of the fittest!!! Those who are strong and smart, will be successful!!!! Overcoming difficulties makes me, you, and everyone better people! Its called life!
 
#165
#165
allvol123 said:
I'll spill 2 more cents in this forum. The discussion yesterday seemed to veer into arguing over private schooling on the college level. I don't see much of a difference there. By that age, people have decided to value education and their success is hugely dependent on the individual. In other words, I don't immediately assume the Harvard attorney is any more effective than the UT attorney. I would say private schools have a more meaningful impact the younger the student is.
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AMEN!

Sorry....PC will not allow me to say that! I did go to a private school, which allows prayer. Public schools do not??? WT??????
 
#166
#166
kiddiedoc said:
Local Board of Education members are chosen by election; State and U.S. Department of Education members are either elected or chosen by elected officials.
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There was equal parts sarcasm and truth to my reply. You are right they are elected or appointed by someone who was. It just seems that many times they vote for things well intentioned but very detrimental. Either that or they have compromised themselves with special interest that has their own agenda.
 
#167
#167
KB5252 said:
There was equal parts sarcasm and truth to my reply. You are right they are elected or appointed by someone who was. It just seems that many times they vote for things well intentioned but very detrimental. Either that or they have compromised themselves with special interest that has their own agenda.
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DUDE!! It's called politics! My Uncle ran for Gov and US Senate in Tennessee. He told me years later that politics is a "COMPLETE JOKE! Stay away from it at all costs!" His ideas were radical, and there was NO chance for him to win.......so his views were biased, but........some things seem fair, but will never be allowed.
 
#168
#168
This is my one issue that I guess labels me as a liberal.

I hate the White Flight institutions (I refuse to call them Private Schools....many started right after integration for all the wrong reasons...lots of these places were founded in the late 1960's to mid-1970's.......HMMMMM).

They played an all-star role in killing the urban public school system in every fascet, all the way down to athletics in those areas. When the mayor's kids and the senator's kids stopped going to public schools, so did their concerns for what was going on there.
 
#170
#170
allvol123 said:
Yes, your point is proven by the lack of funding the public education system gets.
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Money is not a cure-all. When activists have a vested interest (i.e. children involved in this case), they demand excellence and have the clout to push for it.

People in Orange Mound and Shelby Bottoms don't have the political or economic clout, and most don't have the time, to make teachers and school administrators more accountable on education.
 
#171
#171
Never said money was a cure all. Just that your idea that mayors and senators stopped caring is wrong. If they did, they would stop funding it altogether. Not continue to give it more and more money.

As for your "they don't have time" in your post above. I'll resist even going there. People have time for what they value.
 
#172
#172
allvol123 said:
Never said money was a cure all. Just that your idea that mayors and senators stopped caring is wrong. If they did, they would stop funding it altogether. Not continue to give it more and more money.

As for your "they don't have time" in your post above. I'll resist even going there. People have time for what they value.
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Hey,

If you're a single mom working two jobs to keep food on the table, attendance at the monthly PTA meetings just doesn't have the same importance!!

I know where you're going with your statement, and I don't totally disagree (there are some badly unqualified and lazy parents out there), but what I'm saying above really goes on in a lot of households.
 
#173
#173
Mom does not have to go to the PTA meeting to know how her child's education is going or to show she values education.
 
#174
#174
allvol123 said:
Never said money was a cure all. Just that your idea that mayors and senators stopped caring is wrong. If they did, they would stop funding it altogether. Not continue to give it more and more money.

As for your "they don't have time" in your post above. I'll resist even going there. People have time for what they value.
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I think they absolutely stopped caring. They continue to fund the program because the Constitution mandates it, but they stopped caring about the degradation some time ago.

I would try my best to destroy the union and find truly qualified teachers. Nearly impossible task, but it has to start somewhere. Destruction of the union would be a great start.
 
#175
#175
BigPapaVol said:
I think they absolutely stopped caring. They continue to fund the program because the Constitution mandates it, but they stopped caring about the degradation some time ago.

I would try my best to destroy the union and find truly qualified teachers. Nearly impossible task, but it has to start somewhere. Destruction of the union would be a great start.
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They probably stopped caring on a similar level as the individuals stopped caring. They supply the money...not sure how much more the congressman should do for a family on an individual level. The unions should be destroyed. However, they don't stop a family from educating their child if they truly value it.
 
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