The myth of Pruitt being an elite recruiter

['Boro-vol]

I still think he's the recruiter we thought he was. No coach, no matter how good of a recruiter they are, is going to come to Tennessee given the current state of the SEC and out-recruit Alabama, Florida, and Georgia.

Personally, I think in light of our program being a total dumpster fire for 13 years the fact that Pruitt got the 10th ranked class in 2020 has the 11th ranked class nationally for 2021 isn't bad at all. It's good enough for 5th in the SEC, yet our performance on the field has been something like 12th or 13th best in the SEC since 2008.

At this point, give me a guy who is a dynamite talent evaluator and developer over a dynamite recruiter. It's time to do a Moneyball-type strategy with recruiting until we can get the image of this program restored. I just don't know how in the hell Tennessee can go toe-to-toe with the Georgias and Alabamas of the world right now and consistently win recruiting battles against them. What's our value proposition? Many of these guys can and will get early playing time at Georgia and Alabama too.

Development and scheme. That is how you compete when you are at a disadvantage in talent.

The problem is JP has shown to be no better of a talent developer than the horn-blower was. You cannot name an individual player that has vastly improved in three years under his coaching.

Let's not even talk about scheme and game-management.

 

[05_never_again]

Development and scheme. That is how you compete when you are at a disadvantage in talent.

The problem is JP has shown to be no better of a talent developer than the horn-blower was. You cannot name an individual player that has vastly improved in three years under his coaching.

Let's not even talk about scheme and game-management.

I agree. The only player that has clearly gotten better under his coaching has been Darrell Taylor, and you could argue Nigel Warrior. Nobody else has. And neither one of those guys got vastly better - they went from being anonymous (or known for the wrong reasons) to somewhat productive guys.

The title of the thread is "the myth of Pruitt being an elite recruiter." Given where we are, I actually think his recruiting has been really good. I don't think that's the problem - the problem is that despite his better pedigree, he hasn't shown to be any better of a developer than Butch.

 

['Boro-vol]

I agree. The only player that has clearly gotten better under his coaching has been Darrell Taylor, and you could argue Nigel Warrior. Nobody else has. And neither one of those guys got vastly better - they went from being anonymous (or known for the wrong reasons) to somewhat productive guys.

The title of the thread is "the myth of Pruitt being an elite recruiter." Given where we are, I actually think his recruiting has been really good. I don't think that's the problem - the problem is that despite his better pedigree, he hasn't shown to be any better of a developer than Butch.

I don't have the numbers...but I believe somebody recently showed where his recruiting has been right on par with the last two coaches. If memory serves, other than a few outlier top 3 classes dating back to Fulmer, it's about where Tennessee always recruits. It seem like you and I could get our buddies together and recruit Tennessee to the middle of the SEC pretty regularly. There is a lot to sell here, even if we are experiencing a slump. History, facilities, quality of life, SEC, television, Alumni support etc. I'm not sure it takes an elite recruiter to recruit well here...especially with the improvement in talent in the Nashville area. You're within 500 miles of some of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country...and you have the largest recruiting budget in the SEC, if not the country.

Sorry...with all of that, mid-pack in the conference is hardly elite.

 

[DiderotsGhost]

I don't think that's the problem - the problem is that despite his better pedigree, he hasn't shown to be any better of a developer than Butch.

I don't agree with this. I think he's been much better at developing talent than Butch.

The problem IMO is almost solely his stubborn allegiance to JG as QB. If Trevor Lawrence was our QB, we're 5-2 at worst; maybe even 6-1 or 7-0.

Defense isn't playing spectacular, but look at the other SEC defenses. Outside of Georgia, our D has been one of the better ones in the conference.

Eric Gray looked downright Kamara-esque on Saturday. We've got a bevy of good Freshman WRs.

O-line has underperformed somewhat, but still worlds better than where we were in 2018, and that position got hurt more than others by Covid (e.g. Wanya Morris had virtually no offseason).

We're missing a few pieces; like a lot of people have said, we don't really have much at TE.

But really, at this point, bad QB play is sabotaging a reasonably good team. No, it's not national title level or SEC championship level, but this should pretty easily be a 4-3 / 5-2 team right now with even a semi-competent QB. This is why Pruitt's refusal to dump JG is so infuriating. I don't think this is nearly as bad of a team as everyone else does; it just looks bad because we're getting little (or even negative) production from the QB.

 

[VolGee4]

A lot of people on here seem to think Pruitt is an elite recruiter but if you look at the numbers, that really isn’t the case. His recruiting rankings tend to be right in the middle of the pack for the SEC, and he’s behind where Butch was at this point in his tenure, and he’s about equal to Dooley. I won’t count the 2018 class for Pruitt since that was a transition year, but according to 247Sports, our recruiting class was 7th best in the SEC in both 2019 and 2020...so basically right in the middle. Our 2021 class is currently 5th but that is a little deceiving because we’ve already filled out 27 spots, while the highest of any team behind us just has 20 spots filled. In particular, Texas A&M is 6th with 9 fewer commitments than us, Auburn is 7th with 14 less commitments, and Arkansas is 8th with 8 fewer commitments. It is fairly likely that we will get passed by all those teams, especially with the way we have been playing lately. So the best case scenario is probably ending up 8th in the SEC for the 2021 class.

People often criticize Dooley for dropping the ball in regards to recruiting, so let’s take a look at his two full classes. In 2011, 247Sports had us at 6th in the SEC, and then we were 8th in 2012. That is an average of 7th, the same as Pruitt through his first two full classes. Finally, if we look at Butch’s first 3 full classes, we were 5th in 2014, 2nd in 2015, and 7th in 2016 in the SEC. Therefore, Butch had an average of 4.7, compared to 7 for Dooley and Pruitt. So basically, my point is that while Pruitt’s recruiting has been decent, it is definitely not elite, at least not to the point it would make up for our deficiencies in coaching and player development. Pruitt would need to be recruiting at a Kirby Smart level probably for it to actually make up for his bad coaching. Also, coaches typically get a bump in recruiting their first several seasons when they can sell recruits on hope for the future and immediate playing time. You have to figure Pruitt won’t be able to do that for much longer and will need to show actual results on the field.

The above is a very surface level analysis. While I wouldn't call Pruitt truly elite, he is better than at least Dooley and probably a better evaluator than Butch. You cited the 2011 and 2012 classes for Dooley. According to Rivals, Cam Clear, Byron Moore, Izauea Lanier, DeAnthony Arnett, Pat Martin were all 4 stars that transferred or didn't do anything. Then there were a host of 3 stars like Tom Smith, Geraldo Orta, Alan Carson, Alan Posey, Christian Harris, Tino Thomas, Trevarris Saulsberry who never contributed either. That's 12 of 27 (nearly 50%) who contributed virtually nothing. In 2012, Dante Phillips, Kenny Bynum, Deion Bonner, Davante Borque, Justin Meredith, Quenshaun Watson, Daniel Gray, Trent Taylor, Cody Blanc, Alden Hill, Justin King (don't even remember him) were all guys who didn't contribute. That's 11 of 22 (50%). That's...not...good. Somehow Rivals had the 2012 class as better than LSU's. Also...the SEC had 2 less teams in 2011. It was in Dooley's last year when we first played Mizzou.

Butch's first couple of classes were good, but he also loaded up in numbers. I really don't care to take the time to analyze them all.

If you just look at Pruitt's track record at other stops, he has recruited and/or supervised (as DC) the taking of really good talent. He was named 2012 National Recruiter of the Year, but let's take Bama out of the equation because it is a totally different animal. He was at FSU in 2013. They signed Jalen Ramsey (first round pick and All-Pro DB), DeMarcus Walker, Marquez White all on defense and were eventually drafted. He probably didn't have much influence on the Georgia class in 2014 as he was hired in mid-January. In 2015, they signed Jonathan Abram (transferred to MSU and plays for Raiders), Deandre Baker (first round pick), Roquan Smith (first round pick), and D'Andre Walker, who was drafted. They also had a couple of good DL that never made it in the NFL.

I believe the 3 star type players that Pruitt has gotten are probably better than what Dooley and Butch got. We found out that Butch made a terrible S&C decision and then couldn't develop players after 2015-2016. I am of the opinion that Pruitt himself is a good football coach but has made some bad coaching hires and has had trouble being CEO. Ansley has not been good, and we apparently miss the technical teachings and development from Rocker, Sherrer, and Rumph. The problem was that they didn't want to recruit as hard as Pruitt wanted/needed. Then, you add that to the decision to send JG out there in every game, and this is what we get.

Deandre Johnson and Kivon Bennett have been developed. Too'too' is obviously good. Our secondary has regressed.

I think our roster is set up to be decent for next year whether there is a new coach or not. Pruitt has worked at getting it better, and it's certainly in better shape than what both Dooley and Butch inherited. The two first year rosters under Dooley and Butch were the worst in my 30 years as a UT fan.

 

[Volfan1000]

The best all time football recruiters Tennessee has ever had were Dickey, Fulmer, Majors and Neyland.

It would have been interesting to see the numbers that those four football coaches would have had if the recruiting rankings were around.

 

[Ten_Titans]

Pruitt is an elite recruiter. Unfortunately head coaches can't be recruiters, so they have to be closers.

It's still hilarious to me Pruitt did not know he wasn't allowed to recruit when he got here. And no one really thought that was a giant red flag. Crazy there are people that think we don't support our coaches enough...

 

[05_never_again]

I don't have the numbers...but I believe somebody recently showed where his recruiting has been right on par with the last two coaches. If memory serves, other than a few outlier top 3 classes dating back to Fulmer, it's about where Tennessee always recruits. It seem like you and I could get our buddies together and recruit Tennessee to the middle of the SEC pretty regularly. There is a lot to sell here, even if we are experiencing a slump. History, facilities, quality of life, SEC, television, Alumni support etc. I'm not sure it takes an elite recruiter to recruit well here...especially with the improvement in talent in the Nashville area. You're within 500 miles of some of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country...and you have the largest recruiting budget in the SEC, if not the country.

Sorry...with all of that, mid-pack in the conference is hardly elite.

There's more to it than just pure numbers. It is better than his predecessors if you consider the pecking order of the SEC now and how we keep getting further and further away from our last successful period. There is not a lot to sell here, relative to our rivals, if we stink. Our rivals also have history, facilities (that isn't a differentiator anymore - almost everybody has dynamite facilities), quality of life, SEC, TV, alumni, etc. Even the early playing time thing is become less of a reason; true freshmen are making big impacts everywhere now, even at top programs. If Georgia, LSU, Alabama, etc. have all of that too, then why go to Tennessee?

2010 Dooley: 7th overall, 3rd SEC (preservation of the Kiffin class)
2011 Dooley: 14th overall, 6th SEC
2012 Dooley: 19th overall, 8th SEC

Average 13th overall, 6th SEC. I forget which class it was, but there was the infamous class where he signed zero offensive linemen too.

2013 Butch: 25th overall, 11th SEC
2014 Butch: 7th overall, 5th SEC
2015 Butch: 4th overall, 2nd SEC
2016 Butch: 14th overall, 7th SEC
2017 Butch: 17th overall, 7th SEC

Average 13th overall, 6th SEC. It looks worse when you consider how many of those guys ultimately left the program. They were also quantity over quality classes; that 2014 class had 32 commits; the 2015 class had 30 commits. If it wasn't for Trey Smith alone, I believe the 2017 class would have been ranked in the upper 20s overall.

2018 Pruitt: 21st overall, 8th SEC
2019 Pruitt: 13th overall, 7th SEC
2020 Pruitt: 10th overall, 7th SEC

Average 15th overall, 7th SEC. The 2021 class is shaping up to be his best (11th overall, 5th SEC), if he can keep it together.

 

[cobbwebb0710]

Anybody that’s paid attention to recruiting over the past 10 years knows you didn’t relish being on the other side of him for a prospect. Even when you landed one, they’d feel bad about disappointing him. Recruiter of the year in 2012. Man’s made a lot of mistakes worth bashing. Let’s not make up crap.

butchna is like the grinch, there really is a heart, buried way down deep inside!
GBO!!

 

[Zues1]

We always hear our " current" coach is hauling in the big time recruits. Boom. He just needs time.

 

[cobbwebb0710]

We always hear our " current" coach is hauling in the big time recruits. Boom. He just needs time.

Exactly! We’ve been patiently waiting for 12 years...
GBO!!

 

[butchna]

butchna is like the grinch, there really is a heart, buried way down deep inside!
GBO!!

You’ll go to Hell for lying!

 

[firedog28]

View attachment 325305

If he fooled anyone at all it was Philip Fulmer.He is the one who got his panties in a wad over Jeremy!

 

[TNnative]

How can Pruitt & Weinke be considered good coaches, just look at JG pathetic QB fundamentals. JG's footwork, or should I say lack of footwork is pathetic for a 5th yr senior, as his starring down receiver something he should have fixed in high school.

Just watch the video of the Auburn touchdown interception. Watch his helmet and you can see he never looked anywhere except at the receiver, easy interception. Even more troubling is look at this feet, he receives the snap not with his feet close together so he can go left, or right, or forward, or backward, or jump if snap is high, but his feet are spread in a fixed position and he can't move from that point, and he can't step up to throw, he is flat footed and relies entirely on arm strength and flinging his hip to generate velocity which is why he is so inaccurate throwing. It is also why he gets killed in backfield, he can't side step the defender because he is in a stationary fixed position, similar to how those plastic toy soldiers were made that we had as kids.

What has Weinke been doing for 2 years?

Note to Weinke, watch how Harrison Bailey does it, great footwork.

Smoke Monday smokes UT for 100-yard pick-six

Thanks for posting, I had not seen it. What I find more unforgivable is him giving up pursuit before getting to the 30. The interception I could forgive. Giving up, I can't. Fun play to watch.. if you are an Auburn fan. Next week, Guarantano needs to assume the Bobby Boucher role.

 

[Undercs]

I’ve really not seen much on his resume’ that even qualifies for an SEC head coaching position. Being the DC at Bama means you implement whatever Nick wants you too or you’ll be canned. Plus, job isn’t that hard when you have elite talent in your 3 deep on defense like JP had

Isn’t this what was said when he was hired. Many on here claimed it didn’t matter.

 

[Vols1313]

A lot of people on here seem to think Pruitt is an elite recruiter but if you look at the numbers, that really isn’t the case. His recruiting rankings tend to be right in the middle of the pack for the SEC, and he’s behind where Butch was at this point in his tenure, and he’s about equal to Dooley. I won’t count the 2018 class for Pruitt since that was a transition year, but according to 247Sports, our recruiting class was 7th best in the SEC in both 2019 and 2020...so basically right in the middle. Our 2021 class is currently 5th but that is a little deceiving because we’ve already filled out 27 spots, while the highest of any team behind us just has 20 spots filled. In particular, Texas A&M is 6th with 9 fewer commitments than us, Auburn is 7th with 14 less commitments, and Arkansas is 8th with 8 fewer commitments. It is fairly likely that we will get passed by all those teams, especially with the way we have been playing lately. So the best case scenario is probably ending up 8th in the SEC for the 2021 class.

People often criticize Dooley for dropping the ball in regards to recruiting, so let’s take a look at his two full classes. In 2011, 247Sports had us at 6th in the SEC, and then we were 8th in 2012. That is an average of 7th, the same as Pruitt through his first two full classes. Finally, if we look at Butch’s first 3 full classes, we were 5th in 2014, 2nd in 2015, and 7th in 2016 in the SEC. Therefore, Butch had an average of 4.7, compared to 7 for Dooley and Pruitt. So basically, my point is that while Pruitt’s recruiting has been decent, it is definitely not elite, at least not to the point it would make up for our deficiencies in coaching and player development. Pruitt would need to be recruiting at a Kirby Smart level probably for it to actually make up for his bad coaching. Also, coaches typically get a bump in recruiting their first several seasons when they can sell recruits on hope for the future and immediate playing time. You have to figure Pruitt won’t be able to do that for much longer and will need to show actual results on the field.

In pruitts defense he told us that he couldn’t teach kids how to tie their shoes so he suggested Velcro, so not surprised he cant teach the game of football

 

[BigBadVol]

He was named National Recruiter of the Year in 2012 by 247Sports.

 

[Power T-Rev]

In all fairness, did he not win recruiter of the year once?

 

[The Original Fade]

He was named National Recruiter of the Year in 2012 by 247Sports.

 

['Boro-vol]

He was named National Recruiter of the Year in 2012 by 247Sports.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

Derek Henry and Jalen Ramsey thinks that Pruitt is an elite recruiter and coach. I think what we are seeing is where kids view Tennessee after 10 years of failure.

This 10 years of failure narrative is BS.

As bad as Lyle Jones was he went 9-4 in back to back seasons just a few short years ago. If he wasn’t an incompetent idiot we would have played for the SEC championship in 2015 and 2016.

Pruitt won 8 games last year and couldn’t move the needle in recruiting.

I think what we are seeing is where kids view Pruitt as a head coach.

 

[MOOOOONEY]

I'm more amazed we have fans that still think "titles" are relevant conversation for this program, considering we've gone 16 straight years losing 4+ games per season.
Where have some of you all been? We have a losing record vs. Vandy in the last 5. Have basically split with Kentucky and SC, and Mizzou still has a game on us.

So many fans have on the blinders and don't see how far down this program was/is. That's fine if you want to think we're still on the level of Georgia or Florida, but we just aren't. Since 1975, Georgia has had 2 seasons they didn't make the Top 25. We've had 7 in the last 15 years. That's not Pruitt's fault..in fact, in 2018 we won ZERO SEC football games. Zero. He elevated that to a winning SEC record in just his second cycle. That doesn't happen by accident when playing the toughest schedule in the toughest conference in college football.

It's fine to have high expectations, and it's fine to call out coaching blunders, but some of you need to reassess where this program is, and where it can realistically go in a league with 10 other schools offering similar resources and motivation. We've been trying the coaching carousel method for the better part of a decade with very limited success.

Literally just beating Vandy is a step in the right direction from where we've been. The whole hiring-hyping-firing cycle is a recipe for losing. Ask us. Ask Texas. Ask Michigan. Ask UCLA. Ask Miami. Ask Florida State. Ask Nebraska.

Perhaps the best thing for this program is to stop with the knee-jerk snowflake routine, cheer for the good times, and provide a little continuity to a program that desperately needs to quit turning over new shiny rocks. We are what we are, but the negative energy some of you losers propagate will be toxic to anyone that takes this job.

The coach fans have spoken. We should be happy beating Vanderbilt every couple of years.

No coach at Tennessee should keep their job when they consistently are blown out by teams with equal or less talent.

This isn’t about getting beat by Alabama or Georgia this about getting embarrassed by Kentucky and Arkansas. No way on Gods green earth does a competent head football coach at the university of Tennessee lose to Kentucky by 27 points at home.

 

[VolInDayton]

This 10 years of failure narrative is BS.

As bad as Lyle Jones was he went 9-4 in back to back seasons just a few short years ago. If he wasn’t an incompetent idiot we would have played for the SEC championship in 2015 and 2016.

Pruitt won 8 games last year and couldn’t move the needle in recruiting.

I think what we are seeing is where kids view Pruitt as a head coach.

We finished strong last cycle and we were landing everyone this spring. Recruiting hit a wall when our play did this year. There's a lot to be upset with, but I don't think recruiting is one of them.

 

[The Original Fade]

I don't agree with this. I think he's been much better at developing talent than Butch.

The problem IMO is almost solely his stubborn allegiance to JG as QB. If Trevor Lawrence was our QB, we're 5-2 at worst; maybe even 6-1 or 7-0.

Defense isn't playing spectacular, but look at the other SEC defenses. Outside of Georgia, our D has been one of the better ones in the conference.

Eric Gray looked downright Kamara-esque on Saturday. We've got a bevy of good Freshman WRs.

O-line has underperformed somewhat, but still worlds better than where we were in 2018, and that position got hurt more than others by Covid (e.g. Wanya Morris had virtually no offseason).

We're missing a few pieces; like a lot of people have said, we don't really have much at TE.

But really, at this point, bad QB play is sabotaging a reasonably good team. No, it's not national title level or SEC championship level, but this should pretty easily be a 4-3 / 5-2 team right now with even a semi-competent QB. This is why Pruitt's refusal to dump JG is so infuriating. I don't think this is nearly as bad of a team as everyone else does; it just looks bad because we're getting little (or even negative) production from the QB.

I see your point, but when you get blown out by KY at home and have lost 5 straight by double digits, you are worse than just bad QB play.

 

[CAVPUT]

I don't think the problem is with recognizing player talent. Coaching talent, OTOH......