The myth of Pruitt being an elite recruiter

#51
#51
BigOrangeMojo said:
Oh come on, you know he is. Hes a very good DC and has been everywhere he's been.

With that being said, being a good DC has no bearing on whether you are a good HC since those roles are completely different.
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Everywhere he has been already had elite talent, at FSU he was average, at GA he was average, the only place he had an elite defense was Bama.

If the guy is such a damn good DC why does our defense suck so bad?
 
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#53
#53
rocky top buzz said:
The only team UT's talent cost them the game was bama. UT had the talent to compete with and beat every other team. Recruiting is important but it's not the reason for getting blasted by KY and AR.
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And Georgia. Florida has more talent but the gap isn’t so large that we cant win - we would just have to play very well and not have those game losing plays (blown coverages that give up easy TDs, JG throwing pick sixes, etc). If we played mistake free ball we should be competitive with everyone not named Bama or Georgia.
 
#54
#54
The Original Fade said:
I don’t think many have called him an elite recruiter
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I am sorry but this is either ill informed or just kinda dumb. Pruitt is making a ton of mistakes IMO but lets not try to re-write history. He was the 2012 24/7 recruiter of the Year and nearly won it again several years. Now you can say it was because he was at championship programs, etc but the fact is, he did recruit and the recruits he put into the NFL (a lot) sing his praises to this day both for his coaching and recruiting skills. So candidly it makes it all the more mysterious - and frustrating - that he is doing so poorly here.
 
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#55
#55
Gandalf said:
I am sorry but this is either ill informed or just kinda dumb. Pruitt is making a ton of mistakes IMO but lets not try to re-write history. He was the 2012 24/7 recruiter of the Year and nearly won it again several years. Now you can say it was because he was at championship programs, etc but the fact is, he did recruit and the recruits he put into the NFL (a lot) sing his praises to this day both for his coaching and recruiting skills. So candidly it makes it all the more mysterious - and frustrating - that he is doing so poorly here.
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Middle of the pack in the SEC the last 2 recruiting cycles. NOT GETTING IT DONE
 
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#56
#56
SalVolinus said:
I'm more amazed we have fans that still think "titles" are relevant conversation for this program, considering we've gone 16 straight years losing 4+ games per season.
Where have some of you all been? We have a losing record vs. Vandy in the last 5. Have basically split with Kentucky and SC, and Mizzou still has a game on us.

So many fans have on the blinders and don't see how far down this program was/is. That's fine if you want to think we're still on the level of Georgia or Florida, but we just aren't. Since 1975, Georgia has had 2 seasons they didn't make the Top 25. We've had 7 in the last 15 years. That's not Pruitt's fault..in fact, in 2018 we won ZERO SEC football games. Zero. He elevated that to a winning SEC record in just his second cycle. That doesn't happen by accident when playing the toughest schedule in the toughest conference in college football.

It's fine to have high expectations, and it's fine to call out coaching blunders, but some of you need to reassess where this program is, and where it can realistically go in a league with 10 other schools offering similar resources and motivation. We've been trying the coaching carousel method for the better part of a decade with very limited success.

Literally just beating Vandy is a step in the right direction from where we've been. The whole hiring-hyping-firing cycle is a recipe for losing. Ask us. Ask Texas. Ask Michigan. Ask UCLA. Ask Miami. Ask Florida State. Ask Nebraska.

Perhaps the best thing for this program is to stop with the knee-jerk snowflake routine, cheer for the good times, and provide a little continuity to a program that desperately needs to quit turning over new shiny rocks. We are what we are, but the negative energy some of you losers propagate will be toxic to anyone that takes this job.
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Spare me the sanctimonious and long-winded BS along with a few catch phrases you picked up watching the news ( snowflake ) and social media Chief.

Have dealt with your ilk on various message boards since the early 2000s regarding the Vols and it is the same tired message at its core, you think you're somehow a better fan because you shake your pom poms no matter what takes place on or off the field.

All I said in that post you responded to was essentially the Vols won't get back to a championship level without better recruiting.

There is ZERO expectation from yours truly that this program will get back to that level under the current regime and that is based on almost 3 full seasons of observation now. Hardly a knee jerk response.
 
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#58
#58
Volsfaninva917 said:
Tennessee won't finish in the top 20 this year in recruiting, which puts them in the bottom 1/3 of the conference. Pruitt and this staff cannot develop, so thats a problem
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I think not finishing top 20 is a bit harsh. Bigger problem is 7th in the SEC.

Currently ranked 10th and most teams behind them won't gain much ground as their classes are almost full.

2020 Football Team Rankings
 
#59
#59
Pruitt's recruiting has been better than Kiffin, Dooley, and Butch, and arguably even late-era Fulmer. Recruiting is not the problem.

No, he hasn't brought in an Alabama, Georgia, or Clemson like class, but that's not going to happen until he proves he can win. But he's brought in extremely good top 10 type classes. Dabo wasn't getting top 10 classes until several years in, after he'd already established Clemson as a national power.

It really comes down to coaching. We have an abundance of young talent. If Pruitt can't win with that talent, then we have a problem.
 
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#60
#60
JonGrudensAgent said:
I think not finishing top 20 is a bit harsh. Bigger problem is 7th in the SEC.

Currently ranked 10th and most teams behind them won't gain much ground as their classes are almost full.

2020 Football Team Rankings
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currently ranked 10th because they have 27 commits, most other teams have 15 or so. Tennessee will tumble come signing day
 
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#61
#61
The Original Fade said:
Middle of the pack in the SEC the last 2 recruiting cycles. NOT GETTING IT DONE
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My comment was not to defend his recruiting while at UT (tho reasonably good really) - but to point out you simply cannot say he was not a great recruiter before he got here. That doesnt jive with the facts.
 
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#62
#62
Volsfaninva917 said:
currently ranked 10th because they have 27 commits, most other teams have 15 or so. Tennessee will tumble come signing day
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#10 through #20 on 24/7 in the link I sent have between 20 and 25 commits.

They could gain some ground for sure but I am not expecting a finish outside the top 20 for TN.

JMO ...we can agree to disagree.
 
#63
#63
We absolutely have better recruits than we did with either Dooley or Butch. Dooley was a dufus and Butch was a star gazer (taking players at positions just because of the stars whether we needed them or not). Our OL is light years ahead of every one we have had since Fulmer. The talent is at UT to be competing with FL/GA. Now the coaches have not shown they can make that talent better.
 
#64
#64
JonGrudensAgent said:
#10 through #20 on 24/7 in the link I sent have between 20 and 25 commits.

They could gain some ground for sure but I am not expecting a finish outside the top 20 for TN.

JMO ...we can agree to disagree.
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Pretty much irrelevant as you pointed out we're still bottom half of the conference so it's just a formality
 
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#65
#65
BigOrangeMojo said:
Oh come on, you know he is. Hes a very good DC and has been everywhere he's been.

With that being said, being a good DC has no bearing on whether you are a good HC since those roles are completely different.
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Peter Principle.

It's on display perhaps more in the football coaching world than it is the corporate world.
 
#66
#66
Vols1891 said:
A lot of people on here seem to think Pruitt is an elite recruiter but if you look at the numbers, that really isn’t the case. His recruiting rankings tend to be right in the middle of the pack for the SEC, and he’s behind where Butch was at this point in his tenure, and he’s about equal to Dooley. I won’t count the 2018 class for Pruitt since that was a transition year, but according to 247Sports, our recruiting class was 7th best in the SEC in both 2019 and 2020...so basically right in the middle. Our 2021 class is currently 5th but that is a little deceiving because we’ve already filled out 27 spots, while the highest of any team behind us just has 20 spots filled. In particular, Texas A&M is 6th with 9 fewer commitments than us, Auburn is 7th with 14 less commitments, and Arkansas is 8th with 8 fewer commitments. It is fairly likely that we will get passed by all those teams, especially with the way we have been playing lately. So the best case scenario is probably ending up 8th in the SEC for the 2021 class.

People often criticize Dooley for dropping the ball in regards to recruiting, so let’s take a look at his two full classes. In 2011, 247Sports had us at 6th in the SEC, and then we were 8th in 2012. That is an average of 7th, the same as Pruitt through his first two full classes. Finally, if we look at Butch’s first 3 full classes, we were 5th in 2014, 2nd in 2015, and 7th in 2016 in the SEC. Therefore, Butch had an average of 4.7, compared to 7 for Dooley and Pruitt. So basically, my point is that while Pruitt’s recruiting has been decent, it is definitely not elite, at least not to the point it would make up for our deficiencies in coaching and player development. Pruitt would need to be recruiting at a Kirby Smart level probably for it to actually make up for his bad coaching. Also, coaches typically get a bump in recruiting their first several seasons when they can sell recruits on hope for the future and immediate playing time. You have to figure Pruitt won’t be able to do that for much longer and will need to show actual results on the field.
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I dont see him as anything other than an elite dumbass coach.
 
#67
#67
Volsfaninva917 said:
Pretty much irrelevant as you pointed out we're still bottom half of the conference so it's just a formality
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Yep. Ranking in the SEC is more important.

This program is stuck in neutral if not backsliding further under Pruitt.

Under a normal year, they would be faced with replacing a couple of WRs, half of the O line, and all of the D line for 2021.

Not sure how it shakes out given this is a free pass year on eligibility.
 
#68
#68
hog88 said:
Everywhere he has been already had elite talent, at FSU he was average, at GA he was average, the only place he had an elite defense was Bama.

If the guy is such a damn good DC why does our defense suck so bad?
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He, like Fulmer, has been reliant on having the best talent at his disposal. He's never going to out-develop, or out-scheme the guys on the other side of the field. And it is looking like he is not the recruiter we thought he was.

Homerun candidate...all the way around.
 
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#69
#69
The Original Fade said:
Yes, I realize it’s the SEC. That’s the conference he competes in, which means if he’s not pulling in a top 3 or 4 class in the conference then he‘s building a roster that’s worse than the top half of the teams he competes with. He’s done ok and pulled in some good players, but again, it’s about winning battles against the teams you compete with. National ranking means very little.
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Florida seems to be doing pretty well with basically the same level of talent. They just destroyed GA a few weeks ago despite GA having all time great classes.

Having top 5 overall classes is nice and all, but it doesn't mean jack if you aren't competing for titles. As I've stated multiple times, Clemson consistently has finished outside of the Top 10 in recruiting since Dabo took over, save for about 3 years. Yet Clemson has won multiple NCs, and been to the playoff every year. Sure they play in a weaker conference, but they're also churning out multiple first rounders every year that turn into high end NFL players, so they are an elite team no matter what conference they are in.
 
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#70
#70
Just to clarify my original post, I wasn’t saying that Pruitt has done a bad job with recruiting, just that he’s been about average for the SEC. I’m sure there are plenty of coaches who could have decent success with the classes Pruitt has brought in. There are teams like Wisconsin who consistently recruit lower rated classes than we do but are much better in terms of wins and losses. My main point was that because Pruitt does not appear to be a very good coach, both from a scheming and player development perspective, he would need to be bringing in recruiting classes that are consistently in the top 2 or 3 of the SEC to really have any long-term success here.
 
#71
#71
Will Overstreet called him out on it a few weeks ago. He said there was some kind of myth about his recruiting and supposedly rebuilding the roster compared to Butch. Will said he didn't see any Derek Barnett, Daryll Taylor, Alvin Kamaras, Jajuan Jennings or a Josh Dobbs on this roster.

Dooley level recruiting and Dooley level coaching is producing Dooley level results. I wish we could for once hire a coach that didn't have to have by far the best talent on the field every game in order to win. When you find that guy and he wins you eventually get the most talent too.
 
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#72
#72
hog88 said:
Everywhere he has been already had elite talent, at FSU he was average, at GA he was average, the only place he had an elite defense was Bama.

If the guy is such a damn good DC why does our defense suck so bad?
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2013 fsu defense finished 1st in the nation in defensive efficiency. Stop pushing a false narrative.
 
#75
#75
'Boro-vol said:
He, like Fulmer, has been reliant on having the best talent at his disposal. He's never going to out-develop, or out-scheme the guys on the other side of the field. And it is looking like he is not the recruiter we thought he was.

Homerun candidate...all the way around.
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I still think he's the recruiter we thought he was. No coach, no matter how good of a recruiter they are, is going to come to Tennessee given the current state of the SEC and out-recruit Alabama, Florida, and Georgia.

Personally, I think in light of our program being a total dumpster fire for 13 years the fact that Pruitt got the 10th ranked class in 2020 has the 11th ranked class nationally for 2021 isn't bad at all. It's good enough for 5th in the SEC, yet our performance on the field has been something like 12th or 13th best in the SEC since 2008.

At this point, give me a guy who is a dynamite talent evaluator and developer over a dynamite recruiter. It's time to do a Moneyball-type strategy with recruiting until we can get the image of this program restored. I just don't know how in the hell Tennessee can go toe-to-toe with the Georgias and Alabamas of the world right now and consistently win recruiting battles against them. What's our value proposition? Many of these guys can and will get early playing time at Georgia and Alabama too.
 
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