The Last Dance - A 10-PART DOCUMENTARY EVENT

#601
#601
NashVol11 said:
Also, Pippen, Rodman and Grant all enjoyed their best seasons without Jordan, so what point are you even trying to make?
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Pip's best year was 91-92

Grant was the about the same without Jordan as with. If averaging less than one point more and one rebound more is all you have you aren't making a compelling case.

Yes I will give you Rodman. He was 34 damn years old when they first played together. That is like saying Ray Allen or Shaq had better years without LBJ. Duh.

Also without Mike pushing them Pip and Grant would never have reached that level of play. Lebron had guys that were established come to him or he joined up with them. He did not lead or push guys to improvement.
 
#602
#602
k-town_king said:
Nobody thought Chalmers was a good young player. If they did it was debunked when Lebron came. When he Left Chalmers was damn near thirty. Chalmers was out the league because he was an overpaid 31 year old who had been injured. He played ten seasons. lmao


"Chalmers tore his right Achilles tendon on March 9, 2016 while playing for the Grizzlies. He missed the balance of that season as well as all of last season, before signing back with the Grizzlies on a minimal contract, finding added playing time amid the injury absence of Mike Conley.
"Just getting healthy, really," Chalmers, 31, said of being away from the game last season. "Last year I felt like that I could have come back, but I wouldn't have been myself, I wouldn't have been able to do the things that teams expect me to do.
"So that was best for me, best for my career, just to take the whole year off and really get healthy, and just come into this year with a clear mind, fully healthy and ready to play."


When Chalmers went to Memphis he was the same player. Just like Mo Williams was the same player in Milwaukee with slightly better all around stats. MC got old and hurt. He did not miss playing with LBJ.

Chalmers
MIA- 8.9 ppg 3.8 apg 2.4 rpg
Mem- 9.1 ppg 3.4 apg 2.5 rpg

Its easy to be efficient when one guy is ball hogging so you get a limited number of shots. Most efcient season and best season are not even connected. Huff is an efficiency whore. That isn't new.


Lebron fans are always so ignorant of any context or history its sad. But if you knew basketball you wouldn't be pumping a top 5-10 player as a top three player anyway.
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Same could be said about sucking Jordan off like you constantly do.
 
#604
#604
k-town_king said:
Pip's best year was 91-92

Grant was the about the same without Jordan as with. If averaging less than one point more and one rebound more is all you have you aren't making a compelling case.

Yes I will give you Rodman. He was 34 damn years old when they first played together. That is like saying Ray Allen or Shaq had better years without LBJ. Duh.

Also without Mike pushing them Pip and Grant would never have reached that level of play. Lebron had guys that were established come to him or he joined up with them. He did not lead or push guys to improvement.
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Pippen’s best season was 93-94 when he was third in MVP voting, and it’s really not debatable. The above post is just a long way of saying “yes, that’s true, the best season for all 3 was without Jordan”. Thanks for agreeing
 
#605
#605
k-town_king said:
Nobody thought Chalmers was a good young player. If they did it was debunked when Lebron came. When he Left Chalmers was damn near thirty. Chalmers was out the league because he was an overpaid 31 year old who had been injured. He played ten seasons. lmao


"Chalmers tore his right Achilles tendon on March 9, 2016 while playing for the Grizzlies. He missed the balance of that season as well as all of last season, before signing back with the Grizzlies on a minimal contract, finding added playing time amid the injury absence of Mike Conley.
"Just getting healthy, really," Chalmers, 31, said of being away from the game last season. "Last year I felt like that I could have come back, but I wouldn't have been myself, I wouldn't have been able to do the things that teams expect me to do.
"So that was best for me, best for my career, just to take the whole year off and really get healthy, and just come into this year with a clear mind, fully healthy and ready to play."


When Chalmers went to Memphis he was the same player. Just like Mo Williams was the same player in Milwaukee with slightly better all around stats. MC got old and hurt. He did not miss playing with LBJ.

Chalmers
MIA- 8.9 ppg 3.8 apg 2.4 rpg
Mem- 9.1 ppg 3.4 apg 2.5 rpg

Its easy to be efficient when one guy is ball hogging so you get a limited number of shots. Most efcient season and best season are not even connected. Huff is an efficiency whore. That isn't new.


Lebron fans are always so ignorant of any context or history its sad. But if you knew basketball you wouldn't be pumping a top 5-10 player as a top three player anyway.
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It’s rich hearing about “context and history” from the guy incapable of looking beyond basic box score stats and memes
 
#606
#606
k-town_king said:
Its easy to be efficient when one guy is ball hogging so you get a limited number of shots.
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And it’s easy to put up raw scoring numbers on **** teams with no teammates, like Love in Minnesota, or Kobe in 2006, or Devin Booker, or pre-LeBron Kyrie, or Trae Young, or a million other players throughout NBA history, but that hasn’t stopped you from somehow trying to argue it
 
#607
#607
volsarelife1 said:
Same could be said about sucking Jordan off like you constantly do.
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Aww did I hurt one of the bronsexuals feelings?

Numbers don't lie. There is one goat and there is no logical debate.

One made up things to motivate and win. One made up things to whine about "top heavy af" etc.
One pushed and made his team better and improved his weaknesses to win. One left the team and ran to two of the top ten players in the league.
One had a ton of iconic moments. The Shot, the Shrug Game, The Hand Switch. One blocked a 50 year old Iggy who got 10 inches off the ground and had a bad back.

The only debate is where to rank Kareem, Magic, Bird, Russell, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan and Lebron.
 
#608
#608
NashVol11 said:
Pippen’s best season was 93-94 when he was third in MVP voting, and it’s really not debatable. The above post is just a long way of saying “yes, that’s true, the best season for all 3 was without Jordan”. Thanks for agreeing
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Ok

Anthony davis, Kyrie, Bosh, Wade, Mo Williams, Shaq, Ray Allen, rashard Lewis, Antwan jamison, larry Hughes, Brandon ingram, Lonzo Ball, Rondo, danny Green, rodney hood, Deron Williams, Isiah Thomas, Mike Miller and yes your guy Mario chalmers also had their best year without Lebron. I can name a whole nother team of players the same is true for.

Now lets compare lists.
 
#609
#609
This is crazy. Lebron can finish with the all-time lead in points, be #1 in assists in his era (needs 300 to catch CP3), be #1 in steals in his era (needs 200 to catch CP3), and be #2 in rebounds in his era (needs 2k to catch Pau).
 
#610
#610
n_huffhines said:
This is crazy. Lebron can finish with the all-time lead in points, be #1 in assists in his era (needs 300 to catch CP3), be #1 in steals in his era (needs 200 to catch CP3), and be #2 in rebounds in his era (needs 2k to catch Pau).
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He is definitely durable. He has played well for many years. He and Karl Malone share a lot in common.
 
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#612
#612
k-town_king said:
Ok

Anthony davis, Kyrie, Bosh, Wade, Mo Williams, Shaq, Ray Allen, rashard Lewis, Antwan jamison, larry Hughes, Brandon ingram, Lonzo Ball, Rondo, danny Green, rodney hood, Deron Williams, Isiah Thomas, Mike Miller and yes your guy Mario chalmers also had their best year without Lebron. I can name a whole nother team of players the same is true for.

Now lets compare lists.
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What you’re saying is, “OK, Jordan’s highest-profile teammates put up bigger numbers without him, but look! LeBron’s did too.”

OK, in that case, either:
(a) neither one of them makes their teammates better, based on your points per game standard or
(b) the standard was a stupid one to begin with (especially given the decades of evidence that most players see their scoring numbers decline with other superstars next to them)

You pick
 
#614
#614
n_huffhines said:
Durability, a **** ton of points, and multiple MVP's is all they share in common. Otherwise, they really couldn't be more different.
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You do realize the gap in championships is the same as between Mj and Lebron right?

I guess they are as different as MJ and Bron Bron. Malone played tougher comp. He also won the most games in the 90s.

They do play different styles. As do MJ and Bron.


I guess we only need to compare Bron to Magic. That is the most similar. Magic is more of a winner though. Also a better passer by far.
 
#615
#615
k-town_king said:
You do realize the gap in championships is the same as between Mj and Lebron right? I guess they are as different as MJ and Bron Bron. Malone played tougher comp. He also won the most games in the 90s.

They do play different styles. As do MJ and Bron.

I guess we only need to compare Bron to Magic. That is the most similar. Magic is more of a winner though. Also a better passer by far.
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You realize that doesn't mean they have championships "in common", right?

I didn't say that MJ and Lebron have a lot in common, so no idea what point you're trying to make. We can compare Lebron and Malone all day, but that's a completely different conversation from saying they have a lot in common.

What is Lebron better than Magic at?
 
#616
#616
I still can't wrap my head around the notion that Wade was scoring 26ppg out of his team's 97, and then you add a 28ppg guy in LeBron and a 25ppg (in Toronto) guy in Bosh, and Wade's numbers are supposed to go UP. How, Sway? Are they supposed to score 150ppg as a team? Is everyone else's average supposed to go to zero?

This is one of the dumber critiques of LeBron that I've seen. There's one ball, and someone's numbers were going to decline. If that someone was LeBron, and he dipped down to 17ppg in Miami, people would criticize him for that too.
 
#617
#617
NashVol11 said:
What you’re saying is, “OK, Jordan’s highest-profile teammates put up bigger numbers without him, but look! LeBron’s did too.”

OK, in that case, either:
(a) neither one of them makes their teammates better, based on your points per game standard or
(b) the standard was a stupid one to begin with (especially given the decades of evidence that most players see their scoring numbers decline with other superstars next to them)

You pick
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They did not though. His "highest profile teammate" aka his only All Star teammate averaged one point more than his high with MJ.
Pip 1.0

Grant ( not an All Star with MJ) 0.8

Lets see the differential with Bron. Only All Stars or All Stars the year before LBJ

Kyrie 2.2
Wade 4.8
Bosh 5.3
Love 6.9
Larry Hughes 7.2


I can name many more. Keep acting like 1 point or less difference is the same as Lebron turning good players into bums. MJ allowed guys to flourish while winning. he made guys better.
 
#618
#618
NashVol11 said:
I still can't wrap my head around the notion that Wade was scoring 26ppg out of his team's 97, and then you add a 28ppg guy in LeBron and a 25ppg (in Toronto) guy in Bosh, and Wade's numbers are supposed to go UP. How, Sway? Are they supposed to score 150ppg as a team? Is everyone else's average supposed to go to zero?

This is one of the dumber critiques of LeBron that I've seen. There's one ball, and someone's numbers were going to decline. If that someone was LeBron, and he dipped down to 17ppg in Miami, people would criticize him for that too.
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Well, it happened in a finals and Lebron got crushed for it. They had Marion guarding Lebron with Chandler clogging the paint, so it made sense to feed Bosh and his efficiency was fkn terrible. Lebron ended up with an efficient 18 ppg and all the criticism in the world, while Bosh got a total pass.

Lebron completely took control of the team the next year, and the critics have had to hang onto 2011 for dear life ever since.
 
#619
#619
n_huffhines said:
You realize that doesn't mean they have championships "in common", right?

I didn't say that MJ and Lebron have a lot in common, so no idea what point you're trying to make. We can compare Lebron and Malone all day, but that's a completely different conversation from saying they have a lot in common.

What is Lebron better than Magic at?
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Both Malone and Bron have longevity stats. Both have won big but should have won more. Big strong guys. No finesse to their games.

Wilt is a better comp career wise though for Lebron.


Lebron is a better scorer than Magic. More athletic. That is about it. At one point when he was locked in he was a better defender. not now or the last several years.
 
#620
#620
n_huffhines said:
Well, it happened in a finals and Lebron got crushed for it. They had Dirk guarding Bosh and Marion guarding Lebron with Chandler clogging the paint, so it made sense to feed Bosh and his efficiency was fkn terrible. Lebron ended up with an efficient 18 ppg and all the criticism in the world, while Bosh got a total pass.

Lebron completely took control of the team the next year, and the critics have had to hang onto 2011 for dear life ever since.
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That is not what happened. He choked in the fourth. He was outplayed by JT.
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#622
#622
k-town_king said:
Both Malone and Bron have longevity stats. Both have won big but should have won more. Big strong guys. No finesse to their games.

Wilt is a better comp career wise though for Lebron.

Lebron is a better scorer than Magic. More athletic. That is about it. At one point when he was locked in he was a better defender. not now or the last several years.
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You clearly don't watch and don't pay attention. Even as an old man, he's a dominant defensive presence. I agree he took a few regular seasons off on one end of the floor, which is a strategy that paid off in the playoffs. He was able to carry a mediocre team to the finals in 2018. MJ did 3 straight finals twice and then retired both times. Lebron did 8 straight, and got a little lazy on one end of the floor. It's hard to knock him for that.

1590098008385.png
 
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#625
#625
n_huffhines said:
You clearly don't watch and don't pay attention. Even as an old man, he's a dominant defensive presence. I agree he took a few regular seasons off on one end of the floor, which is a strategy that paid off in the playoffs. He was able to carry a mediocre team to the finals in 2018. MJ did 3 straight finals twice and then retired both times. Lebron did 8 straight, and got a little lazy on one end of the floor. It's hard to knock him for that.

View attachment 281709
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He was much better this year
 
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