The Last Dance - A 10-PART DOCUMENTARY EVENT

[n_huffhines]

What's more impressive? Going to 6 finals and winning them all with 1 formula, or going to 10 finals and winning 4 of them with 6 different formulas? I can go either way.

Phil + Pippen + star PF + shooters

Brown + motley crew
Spo + Wade + Bosh + shooters
Blatt + Kyrie + Love
Lue + Kyrie + Love
Lue + Love + shooters
Vogel + AD + shooters

 

[GAVol]

What's more impressive? Going to 6 finals and winning them all with 1 formula, or going to 10 finals and winning 4 of them with 6 different formulas? I can go either way.

Phil + Pippen + star PF + shooters

Brown + motley crew
Spo + Wade + Bosh + shooters
Blatt + Kyrie + Love
Lue + Kyrie + Love
Lue + Love + shooters
Vogel + AD + shooters

Every year is a little different. Grant was going 15/10. Rodman was probably going 4/15. Toni Kukoc and Ron Harper changed the dynamic too.

 

[n_huffhines]

Every year is a little different. Grant was going 15/10. Rodman was probably going 4/15. Toni Kukoc and Ron Harper changed the dynamic too.

Fair points, but I don't think those are that meaningful of differences. Fundamentally, they were still the same team and had the same identity. MJ and Pip run the triangle on O and smother on D with the best defensive trio in the league.

I counted all 4 Heat team as the same, even though there were several significant lineup changes because fundamentally, they were always the same team.

 

[95 Vol Alum]

There was no reason for the Bulls or MJ to change.

 

[k-town_king]

MJ gets insecure after Lebron's 3rd title and finally green lights The Last Dance.

Lebron responds to The Last Dance with another title.

But why? It's exactly what happened

Not what happened and this was the least impressive and easiest title in modern history.

What's more impressive? Going to 6 finals and winning them all with 1 formula, or going to 10 finals and winning 4 of them with 6 different formulas? I can go either way.

Phil + Pippen + star PF + shooters

Brown + motley crew
Spo + Wade + Bosh + shooters
Blatt + Kyrie + Love
Lue + Kyrie + Love
Lue + Love + shooters
Vogel + AD + shooters

I'll make it easy for you.

100% is more impressive than 40%.

6 titles are more impressive than 4 titles.

Doing it with one team is more impressive than cheery picking All NBA players to play with.

Mike never had a star Pf , He had a star role player at pf. Not one made an All Star team with MJ on the team.

 

[n_huffhines]

Not what happened and this was the least impressive and easiest title in modern history.


I'll make it easy for you.

100% is more impressive than 40%.

6 titles are more impressive than 4 titles.

Doing it with one team is more impressive than cheery picking All NBA players to play with.

Mike never had a star Pf , He had a star role player at pf. Not one made an All Star team with MJ on the team.

Why did MJ wait 18 years and then greenlight TLD within a week of the 2016 title?

If you don't think Rodman is a star, I don't even know why I'm talking hoops with you. He was such a dominant rebounder it was like playing 6 on 5 on the boards. He literally had the production of two good PF's. It's an incredible advantage.

Of course, you don't respect the title. I would have bet all my money you'd take such a strong position on something that nobody can know. You think it's easy for a 1-seed to win a title without home court advantage? Of course you do, because of who won. You think it's unimpressive to stay mentally strong and not crack in the bubble? Of course you do, considering who won.

 

[k-town_king]

Why did MJ wait 18 years and then greenlight TLD within a week of the 2016 title?

If you don't think Rodman is a star, I don't even know why I'm talking hoops with you. He was such a dominant rebounder it was like playing 6 on 5 on the boards. He literally had the production of two good PF's. It's an incredible advantage.

Of course, you don't respect the title. I would have bet all my money you'd take such a strong position on something that nobody can know. You think it's easy for a 1-seed to win a title without home court advantage? Of course you do, because of who won. You think it's unimpressive to stay mentally strong and not crack in the bubble? Of course you do, considering who won.

Rodaman was a celebrity. Not a star basketball player.

He was a great REBOUNDER. So like I said a great ROLE player. He role was rebound and defense. He was great at those things. That is like saying Pat Bev or Marcus Smart is a star because he is a great defender and a good rebounder for his position.

40% to 100%

4 to 6

1 team to three handpicked teams

Two less teams in the league

MJ leading scorer in 80% of Finals games played. Lebron leading scorer in 42%.

Lets not even get into the All Stars played with.

More impressive easily.

 

[n_huffhines]

Rodaman was a celebrity. Not a star basketball player.

He was a great REBOUNDER. So like I said a great ROLE player. He role was rebound and defense. He was great at those things. That is like saying Pat Bev or Marcus Smart is a star because he is a great defender and a good rebounder for his position.

40% to 100%

4 to 6

1 team to three handpicked teams

Two less teams in the league

MJ leading scorer in 80% of Finals games played. Lebron leading scorer in 42%.

Lets not even get into the All Stars played with.

More impressive easily.

Rodman is the GOAT rebounder, 5x champ, 2x DPOY, received 1st team all D honors at SF and PF, and probably a top 5 defender all time, so you can GTFO with this Pat Bev talk. Call him a role player, IDC. I'll take that kind of role player over 95%+ of third "stars" in a trio.

 

[k-town_king]

Rodman is the GOAT rebounder, 5x champ, 2x DPOY, received 1st team all D honors at SF and PF, and probably a top 5 defender all time, so you can GTFO with this Pat Bev talk. Call him a role player, IDC. I'll take that kind of role player over 95%+ of third "stars" in a trio.

So he was a great role player. Exactly and he was old when he got to the Bulls and averaged 5.2 ppg. He was a great role player. Not a star. He hadn't won any awards for four years and was 34 when he came. We might as well act like Shaq was still Shaq with Wade or Lebron.

Lebron has had a ton of great role players that fit his style. Spot up shooters mainly.

Lebron wants the rebounds top stat pad so his role players don't have to be great rebounders per se. He wants guys to knock down shots and defend and he had all time greats like Ray Allen and Mike Miller.

Both had great role players. Lebron had way more All Star and All NBA teammates.

 

[n_huffhines]

So he was a great role player. Exactly and he was old when he got to the Bulls and averaged 5.2 ppg. He was a great role player. Not a star. He hadn't won any awards for four years and was 34 when he came. We might as well act like Shaq was still Shaq with Wade or Lebron.

Lebron has had a ton of great role players that fit his style. Spot up shooters mainly.

Lebron wants the rebounds top stat pad so his role players don't have to be great rebounders per se. He wants guys to knock down shots and defend and he had all time greats like Ray Allen and Mike Miller.

Both had great role players. Lebron had way more All Star and All NBA teammates.

How many rpg did Rodman average in Chicago? What did he do to Malone, the best PF in the league, 2 years straight in the finals? I guess he's old, and wasn't winning awards anymore, so his contributions are dismissed. You had to be there watching to know about it.

 

[n_huffhines]

Malone averages per 36:

'97 regular season: 27.0, 9.7, 4.4, and .600 TS%
'97 finals: 21.0, 9.1, 3.1, and .485 TS%

'98 regular season: 26.0, 9.9, 3.8, and .597 TS%
'98 finals: 22.2, 9.3, 3.4, and .553 TS%

Rodman was the man. If Malone gets close to his averages, they snatch at least one of those titles from MJ. The 1997 finals for sure.

 

[n_huffhines]

There was no reason for the Bulls or MJ to change.

Sure, but I don't think that fact matters to how impressive the feat is. It explains why they did it that way, but that is all. Lebron weathered the most dramatic fundamental shift in the way basketball is played in history. He and his teams had to change, did, and he was dominant throughout. That's incredibly impressive.

 

[k-town_king]

How many rpg did Rodman average in Chicago? What did he do to Malone, the best PF in the league, 2 years straight in the finals? I guess he's old, and wasn't winning awards anymore, so his contributions are dismissed. You had to be there watching to know about it.

Malone averages per 36:

'97 regular season: 27.0, 9.7, 4.4, and .600 TS%
'97 finals: 21.0, 9.1, 3.1, and .485 TS%

'98 regular season: 26.0, 9.9, 3.8, and .597 TS%
'98 finals: 22.2, 9.3, 3.4, and .553 TS%

Rodman was the man. If Malone gets close to his averages, they snatch at least one of those titles from MJ. The 1997 finals for sure.

He was great at his role. Just like Ray and Mike Miller knocking down threes. A great role player.

 

[n_huffhines]

He was great at his role. Just like Ray and Mike Miller knocking down threes. A great role player.

So would you take Rodman in '96 as your 3rd, or Love in 2016? This is so easy.

 

[k-town_king]

So would you take Rodman in '96 as your 3rd, or Love in 2016? This is so easy.

Love. He gives you more overall and was a current All Star six years younger. Almost as good a rebounder. Way better on O.

19 and 11 over 5 and 5 and 15. Ill trade 4 rebounds anyone can get for 15 points and outside shooting with way better passing too.

Love did average 20 and 15 for a season. Also 18 and 14 and 26 and 13.5.

He was an actual star who shifted to a lesser star slot to play with Lebron and the other star who was putting up damn near 30 ppg.

Way more help for Lebron.

 

[n_huffhines]

Love. He gives you more overall and was a current All Star six years younger. Almost as good a rebounder. Way better on O.

19 and 11 over 5 and 5 and 15. Ill trade 4 rebounds anyone can get for 15 points and outside shooting with way better passing too.

Love did average 20 and 15 for a season. Also 18 and 14 and 26 and 13.5.

He was an actual star who shifted to a lesser star slot to play with Lebron and the other star who was putting up damn near 30 ppg.

Way more help for Lebron.

Love was the ish in the early 2010's. The modern era has relegated Love to a 3 and D guy, without the D. You must not even pay attention.

They added Rodman to a team that couldn't get to the ECF and they went 85-15 and won the title.

"Almost as good of a rebounder", LOL.

Love is one of the best of his generation, yes. Rodman is the GOAT. There is no comparison. Love's best year would have been Rodman's 7th best year. He was fighting Robinson for rebounds and got 17 per game. At age 38, Rodman got 14.3 rpg in just 32 mpg.

 

[k-town_king]

Love was the ish in the early 2010's. The modern era has relegated Love to a 3 and D guy, without the D. You must not even pay attention.

They added Rodman to a team that couldn't get to the ECF and they went 85-15 and won the title.

"Almost as good of a rebounder", LOL.

Love is one of the best of his generation, yes. Rodman is the GOAT. There is no comparison. Love's best year would have been Rodman's 7th best year. He was fighting Robinson for rebounds and got 17 per game. At age 38, Rodman got 14.3 rpg in just 32 mpg.

No Jordan came back. Rodman was a nice role players. That is why they had a great record.

Lebron and his ball hogging made Love a 3 and rebound guy.

 

[n_huffhines]

RoDmAn wAs 34 yEaRs oLd

tHe JaZz hAd mUlTipLe hAlL oF fAmErS

 

[k-town_king]

RoDmAn wAs 34 yEaRs oLd

tHe JaZz hAd mUlTipLe hAlL oF fAmErS

View attachment 314382

Was Rodman still making All Star games? No

Were the Jazz guys All Stars? Yes

Was Malone the MVP? Yep

Seems like they were much better age be damned. Lebron is 35 this year too. He is still a top 5 NBA player.

Rodman regardless of age was a role player.

Lebron had way more help.

 

[n_huffhines]

Was Rodman still making All Star games? No

Were the Jazz guys All Stars? Yes

Was Malone the MVP? Yep

Seems like they were much better age be damned. Lebron is 35 this year too. He is still a top 5 NBA player.

Rodman regardless of age was a role player.

Lebron had way more help.

All-stars? You gotta be kidding with this stuff. I'm not going to take all star nods over what I saw with my own eyes. Kobe was playing 26 mpg and was an all-star one of those years. Christian Laettner was an all-star PF in 1997 for hell's sakes. Rodman doubled 2 of the eastern all-star PF's in RPG that year. I think they got that one wrong.

 

[k-town_king]

All-stars? You gotta be kidding with this stuff. I'm not going to take all star nods over what I saw with my own eyes. Kobe was playing 26 mpg and was an all-star one of those years. Christian Laettner was an all-star PF in 1997 for hell's sakes. Rodman doubled 2 of the eastern all-star PF's in RPG that year. I think they got that one wrong.

In REBOUNDS. Great job filling his ROLE as a ROLE PLAYER.

Points? Assists?

Malone and Stockton are all time greats. Top three at their position and in stats.

They, like Lebron this year, were still great at 34/35. So was MJ.

Lebron had more help any way you want to measure it.

MJ had literally one player make an All Star team with him on the team.

 

[volsarelife1]

Can't take this thread saying Rodman was a role player due to defense and rebounding lol.

By those standards:

Harden is a role player (only plays offense)
Curry is a role player (only plays offense)

 

[n_huffhines]

I think you can be a star and a role player. The two are not mutually exclusive. "Role player" is a misnomer usually used to describe guys that are limited in capability with the ball in their hands.

A "star" is a guy who creates a lot of value, regardless of role.

"Role players" go to All-Star games and they get max contracts, so clearly the two terms are not mutually exclusive. Klay is just a 3 and D guy but he's got more value than most 5-tool players.

 

[k-town_king]

Can't take this thread saying Rodman was a role player due to defense and rebounding lol.

By those standards:

Harden is a role player (only plays offense)
Curry is a role player (only plays offense)

Harden and Curry both have been at the top of scoring and All Star votes. They are superstars.

Rodman was a role player who did not even make the All Star game.

Great role player.

I think you can be a star and a role player. The two are not mutually exclusive. "Role player" is a misnomer usually used to describe guys that are limited in capability with the ball in their hands.

A "star" is a guy who creates a lot of value, regardless of role.

"Role players" go to All-Star games and they get max contracts, so clearly the two terms are not mutually exclusive. Klay is just a 3 and D guy but he's got more value than most 5-tool players.

Klay is a 20 ppg scorer and All NBA defensive player. Perennial All Star.

Draymond would be a better comp and Draymond does WAY more all around than Rodman did while being a great defender.

 

[n_huffhines]

Klay is a 20 ppg scorer and All NBA defensive player. Perennial All Star.

Draymond would be a better comp and Draymond does WAY more all around than Rodman did while being a great defender.

I'm not comparing Klay to Rodman, I'm using him as an example to explain that role players can be stars. Yeah, he can get you 20 ppg, he's the ish, and all that...but that doesn't change the fact that he's just a 3 and D role player.