The Bruce Pearl Thread

[CWGvol]

Not sure I agree with your last sentence. Perhaps they are on par with each other, but Sampson has one more Final Four and one more Elite Eight than Pearl, all with Oklahoma, and he was there twice as long as Pearl was at Tennessee.

And I think Pearl would have easily matched that or done more by this time if he were still here.

 

[cncchris33]

And I think Pearl would have easily matched that or done more by this time if he were still here.

Perhaps. Final Four's are rare, especially for programs that have never done it, but he was starting to recruit on an elite level and it was probably a matter of "when" and not "if".

 

[BasketvolsFan]

Perhaps. Final Four's are rare, especially for programs that have never done it, but he was starting to recruit on an elite level and it was probably a matter of "when" and not "if".

He had his shot at a final four and blew it. You have to have a lot of luck to get to the final four. I don't believe there is any reason to think it was a matter of "when" for Pearl. Martin is recruiting at a level now that should allow him to have every opportunity to be successful and be a perenial visitor to the tournament. He will never generate the excitement that Pearl did as he simply doesn't have the salesman personality. However, he is also not likely to ever make the mistakes Pearl made and get himself fired for violations and lying.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Not sure I agree with your last sentence. Perhaps they are on par with each other, but Sampson has one more Final Four and one more Elite Eight than Pearl, all with Oklahoma, and he was there twice as long as Pearl was at Tennessee.

I'm not gonna speculate what Pearl would or wouldn't have accomplished...I'm going off what they did, Sampson had more final fours, more elite 8s and more Sweet 16s than pearl. Therefore, I think it's pretty clear who was the more proven winner.

 

[BasketvolsFan]

I'm not gonna speculate what Pearl would or wouldn't have accomplished...I'm going off what they did, Sampson had more final fours and more elite 8s than pearl. Therefore, I think it's pretty clear who was the more proven winner.

They were two of a kind, Sampson clearly accomplished more and it serves no purpose to speculate on what Pearl may have done. What he did speaks for itself.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

They were two of a kind, Sampson clearly accomplished more and it serves no purpose to speculate on what Pearl may have done. What he did speaks for itself.

I agree.

And I didn't mean to turn it into a who's better...the point was simply, that a guy similar to Pearl as far as winning and NCAA standing goes...still has yet to be a top target for a college program to the best of my knowledge.

The situation isn't common, and Sampson is the closest and best comparison there is IMO.

 

[walkenvol]

However, he is also not likely to ever make the mistakes Pearl made and get himself fired for violations and lying.

Wishful thinking.

No knock against CCM as he may be the most ethical man at UT for all I know, but nobody knows what anyone will do until they are in the situation.

We all know someone who cheated on a spouse who we would have never thought it possible of them before it happened. People do stupid things. Some more than others and some get away with it more than others.

 

[walkenvol]

You realize this crap hit the fan with him AFTER he was hired by IU, right?

Yes the show cause was from IU, however I recall him doing the same things at OU prior to IU and that was why he was hammered so hard as a repeat offender. I stand corrected if I'm remembering wrong and he was clean as driven snow before IU.

 

[cncchris33]

I'm not gonna speculate what Pearl would or wouldn't have accomplished...I'm going off what they did, Sampson had more final fours, more elite 8s and more Sweet 16s than pearl. Therefore, I think it's pretty clear who was the more proven winner.

I didn't speculate either in my response to you. I simply disagree with your statement that Sampson is a "much more proven winner".

As I said, Sampson has exactly one more appearance than Pearl in the Final Four and Elite Eight. You're wrong on Sweet Sixteen appearances though. Pearl has four (one with UW-Milw and three with UT) and Sampson has three (all with Okla).

His efforts are slightly better, but over a career that was twice as long in D1. To me, that puts them on par with each other.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I didn't speculate either in my response to you. I simply disagree with your statement that Sampson is a "much more proven winner".

As I said, Sampson has exactly one more appearance than Pearl in the Final Four and Elite Eight. You're wrong on Sweet Sixteen appearances though. Pearl has four (one with UW-Milw and three with UT) and Sampson has three (all with Okla).

His efforts are slightly better, but over a career that was twice as long in D1. To me, that puts them on par with each other.

Ok so for arguementative sake, they're "on par". Sampson has yet to be a top target for any high major program to the best of my knowledge, I see it unlikely that it will be different for Pearl.

I see him starting off at a mid major, and much following the same path that Bobby Petrino is about to try and follow. I think all these people expecting him in the SEC next year, or another power conference are gonna be surprised.

Jmo

 

[walkenvol]

I agree.

And I didn't mean to turn it into a who's better...the point was simply, that a guy similar to Pearl as far as winning and NCAA standing goes...still has yet to be a top target for a college program to the best of my knowledge.

The situation isn't common, and Sampson is the closest and best comparison there is IMO.

Personally, Sampson offenses were repetitive in nature where CBP's was a stupid attempt to cover up a secondary violation which after a couple of days he came to his senses and came clean. To me, CBP has shown class since in owning up to his mistakes and continuing to support UT.

I would tend to give CBP another chance before Sampson but maybe I'm a little less judgemental than the majority on this board.

 

[BasketvolsFan]

Wishful thinking.

No knock against CCM as he may be the most ethical man at UT for all I know, but nobody knows what anyone will do until they are in the situation.

We all know someone who cheated on a spouse who we would have never thought it possible of them before it happened. People do stupid things. Some more than others and some get away with it more than others.

Every thing you have indicated is true. However, you can generally get an impression on character by the way people conduct themselves. Pearl would be much higher on the list of likely getting himself into the type situation he found himself in than Martin.

 

[cncchris33]

I don't believe there is any reason to think it was a matter of "when" for Pearl.

I'm just giving my opinion. You don't have to like it or agree with it. Your statment is no more provable than mine. Six for six at making the tournament, three Sweet Sixteens, and one Elite Eight. I'd say he was trending in the right direction for a possible run to the FF at some point.

To say he "had his chance at a FF" as if it were only a once in a lifetime shot, and completely ignore the program he was building is pretty myopic.

 

[walkenvol]

I think all these people expecting him in the SEC next year, or another power conference are gonna be surprised.

Jmo

I'm waiting to be surprised and will acknowledge your superior insight when it happens.

The guy is just so energetic and positive that somebody will give him a shot at redemtion.

 

[cncchris33]

Ok so for arguementative sake, they're "on par". Sampson has yet to be a top target for any high major program to the best of my knowledge, I see it unlikely that it will be different for Pearl.

I see him starting off at a mid major, and much following the same path that Bobby Petrino is about to try and follow. I think all these people expecting him in the SEC next year, or another power conference are gonna be surprised.

Jmo

Fair enough. I don't take exception with your opinion of his potential career path from this point. Only the Sampson comparison in terms of success.

 

[BasketvolsFan]

I'm just giving my opinion. You don't have to like it or agree with it. Your statment is no more provable than mine. Six for six at making the tournament, three Sweet Sixteens, and one Elite Eight. I'd say he was trending in the right direction for a possible run to the FF at some point.

To say he "had his chance at a FF" as if it were only a once in a lifetime shot, and completely ignore the program he was building is pretty myopic.

The fact is the program he was building was constructed on sand and was sure to crumble, which it did. If you assume that he was not a cheat and liar, you may be right, but, unfortunately, that simply ignores the facts.

 

[walkenvol]

The fact is the program he was building was constructed on sand and was sure to crumble.

You have this opinion based on what?

He was in on some outstanding tallent when he blew it all up.

 

[cncchris33]

The fact is the program he was building was constructed on sand and was sure to crumble, which it did. If you assume that he was not a cheat and liar, you may be right, but, unfortunately, that simply ignores the facts.

So, now it's ok to speculate on his moral fiber, but not on his potential future success or failure?

Okay.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Personally, Sampson offenses were repetitive in nature where CBP's was a stupid attempt to cover up a secondary violation which after a couple of days he came to his senses and came clean. To me, CBP has shown class since in owning up to his mistakes and continuing to support UT.

I would tend to give CBP another chance before Sampson but maybe I'm a little less judgemental than the majority on this board.

C'mon man.

 

[BasketvolsFan]

You have this opinion based on what?

He was in on some outstanding tallent when he blew it all up.

My opinion was based on the facts that his program fell apart due to his actions. Fact, not really opinion. It had nothing to do with recruiting, other than getting himself involved in trouble with the NCAA that resulted in his being fired and given a three year show cause. The way he functioned, it was going to happen at some point.

 

[BasketvolsFan]

So, now it's ok to speculate on his moral fiber, but not on his potential future success or failure?

Okay.

We don't have to speculate on his moral fiber. He has already clearly demonstrated that to everyone. Apparently, you didn't read my comment. If you ignore that little matter, you can then speculate on his future success or failure assuming that he doesn't get fired due to his NCAA issues.

 

[walkenvol]

C'mon man.

I honestly understand this as what happened...maybe I missed "the rest of the story"?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I'm waiting to be surprised and will acknowledge your superior insight when it happens.

The guy is just so energetic and positive that somebody will give him a shot at redemtion.

Bobby Petrino was pretty energetic too, as was Sampson iirc.

 

[walkenvol]

My opinion was based on the facts that his program fell apart due to his actions. Fact, not really opinion.

Can't have a legit discussion if you honestly don't know the difference between facts and opinions.

The one mistake doesn't undo all the good he accomplished while he was here, taints it a little maybe but its not like he didn't reenergize the program and have the winningest program since Mears. He also worked hard raising money for charity.

Those three facts are not disputable. Now you may have the opinion that his accomplishments were ALL done outside the rules and my opinion is he had the one major lack of discernment. Those are opinions.

 

[walkenvol]

Bobby Petrino was pretty energetic too, as was Sampson iirc.

Not that familiar with Sampson, but Petrino came across as introverted in interviews I saw - nothing like CBP. You have to try to not like CBP.