Stick With Pruitt

#151
#151
hog88 said:
UT isn't an entry level position, its a show or go job.
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I can't disagree with this. But to me, what we hired is a man that is going to struggle to prove that he is a really good coach, in such a short amount of time given.

I'm proposing that we give him more time based on previous great coaches. And I am not saying to give him more time blindly. Meaning that he only has to beat the utep etsu and Charlottes of the schedule. No, he has to beat a few other teams of significance.
 
#152
#152
ksgovols said:
See Mark Stoops at Kentucky. UT would have fired him 3 times by now.

Building a culture for 20 year old kids who have never known a great Vol football team in their lifetime takes more than a couple of years. Particularly with the administration that UT has had.
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So now we’re reduced to following the Kentucky model for success in football? Great.
 
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#153
#153
Steve Spurrier - 4 years as an assistant and 5 years as a head coach. In his 6th year as head coach he won the ACC title. Pretty quick study ole Spurrier was. He is in that realm of Dabo and Urban as far as how quick he proved himself. Definitely not like Saban or Carroll or Belichick.

Anyway, won acc title in his 6th year as head coach then won sec title in his 8th year as head coach. Won national title in his 14th year as a head coach.
 
#154
#154
Alex10 said:
So now we’re reduced to following the Kentucky model for success in football? Great.
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Wildcats are undefeated and ranked...and we're headed for 3-9, 0-16 SEC and the laughing stock of college football. I feel your pain but it is what it is. Can't wait for basketball season.
 
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#155
#155
1974Vol said:
Wildcats are undefeated and ranked...and we're headed for 3-9, 0-16 SEC and the laughing stock of college football. I feel your pain but it is what it is. Can't wait for basketball season.
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Eh their ceiling is still low as a program but yeah they are definitely miles ahead of us, which should never be allowed to be the case. Either way UT football should never use the Kentucky model, if that ever becomes the case we should probably just shut it down. Historically they are nothing and there wildest aspirations are to have anaverage team every 10 years or so.
 
#156
#156
Alex10 said:
Eh their ceiling is still low as a program but yeah they are definitely miles ahead of us, which should never be allowed to be the case. Either way UT football should never use the Kentucky model, if that ever becomes the case we should probably just shut it down. Historically they are nothing and there wildest aspirations are to have anaverage team every 10 years or so.
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We have to get out of this train of thought bro. By your answer i know you disagree with me, but hear me out. When we hire a high potential, relatively inexperienced guy like Pruitt, we gottta give him extra time. If we had hired a Mike Leach, then yeah, I'm all for giving him only 3 to 5 years depending on progress ( or lack thereof ).
 
#157
#157
volsportsfan said:
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Show me this evidence. I have provided evidence already of quite a few top coaches that became proven coaches, but they had a lot more experience than what Pruitt has when they became proven. When they actually won something of significance.
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Most of the coaches you listed at the college level prove exactly what I'm talking about. Your NFL coaches can be entirely thrown out the window, as they are vastly different jobs. I also am not counting their assistant coaching tenure. This is about being the head guy. These guys, off the top of my head, are current top coaches or have been at the top in the last 15-25 years. Not a ranking, just the order I am listing them in.

1- Saban - Michigan State hadn't had a winning record in 5 years, and had just gotten NCAA probation when he took over. In year three he beat #2 Ohio State (much to our delight) and a highly ranked Notre Dame team. 9-2 in year 4. Year 3 at LSU, SEC Title. Year 3 at Bama, NC.

2- Meyer - took over a 2 win Bowling Green team. Won 8, then 9 games his two years there. Utah 10 wins then 12-0 in two seasons. Florida year two NC. Ohio State 12-0, 12-2, NC first three years.

3 - Dabo - 10 wins by year 3.

4 - C. Kelly - AP Coach of the year by year 2.

5 - Franklin - Vandy in the top 25 two times in his first 3 years.

6 - Brian Kelly - took over 4 win Central Mich, 9 wins by year 3. 10 wins in year 1 for Cincy, Big East title by year 3. Notre Dame year 3, NC game.

7 - Dantonio - first coach in 23 years to have winning record at Cincy in his short stay there. 11-2 in 4th season at Michigan State.

8 - Fisher - FSU lost 6 the year before he took over, 11-2 his 3rd year.

9 - Bob Stoops - National title by year 2.

10 - Carroll - 12-1 year three, started 34 game winning streak.

11 - Tuberville - SEC COY year 3 at Ole Miss, Auburn was 3-8 the year before he got there, 9-4 in the SECCG by year 3. 13-0 a few years later.

12 - Richt - SEC Championship by year 2 at Georgia. 10 wins year 2 Miami

I can keep going for a while and I'm sure I missed plenty, but these guys and many more got it rolling quickly at every stop they make. If you can find even a dozen guys who are remotely recent successful head coaches that struggled for their first 6 or 8 years as a head coach then turned it around, I'll be stunned.
 
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#158
#158
volsportsfan said:
We have to get out of this train of thought bro. By your answer i know you disagree with me, but hear me out. When we hire a high potential, relatively inexperienced guy like Pruitt, we gottta give him extra time. If we had hired a Mike Leach, then yeah, I'm all for giving him only 3 to 5 years depending on progress ( or lack thereof ).
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I’m not referring to how much time we give our coach... I’m just referring to the Kentucky model of football in general. They are nothing and they know it, therefore they try hard to have a team every 9 years or so that isn’t an embarrassment to football... I’m not saying we aren’t in worse shape than them for now, just that we should always have our eyes on a much higher goal in general.
 
#159
#159
VolArmy74 said:
Most of the coaches you listed at the college level prove exactly what I'm talking about. Your NFL coaches can be entirely thrown out the window, as they are vastly different jobs. I also am not counting their assistant coaching tenure. This is about being the head guy. These guys, off the top of my head, are current top coaches or have been at the top in the last 15-25 years. Not a ranking, just the order I am listing them in.

1- Saban - Michigan State hadn't had a winning record in 5 years, and had just gotten NCAA probation when he took over. In year three he beat #2 Ohio State (much to our delight) and a highly ranked Notre Dame team. 9-2 in year 4. Year 3 at LSU, SEC Title. Year 3 at Bama, NC.

2- Meyer - took over a 2 win Bowling Green team. Won 8, then 9 games his two years there. Utah 10 wins then 12-0 in two seasons. Florida year two NC. Ohio State 12-0, 12-2, NC first three years.

3 - Dabo - 10 wins by year 3.

4 - C. Kelly - AP Coach of the year by year 2.

5 - Franklin - Vandy in the top 25 two times in his first 3 years.

6 - Brian Kelly - took over 4 win Central Mich, 9 wins by year 3. 10 wins in year 1 for Cincy, Big East title by year 3. Notre Dame year 3, NC game.

7 - Dantonio - first coach in 23 years to have winning record at Cincy in his short stay there. 11-2 in 4th season at Michigan State.

8 - Fisher - FSU lost 6 the year before he took over, 11-2 his 3rd year.

9 - Bob Stoops - National title by year 2.

10 - Carroll - 12-1 year three, started 34 game winning streak.

11 - Tuberville - SEC COY year 3 at Ole Miss, Auburn was 3-8 the year before he got there, 9-4 in the SECCG by year 3. 13-0 a few years later.

12 - Richt - SEC Championship by year 2 at Georgia. 10 wins year 2 Miami

I can keep going for a while and I'm sure I missed plenty, but these guys and many more got it rolling quickly at every stop they make. If you can find even a dozen guys who are remotely recent successful head coaches that struggled for their first 6 or 8 years as a head coach then turned it around, I'll be stunned.
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Right off the bat, you are not including Assistant experience. That has to factor in. We learn to crawl before we walk. Head coach experience is more important, yes, but amount of assistant experience is also important. I don't think many coaches alive would consider their assistant coach experience as unimportant.

Aslo, remember I said a proven coach wins a major conference title or national title. That is my standard because that is our standard as a fan base here at UT. Very few people in this fan base will be happy with only being top 25 ( Butch did that a couple years ), or pulling an upset or two. Make no mistake about it, this fan base wants a conference championship. A coach that doesn't win us the SEC won't make it here. The fans won't allow it. So, a major conference title is part of my standard based on the expectations of the fan base
 
#161
#161
volsportsfan said:
Right off the bat, you are not including Assistant experience. That has to factor in. We learn to crawl before we walk. Head coach experience is more important, yes, but amount of assistant experience is also important. I don't think many coaches alive would consider their assistant coach experience as unimportant.

Aslo, remember I said a proven coach wins a major conference title or national title. That is my standard because that is our standard as a fan base here at UT. Very few people in this fan base will be happy with only being top 25 ( Butch did that a couple years ), or pulling an upset or two. Make no mistake about it, this fan base wants a conference championship. A coach that doesn't win us the SEC won't make it here. The fans won't allow it. So, a major conference title is part of my standard based on the expectations of the fan base
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I'm not factoring it in because this is not a training ground and it's ridiculous to suggest giving a coach 8 years at 4+ million a year here because he should be out being an assistant coach training right now, he's the head coach and should be judged as such. Of course you also suggested that we fired Dooley too soon earlier in the thread.
 
#162
#162
VolArmy74 said:
I'm not factoring it in because this is not a training ground and it's ridiculous to suggest giving a coach 8 years at 4+ million a year here because he should be out being an assistant coach training right now, he's the head coach and should be judged as such. Of course you also suggested that we fired Dooley too soon earlier in the thread.
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I actually suggested that Dooley's performance by only winning 1 sec game each of his last two years warranted a firing. That's how this thread swerved off course a little, me talking about year to year performance. It has to be factored in, but isn't the main point of my discourse. Yeah, i could see how the Administration would have given him 1 more year, but i definitely agree more with him being fired.
 
#163
#163
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Yeah. I sure didn't work for Bama. We could be one hire away from glory. Why you want to sell us short?
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I said coaches, but truly i mean Pruitt. The point of this thread is about the relative inexperience of Pruitt compared to those coaches who went on to prove themselves as really good coaches.
 
#164
#164
volsportsfan said:
Like I said, you are probably right. The man can't just win against the likes of utep etsu and Charlotte over the next 3 years. He will not and should not survive that.

Like I said, this a side discussion I didn't intend and haven't thought much about. What say you? Should he be fired after only 2 years on the job with 0 sec wins?? That's a tough call bro. Haven't really thought about it that much
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If he goes winless THIS season, we should all have serious doubts. If he were to follow that up with another winless season, there is little hope that he can be a good HC. I would pull the plug.
 
#166
#166
EZE said:
If he goes winless THIS season, we should all have serious doubts. If he were to follow that up with another winless season, there is little hope that he can be a good HC. I would pull the plug.
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Appreciate the honesty. Man, after only two years??? arrrggghh... hard call for me. Pruitt has so much potential. Only two years then zappo....i just don't know
 
#167
#167
ptcarter said:
So many here have the pitchforks out after the Florida debacle. I agree with much here. Pruitt has lost 1 SEC game. Only 1. May not win any more this season, but way to early to start looking for something different.
Pruitt has been accustomed to working with top tier players who are physically and mentally capable of taking and understanding coaching and having the desire to improve. I have no doubt that the things that went wrong in the Florida game, were taught ad nauseum in the off season. The talent just isn't there to pull it off.

Take the onside kick for example. Pruitt and staff probably spotted a vulnerability on tape that was ripe for the picking. What happened? The Florida player who recovered the ball had more hustle and ability than those on our side.

Understand - On VolNation, the long knives are out for the head coach even when winning. The negativity coming out after his first SEC loss is very predictable. 3 years from now, it may be warranted, but now is too soon.
As a matter of fact, I'd give him longer than most coaches. Why? Well, we play UGA and Bama every year. RIght now, ranked 1 and 2 in the country and we play them both in the upcoming weeks. Other new coaches don't have that barrier.

I'll hang with Pruitt as long as improvement is being shown. That involves strength and conditioning, film study, attitude and desire to improve and learn on the team.

Did it upset you when he kicked the whiteboard? To me, I see a frustration in leading the horses to water and them not drinking. Do good coaches get mad during games? Check out little Nicky. Not saying Pruitt is Nicky and I don't think he needs to be. But remember, Pruitt is used to being around success. You scold the dog immediately after crapping the carpet. If you wait 10 minutes, the dog doesn't get it.

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**** through a tin horn!!!! OMG that was hilarious!!!!!
 
#168
#168
volsportsfan said:
I think we are selling ourselves short if we don't give Pruitt that 8 to 10 years. Not blindly either. He has to show us a little something along the way, no doubt.
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That's a lot of money to pay out for OJT without significant returns.
 
#170
#170
VOL_Lyfe said:
By that standard, why didn't Jones get 10 years?
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I already addressed that. Butch was, according to his coaching experience at the time, at the point that he should have proved to be a good one. Instead, he crapped the bed, had a midlife coaching crisis, and produced the worst season of his head coaching career.
 
#171
#171
yeah i agree we should keep pruitt for years because he has already proven to be a great recruiter and he put together a great staff
 
#172
#172
Awesome post. The revolving door of coaches has put us here in purgatory. Hopefully Fulmer will be here for a long time, if he is I believe Pruitt will be here for the long haul. Fulmer knows that continuity is a key ingredient to success.
 
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#174
#174
jarnol32 said:
Awesome post. The revolving door of coaches has put us here in purgatory. Hopefully Fulmer will be here for a long time, if he is I believe Pruitt will be here for the long haul. Fulmer knows that continuity is a key ingredient to success.
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Fulmer's fate is tied to CJPs production, let's hope they both deserve an extension after the 2020 season.
 
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