Stick With Pruitt

#227
#227
GBOVFL88 said:
I have to say that the last thing that I want to do is push another coach out before his time. We got a lot of wins out of CBJ and some pretty terrible loses when he lost the team. But Lane Kiffin has done well as an Offensive coordinator at Alabama and now as a head coach at FAU. I am not saying that these guys needed to stay at UT at the time that they were fired, but they are clearly being groomed at other places, which supports the argument that they were hired young and expected to coach at the highest level too early. The bottom line here is that we have champagne taste on a beer budget and need to give CJP time to prove that he is a rising star without expecting a meteoric rise to the top in 2 years.
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We have the money to be competitive with any coach, let's just not waste that money on hoping a coach will eventually get us there if he hasn't shown the ability after 3 seasons.
 
#228
#228
hog88 said:
We have the money to be competitive with any coach, let's just not waste that money on hoping a coach will eventually get us there if he hasn't shown the ability after 3 seasons.
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Agreed, let's also make sure that we measure success properly and realistically. If after 3 seasons we are still playing undisciplined football and not recruiting well enough that talent outweighs mistakes we can make a change. We need to see a big difference in the two deep depth chart, playing through adversity, and smart football. If those things are trending upward, I say we keep him and let his system work.
 
#229
#229
volsportsfan said:
If we had hired a 50 something year old guy like Leach who had years and years and years of coaching experience under his belt, then yes, 4 to 5 years is all you give that man. With all his experience, he either has it or he doesn't by then. But, we didn't hire a Leach type coach. We hired a young relatively inexperienced coach who has shown great promise. Give him 8 years to make us a national power once again
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Give Pruitt. 8 years? Why not 20 years, sheesh we should see some degree of improvement this year and we haven’t seen any so far.
I agree Pruitt needs time, but 8 years is crazy, we’ll have a good indication midway through next season whether he’s headed in the right direction.
 
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#230
#230
GBOVFL88 said:
LOL... Not posting to be liked, just stating facts IMO.
#lubeup #thetruthhurts
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Actually I meant the part about us being on a beer budget. There are some that will straighten you out real quick about that. "We have more money than Bill Gates".
 
#231
#231
Behr said:
Actually I meant the part about us being on a beer budget. There are some that will straighten you out real quick about that. "We have more money than Bill Gates".
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That is where Fulmer can earn his paycheck. If he does what a good AD does and gets the money that we need in the program pointed in the right direction we can sway a lot of recruits toward UT and away from the other Blue Bloods in the country. The rest is up to CJP and the rest of the coaches making young players understand that if they want to play they have to go where they are needed and not to teams like Alabama and Georgia that will have nothing but 4 and 5 star recruits ahead of them on the depth chart. The selling point is that they will never play if everyone on the team ahead of them is a star.
 
#232
#232
hog88 said:
Phil's not firing him because Phil's fate as AD is tied to CJPs tenure as coach.

It really depends on how competitive the games are and who we beat. If we get boat raced by UF, GA, AL, and lose to UK and/or Vandy next year and he follows that up by only winning 1 more game in 2020, yeah he's not the guy and we need to cut bait.
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Yea, that's where I was going. Too many variables to be definitive about how long you give him. But, I'd bet money that matters, Pruitt gets a looong leash and no matter how we've looked, 8-4 in year 3 gets him plenty of more time, whether you, or I, like it or not. Would have been that way with whoever Phil hired. Jmo.
 
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#233
#233
Volunteersforlife said:
Obviously Pruitt could be a terrible hire, and we will find that out in time. But while the improvement will not be immediately noticeable, I think that we will see players actually getting better under Pruitt
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I agree with this, specially on the defensive side of the ball. I think Pruitt will eventually have us playing solid D. The offensive side i'm unsure about. Hopefully this offensive staff and Pruitt has what it takes to eventually put us a good product on the field offensively.
 
#234
#234
GBOVFL88 said:
That is where Fulmer can earn his paycheck. If he does what a good AD does and gets the money that we need in the program pointed in the right direction we can sway a lot of recruits toward UT and away from the other Blue Bloods in the country. The rest is up to CJP and the rest of the coaches making young players understand that if they want to play they have to go where they are needed and not to teams like Alabama and Georgia that will have nothing but 4 and 5 star recruits ahead of them on the depth chart. The selling point is that they will never play if everyone on the team ahead of them is a star.
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GBOVFL88 said:
That is where Fulmer can earn his paycheck. If he does what a good AD does and gets the money that we need in the program pointed in the right direction we can sway a lot of recruits toward UT and away from the other Blue Bloods in the country. The rest is up to CJP and the rest of the coaches making young players understand that if they want to play they have to go where they are needed and not to teams like Alabama and Georgia that will have nothing but 4 and 5 star recruits ahead of them on the depth chart. The selling point is that they will never play if everyone on the team ahead of them is a star.
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I think maybe I zigged when you zagged, cause this is not what I was talking about.

Its all good though.
 
#235
#235
Behr said:
Yea, that's where I was going. Too many variables to be definitive about how long you give him. But, I'd bet money that matters, Pruitt gets a looong leash and no matter how we've looked, 8-4 in year 3 gets him plenty of more time, whether you, or I, like it or not. Would have been that way with whoever Phil hired. Jmo.
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No argument from me there. My fear with Fulmer is he'll be a "just one more year" guy.
 
#237
#237
ksgovols said:
Hell, we fired Fulmer one year removed from an appearance in the SEC Championship game, so I get where some our fan base is coming from. Where has it gotten us in the last 10 years? Going on our 4th coach without sniffing an SEC East title much less a championship. And with Georgia and Florida both down half of those years.

It's stupid to be having this conversation after the very first SEC game of CJP's career. But I expect no less from some of you guys.....
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If you’d read my posts instead of rambling on like a petulant child you’d see where I said Pruitt deserves his time... he doesn’t deserve 10 freaking years to show us something but he deserves time.
 
#238
#238
volfannbama said:
So...he isnt qualified to be a head coach?
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He's definitely qualified to be a head coach, but at UT? Top 12 tradition, Crazed fan base, toughest conference in college football. I don't know. That's a discussion for another thread. This thread is just me trying to show that the evidence suggests we should give him somewhere between 8 ( probably closer to 8. I need to do some math to be exact ) to 10 years to prove himself to be a really good coach. Not blindly i might add, once again. He has to show some progress along the way.

I think the evidence also suggests that he most likely won't win us an sec title in his first 3 to 5 years. There have been a few, like Stoops ( 2C 15A ), that have won a title of significance rather quickly, but most coaches that have actually won something of significance, it took them longer. So, I'm not saying it's impossible for Pruitt to get us an sec title in 3 to 5, but the evidence to me suggests that it will take him longer. Look at Saban ( 7C 26A ), Carrol ( 5C 22A ), Belichick ( 7C 19A ), Dantonio ( 7C 23A ), for example.

C=Coach years when significant title won
A= Assitant coach years when significant title won
 
#239
#239
Yeah, 8 definitely more than 10. Looking at these coaches, 8 is the median more than 10.

Remember, you gotta give value to years as an assistant, but that value isn't near as much as the value of head coach experience
 
#240
#240
Jaws said:
The UT job is such a tough rebuild right now, and the fact that Pruitt has never been a head coach before makes it extraordinarily difficult.

This was a miscalculation by Fulmer in hiring him. Someone with experience rebuilding another program would have been ideal.

Pruitt may be fine in time, but right now in his private moments, he has to be wondering what the heck he has gotten himself into and he’s thinking that this job is much tougher than he ever imagined.
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You really believe an established, successful head coach was going to take the UT job? CPF got the "best of the rest" and I think he hit a home run; but time will tell.
 
#241
#241
volsportsfan said:
He's definitely qualified to be a head coach, but at UT? Top 12 tradition, Crazed fan base, toughest conference in college football. I don't know. That's a discussion for another thread. This thread is just me trying to show that the evidence suggests we should give him somewhere between 8 ( probably closer to 8. I need to do some math to be exact ) to 10 years to prove himself to be a really good coach. Not blindly i might add, once again. He has to show some progress along the way.

I think the evidence also suggests that he most likely won't win us an sec title in his first 3 to 5 years. There have been a few, like Stoops ( 2C 15A ), that have won a title of significance rather quickly, but most coaches that have actually won something of significance, it took them longer. So, I'm not saying it's impossible for Pruitt to get us an sec title in 3 to 5, but the evidence to me suggests that it will take him longer. Look at Saban ( 7C 26A ), Carrol ( 5C 22A ), Belichick ( 7C 19A ), Dantonio ( 7C 23A ), for example.

C=Coach years when significant title won
A= Assitant coach years when significant title won
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At this point to me the mark isnt winning titles etc. The mark is looking like a competative, competent football team. With that titles will come. Most fans, I think, just want to feel like we have a chance. It worked Fulmer and fans were patient with it. Thats why people disagree with this 8 year nonsense, we will know well sooner than that. If in 3 years this team isnt drastically improved and playing week in and out like a hard noses football team with a chance to.win nearly every game,.pruitt will have won over the majority of the fanbase. If this team doesn't look drastically better, pruitt probably isnt the guy. It's as simple as that.

All this "research" your doing about how long someone should be ab assistant before becoming a good head coach is, no offense, worthless. Shame on the ut staff for hiring a guy that wasnt ready. I dont blame pruitt.at all for that. I may be able to effectively coach a jv team and if tennesssee offered.me millions to take that job, id take it today...and fail miserably. You can point the coaching history.of ever football coach of all time.and it wouldnt change a thing. Pruitt has.3 years to have this team looking like a competent competitive team. If he doesnt have that in 3 years its time to.start gauging interest behind the scenes.
To me its.just funny how quickly the narrative changes to prove whatever point we want. For instance, last year it.was "we have loads of wasted talent, one good coach away, what a great spot a coach can step in and succeed right away.etc" now its, "pruitt is great and every player on our team only had two choices, Tennessee or Austin Peay."
 
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#242
#242
@volfannbama I think you have missed my point. I also expect a competitive team in year 3 that isn't blowing assignments, using bad techniques/not executing the fundamentals of the position. This thread is me suggesting that Pruitt most likely won't win an sec title year 3-5. I think the evidence suggests this. His magic number seems to be year 8 when he should produce a sec title. This thread is about a relatively inexperienced head coach, unlike our previous head coach. With Butch, based on his experience, by year 5 when he got fired he should have had us a sec title. At least should have had us in title game, and I think most of us would have understood losing to the goat if that's who he had met in title game.
 
#245
#245
Bama was down for ten years and several coaching misfires prior to hiring Saban. They even had a coach who never coached a game. We owned them during that time period. In Saban's second year they won twelve games, and in his third they won the NC.

Auburn won three games - three - the year before Malzahn was hired. His first year they played for the NC. And that was his first Power 5 head coaching job.

Others have already listed several other coaches who made immediate impacts: Meyer, Swinney, Stoops, etc. One that wasn't listed but should be is Chris Peterson. Washington was not a lick better than we are now when he arrived, and within a year he had completely transformed them.

All of the misery Bama fans endured, and all of the mediocre coaching they had, for the ten years they were down didn't stop Saban from making an immediate impact - the team was night-and-day different the first time we played them under him. And a year later they were on a level we haven't sniffed in seventeen years.

I'm not suggesting Pruitt should be fired. But we should know whether or not he has it by the end of the third year, if not before.
 
#246
#246
volsportsfan said:
@volfannbama I think you have missed my point. I also expect a competitive team in year 3 that isn't blowing assignments, using bad techniques/not executing the fundamentals of the position. This thread is me suggesting that Pruitt most likely won't win an sec title year 3-5. I think the evidence suggests this. His magic number seems to be year 8 when he should produce a sec title. This thread is about a relatively inexperienced head coach, unlike our previous head coach. With Butch, based on his experience, by year 5 when he got fired he should have had us a sec title. At least should have had us in title game, and I think most of us would have understood losing to the goat if that's who he had met in title game.
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You dont have to.try so hard to convince everyone about the 3-5 years. The overwhelming majority of fans would agree and be happy if we are competative and not a complete joke.

The whole "magic number is 8 years" is meaningless, just something you competely pulled out of your rear.
 
#247
#247
volfannbama said:
You dont have to.try so hard to convince everyone about the 3-5 years. The overwhelming majority of fans would agree and be happy if we are competative and not a complete joke.

The whole "magic number is 8 years" is meaningless, just something you competely pulled out of your rear.
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Nah, ive provided some evidence and you simply disagree with it. It's cool, move on. There thousands of others for me to present this to besides you.
 
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#250
#250
I'm showing you it most likely will take until around year 8. Many, many, mannnnyy have been coaching for years and have never won a significant title. A few have won a significant title in a smaller time frame.

It's like a pregnancy. Dr tells your wife a date 40 weeks and most spontaneous babies are born very close to that due date. Now, a few come early, a few come later, but the majority do come within days of that due date. My wife has had 3 and they have been on, or a day before, or a day after her due date.

That is the purpose of this. To find that median, to find that time frame when a majority of coaches win a title of significance. Some get there early, some a little later, but most about that 8 year mark if I'm looking at the evidence correctly. The tough part is equating the assistant coach experience, but it definitely counts imo
 
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