Some thoughts on what has transpired....

#101
#101
JOEY'S ALL VOL !!! said:
If Clear is guilty then he's a thief and I wouldn't want him, but CDD just signed Bonner after his guilt of theft on the premise of giving a second chance. As much as I'd hate it seems to me in fairness Clear should be awarded the same second shot.
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IMO he was on his second chance.
 
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#102
#102
utmba93 said:
It's a good post, Eric.

Minor point, but I'm pretty sure most parents have taught their kids to watch their laptops around anyone named Cam, anyways.
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He should have tried throwing it out the window. Maybe with any luck he can go to Auburn and play worked out for the last one!:)
 
#104
#104
BearCat204 said:
No doubt they did their job. The OP seems to be under the impression that they should give a special consideration to a student who happens to play football.
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The belief that there are a different set of laws for athletes is pitifully sad and repugnant. I hate it's happening, but no person is above the law. Treating athletes like the OP is suggesting is doing them a great disservice as it only sets them up for disaster after sports.
 
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#106
#106
Cartervol said:
It's a serious charge. If he's proven guilty he's probably gone. You really can't handle that internally. That was going to get out one way or the other. Sad that maybe another player has made a potentially bad decision cost him a shot at playing big time football. Seems to happen a whole lot these days.
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I would argue that the reason it happens often is that these athletes have had other issues (not necessarily crimes) 'handled differently' in the past giving some of them a sense entitlement, if you will.
 
#108
#108
I know this would never happen, but couldn't Dooley technically be charged with something like being an accessory to theft because of the cover up? Now that would suck.
 
#110
#110
VolStudent247 said:
I know this would never happen, but couldn't Dooley technically be charged with something like being an accessory to theft because of the cover up? Now that would suck.
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I think he knows a little bit about the law and probably wouldn't put himself in that position
 
#111
#111
utvolpj said:
I think he knows a little bit about the law and probably wouldn't put himself in that position
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I agree that he probably knows the law, but many who know the law do this often. I am not trying to knock Dooley at all, but I have wondered the same thing. I don't know enough about the law to say, so I'll ask the question to anyone that does.

Joe Public is a person that has authority of some sort over a large group of young adults. IF there were incidents prior to another event of similar nature and IF a person that had considerable influence over others exerted pressure to let them handle it rather than file charges, could their be some culpability for the person in charge in regards to covering up (obstruction), tampering, or intimidation of witnesses/victims?

Again, I'm just asking a question- not insinuating/inferring anything about any particular coach.
 
#112
#112
GoBigOrangeVols said:
We have other options in terms of warm bodied scholarship caliber players... But by all accounts, Clear is/was going to be a pretty special player for us. In the short term we are fine because Rivera is a good player, but behind that, no one else on the roster is "special" at that position.
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Exactly, this is a big hit to the offense. It is not the worst hit, but it would be a top 5 hit on the offensive side of the ball in my opinion. We were going to run a 2 TE system prettty often and now you can not do that because Downs has to give Rivera a rest. If one of them gets hurt, we are in BIIIGGG trouble.
 
#113
#113
JayVols said:
I agree that he probably knows the law, but many who know the law do this often. I am not trying to knock Dooley at all, but I have wondered the same thing. I don't know enough about the law to say, so I'll ask the question to anyone that does.

Joe Public is a person that has authority of some sort over a large group of young adults. IF there were incidents prior to another event of similar nature and IF a person that had considerable influence over others exerted pressure to let them handle it rather than file charges, could their be some culpability for the person in charge in regards to covering up (obstruction), tampering, or intimidation of witnesses/victims?

Again, I'm just asking a question- not insinuating/inferring anything about any particular coach.
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Jay, let me add some comments to the sequence without naming names.

there were incidents that occurred back in April regarding football players and them losing items from their dorm rooms. The FB program did an investigation and determined that certain things did occur. It was determined to be incidenences that happened involving football players and the matter was kept in house, within the program. Individual(s) were given punishment for what they did.

This past weekend was a separate incident and was OUTSIDE the football program. A complaint was filed with the authorities. They tracked the missing item and found Clear with it. He was arrested and charged. This incident was outside the Football program, the authorities were brought into it immedately by the victim. that is how this became so public.

IMO, they were not covering up the first incident(s). Things happen weekly within various athletic programs involving players in those programs (UT and other programs). Punishment is given out and things are handled internally. The press and general public don't get those details. Happens all the time.

Just trying to point out the differences in the two instances.
 
#114
#114
JayVols said:
I agree that he probably knows the law, but many who know the law do this often. I am not trying to knock Dooley at all, but I have wondered the same thing. I don't know enough about the law to say, so I'll ask the question to anyone that does.

Joe Public is a person that has authority of some sort over a large group of young adults. IF there were incidents prior to another event of similar nature and IF a person that had considerable influence over others exerted pressure to let them handle it rather than file charges, could their be some culpability for the person in charge in regards to covering up (obstruction), tampering, or intimidation of witnesses/victims?
Again, I'm just asking a question- not insinuating/inferring anything about any particular coach.
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Off the top of my head there is a coercion statute.
 
#115
#115
LWSVOL said:
Jay, let me add some comments to the sequence without naming names.

there were incidents that occurred back in April regarding football players and them losing items from their dorm rooms. The FB program did an investigation and determined that certain things did occur. It was determined to be incidenences that happened involving football players and the matter was kept in house, within the program. Individual(s) were given punishment for what they did.

This past weekend was a separate incident and was OUTSIDE the football program. A complaint was filed with the authorities. They tracked the missing item and found Clear with it. He was arrested and charged. This incident was outside the Football program, the authorities were brought into it immedately by the victim. that is how this became so public.

IMO, they were not covering up the first incident(s). Things happen weekly within various athletic programs involving players in those programs (UT and other programs). Punishment is given out and things are handled internally. The press and general public don't get those details. Happens all the time.

Just trying to point out the differences in the two instances.
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Thanks. I don't know how this stuff works, so I asked. Again, I was in no way insinuating anything. The hypothetical just popped in my head, and I asked.

Edit: I know about handling things in house, but most of the time the incidents involved minors. If a law was broken, it was out of our hands, and was turned over to the AD, principal, and law enforcement. We weren't touching that for our paltry salaries.
 
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#116
#116
LWSVOL said:
Jay, let me add some comments to the sequence without naming names.

there were incidents that occurred back in April regarding football players and them losing items from their dorm rooms. The FB program did an investigation and determined that certain things did occur. It was determined to be incidenences that happened involving football players and the matter was kept in house, within the program. Individual(s) were given punishment for what they did.

This past weekend was a separate incident and was OUTSIDE the football program. A complaint was filed with the authorities. They tracked the missing item and found Clear with it. He was arrested and charged. This incident was outside the Football program, the authorities were brought into it immedately by the victim. that is how this became so public.

IMO, they were not covering up the first incident(s). Things happen weekly within various athletic programs involving players in those programs (UT and other programs). Punishment is given out and things are handled internally. The press and general public don't get those details. Happens all the time.

Just trying to point out the differences in the two instances.
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Were these incidents in April victimless?
 
#117
#117
JayVols said:
Thanks. I don't know how this stuff works, so I asked. Again, I was in no way insinuating anything. The hypothetical just popped in my head, and I asked.

Edit: I know about handling things in house, but most of the time the incidents involved minors. If a law was broken, it was out of our hands, and was turned over to the AD, principal, and law enforcement. We weren't touching that for our paltry salaries.
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I should have said, trying to address the many posts in thsi thread. wasn't taking your statement one way or the other.

another comment: as long as there has been team sports where team mates live together, you have players taking from other players. Sometimes it is borrowing and sometimes it might really be stealing. In either case, lot of times no involvement of the law. the handle within team. Many times, players are the enforcers when you have a team mate constantly taking things.

Its like teaching a child, you ask before taking something that belongs to someone else, even a brother or sister. In these cases, it is a team mate.

It can get hazy when to include law enforcement when its a "family" or "team" thing.
 
#120
#120
g8terh8ter_eric said:
I know. It just seems as if this whole thing could have been handled differently is all I'm saying. I was probably a bit too forward in my original post.
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I agree 100 percent. we should take this baseball player and the cop to bar knoxville and do what we do best. Would that satisify you Eric?
 
#121
#121
g8terh8ter_eric said:
1. We have no true facts on any message board out there on the internet, other than Cam had the laptop in question when the police arrived. This is probably a pretty damning situation, but he still deserves to be proven guilty, versus having the fan base convict him before the judicial system does.

2. There have been several key team members over the years that have done this exact same thing, just wasn't publicized like this has been, and I think that the deterioration between UT and the law enforcement of Knox county needs to be fixed. I don't know how long that might take, or what needs to be done, but there are ways to handle things like this, and I don't think it's been handled very well.

3. Whatever happens to Cam, isn't probably going to be Dooley's decision in the end. If Cam violates team rules, UT rules, and the law in general, then Cam will have made this decision for himself. Dooley's hand won't be in it, especially if enough evidence is there to completely overwhelm any case Cam could present.

4. I'm not going to write Cam off, like some on here are already doing. People make mistakes, and deserve second chances, whether it is at UT or not.

5. If I'm a UT teammate of Cam's, I don't alienate him at all, no matter what. Now with that being said, I also put this down in my book of bad things to do when bored.

6. In regards to recruiting, it would probably be a good idea to let this die rather quickly. We don't need constant fodder and chatter about problems, especially with summer camps coming up. Just not something the parents of recruits really want to hear about on their trip.
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Don't alienate him; just hope your locker is not next to his.
 
#122
#122
g8terh8ter_eric said:
There are ways to handle things like this, especially when it involves UT athletics in Knoxville, but it's obvious that a little discretion is almost impossible for some of today's law enforcement to use.
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Discretion really? What if this were a political figure? Would you expect discretion if they committed a felony? Unless you're a minor, discretion is not necessary.
 
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#123
#123
ainge said today on TNSR that there is more to the story than what we have been told so far so hopefully everything work out for cam he also said that if this happened back in the day that the team would have handled it and not the police him and swain both said the same thing that they both had property and money stolen from them and they handled it in house and when it became necessary that fulmer took care of it
 
#124
#124
Why would a STUDENT steal a LAPTOP, unless he was going to SELL it? Universities still have some sort of media center and libraries where they can access the internet or computers for FREE!
 
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