Roster Construction Doomed This Team

#101
#101
zjcvols said:
I was going to save this for after the season, but I'm pretty annoyed with that loss. The roster construction was really bad this year. Honestly, the historic offensive rebounding & Nate Ament turning into a lottery pick the second half of the season is the only reason they were able to be top 25 and get a top 6 seed in the tourney this year.

I don't understand why after having a small ball/stretch 4 the last two years (JJJ, then Milicic) they went after Jaylen Carey with Okpara, Phillips, and Estrella already on the team. Ament is designed to play the 4 in college. I don't get why they thought having an undersized, non-vertical 4 with zero skills and bad defense would be beneficial to the team. Imaging having a ball mover like JJJ or a stretch 4 like Milicic getting his minutes and that's probably worth 3-4 wins. I'm not blaming Carey completely, this was just a bad fit.

And while we make mistakes in recruiting/transfer portal, I don't know what the staff saw that made them think Abram & Burg would be contributors this year (more specifically Abram). Both are 23 year olds and they gave up on Abram in December. Burg finally looked like he can play competent minutes in late February. If they were freshman, I wouldn't worry about it. But they asked way too much offensively of Boswell & Evans this year. That's pretty bad scouting by the staff. Ament and Gillespie had zero space to work with this year and it really hurt both their games, they were not able to fulfill their potential this year IMO. I'm more annoyed by Carey than Abram/Burg, but it still needs to be pointed out.

I hope that the staff understands the value of having more shooting. I know they were surprised by Cameron Carr leaving in the middle of December last year and that put them behind the 8 ball a little bit (God, it's really a shame it didn't work out with him) in terms of their shooting. I know they were outbid for a couple high end shooters in last year's portal, that will happen. But I honestly do not want to watch another offense like this again. And sure, not having Zakai as a steady hand and Gillespie played way too much on the ball, but they did nothing to help him out this year. I'm not worried about the program long-term, I'm actually really excited about what Boswell, Evans, Estrella and Brown can be next year. But they cannot have as many misses as they did this year. They must focus on getting real shooting answers in the portal.
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If we had the count on how many times Carey sealed the lane open for another player's layup, we might have a better measure of his value to the team this season.

He also brings maturity and experience to the locker room of an otherwise rather young team--to say nothing of all he has taught Nate about physical play in practices since summer.

I'd say all Carey's weaknesses are apparent to the average fan, but his true value might only be appreciated by the coaches who break down video.
 
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#105
#105
oldaaucoach said:
I agree. He is exactly the player I thought we were getting. I could never understand why CRB went after him instead of a stretch four.
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Did you hear Slay’s comments on Carey? Very critical or the work he failed to put in. More than one former Vol thought he’d be a Maymon type player for us. He is one of the best space eaters I’ve seen, but he obviously doesn’t put in any extra work. I was way wrong about him, and agree he needs to move along.
 
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#106
#106
I don't think Barnes will let him leave. He obviously has an attachment to him,
he even plays him in last 4 min. of games even though he can't hit a FT
 
#107
#107
zjcvols said:
Henderson I agree. I think there's some talent there and hope he comes back.

Burg is 23 and played pro ball in Israel for like 4 years. What would make you think he can make a big jump in the offseason? I'm not seeing the leap for a 23 year old getting significantly better next year.
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I mean he got here pretty late and has made a pretty big jump during the season imo. Not sure what Israeli pro ball looks like from a development and competition standpoint, but it was obviously a step up in competition for him. I would also think the resources and coaching here would lead to pretty significant development in his first real offseason.
 
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#108
#108
cncchris33 said:
Tyler Tanner was a 3* PG from Brentwood Academy. I had never heard of him until his breakout at Vandy. Did our staff ever scout him? We never offered, but neither did a lot of other schools. But he can clearly play. Mark Byington is just really good at evaluating undervalued players that fit his system.
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K? And?
 
#109
#109
BruisedOrange said:
If we had the count on how many times Carey sealed the lane open for another player's layup, we might have a better measure of his value to the team this season.

He also brings maturity and experience to the locker room of an otherwise rather young team--to say nothing of all he has taught Nate about physical play in practices since summer.

I'd say all Carey's weaknesses are apparent to the average fan, but his true value might only be appreciated by the coaches who break down video.
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Yeah that's all great.

I saw him play 30 games. I'm good if he leaves.
 
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#110
#110
Based on what’s coming back, I’m not very encouraged about next season. Barnes loves projects and he’s got a roster full of them. There’s not a position that doesn’t need a serious upgrade. And scoring is a massive need obviously.
 
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#112
#112
TheMookieMonster said:
I would like to see a roster overhaul in the off-season. I think the only players I would like to see us keep that aren’t graduating or going to the NBA are Amari Evans, JP Estrella, Cade Phillips, and DeWayne Brown.

I don’t see Carey improving. Boswell was a flash in the pan in January with his shooting and he is a walking turnover. Henderson I guess could have potential, but I’m not pressed about keeping him. Burg is going to be 23 next year. He’s peaked.

The high school class doesn’t have a Nate Ament in it so we’re going to need to load up in the portal to compete next year. We need guards in droves. Just give me as many ball handlers and pure shooters for one final season with Barnes and see what happens. Space the floor, chuck it from 3, and try and win every game 101-100.
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I keep seeing people saying Brown is a player. I have seen no offensive skills at all and one pump fake gets him in the air on defense. I keep waiting to see something to impress me, but as of now, I’m still waiting. Hate to be negative but it just seems so obvious.
 
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#113
#113
Volnuck said:
I keep seeing people saying Brown is a player. I have seen no offensive skills at all and one pump fake gets him in the air on defense. I keep waiting to see something to impress me, but as of now, I’m still waiting. Hate to be negative but it just seems so obvious.
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Barnes has been pretty complimentary of him
 
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#114
#114
Clad in Big Orange said:
Based on what’s coming back, I’m not very encouraged about next season. Barnes loves projects and he’s got a roster full of them. There’s not a position that doesn’t need a serious upgrade. And scoring is a massive need obviously.
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I am encouraged about next season. We have a nice nucleus in Estrella, Brown and Phillips inside. We have the potential to be better next season. Yeah Barnes likes projects and has done quite well developing players while here. He has also worked the portal well in obtaining high level scorers.
 
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#115
#115
Barnes is a great coach, but you can't start grit guys like Boswell, Mashack, and Evans at SG who give you next to nothing offensively. I love their grit, but their lack of shooting puts too much pressure on 1 or 2 guys to carry the scoring. We haven't had balanced scoring since the Grant/Admiral/Bowden/Turner years. There is just no excuse for that with the portal and the budget that we have.
 
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#116
#116
Uros said:
Barnes is a great coach, but you can't start grit guys like Boswell, Mashack, and Evans at SG who give you next to nothing offensively. I love their grit, but their lack of shooting puts too much pressure on 1 or 2 guys to carry the scoring. We haven't had balanced scoring since the Grant/Admiral/Bowden/Turner years. There is just no excuse for that with the portal and the budget that we have.
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Yet we have had 2 teams advance farther than the 2019 team. I am not sure Barnes needs an excuse, especially for the entitled, low info casuals
 
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#117
#117
Volnuck said:
I keep seeing people saying Brown is a player. I have seen no offensive skills at all and one pump fake gets him in the air on defense. I keep waiting to see something to impress me, but as of now, I’m still waiting. Hate to be negative but it just seems so obvious.
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-he has a decent floater from 3-4 feet
-he has shown he can get the ball up quick on the square right or left
-he is well above average and willing passer feeding the post
-his ball iq may be best on the team on both ends
-he hits fts better than Carey, Cade and felix
-he can guard down low and perimeter because he has good feet and smart
-he doesn’t get shoved around
-he went straight up on 2 huge drives against Auburn with 2 great defensive plays and has played better D than you giving credit for
Those assets are all obvious to me.


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#118
#118
Volnuck said:
I keep seeing people saying Brown is a player. I have seen no offensive skills at all and one pump fake gets him in the air on defense. I keep waiting to see something to impress me, but as of now, I’m still waiting. Hate to be negative but it just seems so obvious.
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Good example of a Barnes diamond in the rough. A four year player with potential to be really good…maybe. The problem is if he’s only marginally better each year and never becomes the diamond at UT. That’s a huge time commitment in an era where you need high production sooner rather than later.
 
#120
#120
I guess what’s bothering me is all the Carey bash. What if Barnes was expecting him to do exactly like he wanted. Felix seemed like he did the exact thing from last year too.
Yes, I can agree we always expect more of a player but where I draw the line is “regressing”
Nobody is talking about Abram’s regression as a transfer.
Burg was a late pick up, which I think was more depth.
 
#121
#121
WaywardVol said:
No, you brought up Tanner, who’s been at Vandy since day one and developed quite nicely. I have no idea your point.
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You said this...
WaywardVol said:
All those guys aren’t returning. Carey? Nope/ massamba? Seriously? How can Vandy fine players and we Have to get a Massamba??
Boswell is a 10-12 minute guy on any quality team, no offense to the kid. Burg? Spare me.
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You asked how Vandy can find players whike we settle.

I brought up Tanner as an example of one such Vandy player that they've scouted, identified, and landed while we did the same with Massamba and it hasn't work out, at least not yet. And we didn’t even give Tanner much of a look, if any.

I'm agreeing with you.
 
#122
#122
To me there are a lot of great points made here, but the thing I noticed more than anything this year was the lack of leadership on the floor when things weren't going well. No ZZ or JJJ or Mashack to keep guys focused and all pulling in the same direction. Huge roster turnover obviously was responsible along with WHO we lost. Way more individuals and less teamwork. I just didn't see the chemistry as with previous teams.
 
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#123
#123
Dougie_D said:
I guess what’s bothering me is all the Carey bash. What if Barnes was expecting him to do exactly like he wanted. Felix seemed like he did the exact thing from last year too.
Yes, I can agree we always expect more of a player but where I draw the line is “regressing”
Nobody is talking about Abram’s regression as a transfer.
Burg was a late pick up, which I think was more depth.
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I don't know that Abrams "regressed". He hasn't played enough to make such an assertion. I am not sure Barnes and Co. have explained why his PT has dropped so no one really knows outside of the team. He looks enthusiastic pulling for his teammates from the bench.
 
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#124
#124
garyp194 said:
To me there are a lot of great points made here, but the thing I noticed more than anything this year was the lack of leadership on the floor when things weren't going well. No ZZ or JJJ or Mashack to keep guys focused and all pulling in the same direction. Huge roster turnover obviously was responsible along with WHO we lost. Way more individuals and less teamwork. I just didn't see the chemistry as with previous teams.
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I think you have nailed it. It's turned out to be Nate. Season isn't over. Some seem to have forgotten that
 
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#125
#125
BruisedOrange said:
If we had the count on how many times Carey sealed the lane open for another player's layup, we might have a better measure of his value to the team this season.

He also brings maturity and experience to the locker room of an otherwise rather young team--to say nothing of all he has taught Nate about physical play in practices since summer.

I'd say all Carey's weaknesses are apparent to the average fan, but his true value might only be appreciated by the coaches who break down video.
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Carey has got to learn to shoot free throws. It is limiting his minutes and his effectiveness. He would be a double double machine if could shoot 70% from the line.
 
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