NCAA files response in Tennessee lawsuit, cites state’s laws barring NIL in recruiting

#101
#101
Delmar said:
No, it’s your incessant nonsense on this subject that’s laughable and naive. As nice as your theory and wish is, it’s not going back to that era. You haven’t responded once to multiple posts asking you if you understand that NIL cannot be limited. Or do you not understand the word illegal? I’m not going to waste time asking again.

The NCAA is powerless to stop NIL and athletes making money. Why? Because the Supreme Court said so: 9 to 0 with no dissenting opinions. The NCAA is in the same position as Custer at the Little Big Horn. “Where did all these effin Indians come from?”
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The Supreme Court decision you cite was not about NIL, ace. It was focused on /education-related/ student-athlete benefits.

You miss my point: The courts might determine that schools can offer NIL deals to high-schoolers. But that doesn't mean that they have to--or should. That's different. People do a lot of things--doesn't mean they should do them. Programs have been doing it because that's what programs do. Nobody is going let a rival(s) gain any sort of advantage in recruiting. And If you wish to waste your money on NIL, go for it, brother. Lots of people send their hard-earned money to televangelists, too---it's legal!---and the TV preachers take their money and buy beach homes and luxury property and tell the suckers funding their lavish lifestyles that God loves 'em! The parents of high-school prospects will love you, too!
 
#102
#102
Danl said:
Not if, as part of his job, he wants to market his name, image, or likeness. All other students can do so, of course.
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The players are allowed to earn money from NIL now! No one is limiting that. But players //already in school.// That was why NIL was conceived. Current players. Not high-schoolers who have not signed with any school and are not enrolled in college--which then of course just makes NIL offers the same as bribes. That is not what NIL was conceived for--and that is what the NCAA wants to end--rightly, in my vew. We can disagree on this: If fans want to spend their money to help bribe high-schoolers, go for it.
 
#103
#103
turbovol said:
You're confusing an employee for a PRIVATE company with a full-time student at public university, dude. There's a big difference--duh. Also note that the private employee can be sacked at any time and is working 8 hours a day versus 2/3 hours for a football player participating in what was long considered an extracurricular activity.
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Football players at competitive programs put in way more work than 2/3 hours a day. Not sure where you are getting that from. Also, a program can kick a player off a team at any time. Sure, the program could get a bad rep if there isn't a valid reason, but it happens. How is this different than a private company paying interns to do work for them, outside of the market, therefore the pay is different.
 
#104
#104
turbovol said:
You're confusing an employee for a PRIVATE company with a full-time student at public university, dude. There's a big difference--duh. Also note that the private employee can be sacked at any time and is working 8 hours a day versus 2/3 hours for a football player participating in what was long considered an extracurricular activity.

And the players have already received a free-market benefit--a financially valuable college education.

And let's look at pro football, the NFL: They bid for free-agent players, too, yes? But there's a difference: The free agents are /established/ professional players. The clubs who sign free agents basically know what they're getting.

In contrast, in college we've had collectives bidding for 17-year-olds who are not established college players. And we know that probably half of all major college-signees won't amount to much. And this: both some of those who DO pan out and many of those who Don't pan out will be likely to transfer--which means that any NIL money paid to them was wasted.

Now, we'll see how it all shakes out, but spending lots of money on UNESTABLISHED free agents who may not pan out and who could transfer whether they do or don't pan out would be considered high risk and rather unwise/dumb by a lot of people.

The NFL also bids for unestablished pro players, too--BUT via an orderly draft. Players are picked, and their contracts are essentially set in stone already--there is an established and quite tight salary/bonus range for every player picked in the draft, I believe. If the NFL were like college recruiting with NIL, you'd have 20 teams engaged in crazy bidding for the the top 2 QBs in the draft. The NFL is smart enough to avoid that. There is also a salary cap in pro football that promotes parity, so that as we see in college football, we don't see the same 10 teams dominating every year.

If, at the end of the day, NIL bribes continue to be a part of recruiting, if that's what the major programs want to do, then have at it. If your money is burning a whole in your pocket, pull it out and send it to the collective. Fans just want to support to their programs--which of course they do anyway in myriad ways by donating to the athletic department, buying season tickets, parking, travel, hotels, etc.--I get that. But it also seems both unseemly and foolish to me. I'm opposed to turning college football into some version of pro football. Perhaps one needs to have some appreciation for the total college experiernce to think as I do. I'd venture that most adult SEC college fans didn't even go to the SEC school they support--or college at all--and so for them it's just about the football and doing all one can do win at football. And that's how they view NIL.
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Let's pay you in education.
 
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#105
#105
The B1G and SEC joint statement Friday may also be impacting this court case or making it pointless if both leagues decide to just break from the NCAA.
 
#106
#106
turbovol said:
The Supreme Court decision you cite was not about NIL, ace. It was focused on /education-related/ student-athlete benefits.

You miss my point: The courts might determine that schools can offer NIL deals to high-schoolers. But that doesn't mean that they have to--or should. That's different. People do a lot of things--doesn't mean they should do them. Programs have been doing it because that's what programs do. Nobody is going let a rival(s) gain any sort of advantage in recruiting. And If you wish to waste your money on NIL, go for it, brother. Lots of people send their hard-earned money to televangelists, too---it's legal!---and the TV preachers take their money and buy beach homes and luxury property and tell the suckers funding their lavish lifestyles that God loves 'em! The parents of high-school prospects will love you, too!
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Is NIL not one of those benefits that the court was talking about? I believe it is. If not, all these posters, lawyers and media folks are very confused and you are the only person that truly understands. 🙄😂 The bottom line is that you cannot limit what an athlete (pro, college and soon high school) can make if someone wants to pay them.

I am on record as not liking the situation if there is no control. But I am also resigned to the fact there is nothing anybody can do about it so I’m not going to lose sleep over it or spend my time jousting with windmills. I believe the top 50 schools (give or take) are going to split off and do their own thing. It will involve employment contracts so that transfers can at least be controlled. But as far as limiting NIL, that’s not going to happen so you might as well get used to it.
 
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#107
#107
After reading Mars's response to the court... It's a done deal. The TRO will be granted Tuesday. He also requested the NCAA rule allowing it to investigate past NIL situations be ruled as unlawful and added to the injunction.
 
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#108
#108
midtnvol2 said:
I agree, but if the power 5 can legally break away from the NCAA and you no longer have a Kansas vs Michigan matchup and now you have a San Jose St vs MTSU national championship game, who is going to pay for the rights to that game? The power 5 have the best and most watchable catalog of teams in just about any championship tourney .
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The question is whether the conferences or schools have a contract to play in March Madness OR, like the ACC "Grant of Rights," send any tournament money to the NCAA.

The issue with schools leaving the ACC is that even if they join another conference, they have a contract to send any football TV revenue to the ACC. Even if they leave to the SEC, they would have to forfeit the SEC share to the ACC.

Because the schools HAVEN'T sued the NCAA to negotiate their own March Madness media deals, as they did with football, there must be some kind of contract agreement in place keeping them from going after that money.
 
#109
#109
Haven't read the entire response yet. But USA today now reporting.. part of TN AG response was "NCAA defends a world that doesn't exist."
 
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#110
#110
turbovol said:
I'd venture that most adult SEC college fans didn't even go to the SEC school they support--or college at all--and so for them it's just about the football and doing all one can do win at football. And that's how they view NIL.
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You have written so, so many words (ill-advised words, but words nonetheless) on this subject. Like, perhaps more than the lawyers who are actually working on these cases. It's astonishing.

Seriously though, as an adult who graduated from UT and has zero problem with college athletes being compensated for their unique abilities and the vast sums of money they generate for universities every year, I think you're just gonna have to accept reality (read: NIL ain't going away) and either 1) deal with it, shut up, and continue watching or 2) stop watching. Both of those roads lead to less keyboard diarrhea for the rest of us, which is important.

I'm sorry the version of college athletics you prefer is dead. How long must the rest of us suffer through your tantrums?
 
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#111
#111
DaddyChad said:
It would be something to consider if all of your thinking wasn’t completely counter to what has happened. Bama built a dynasty bc of cheating and buying the best players available. This was before NIL, this was boosters paying players. NIL has allowed some teams to improve their rosters.
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And this is why Saban does not like nil. Not every school could get away with paying under the table money. Now it is legal to pay players and Bama will suffer because of nil. So Saban retires, because he knows he cannot continue to stock 4 and 5 star players getting paid to wait their turn to play
 
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#112
#112
Delmar said:
Is NIL not one of those benefits that the court was talking about? I believe it is. If not, all these posters, lawyers and media folks are very confused and you are the only person that truly understands. 🙄😂 The bottom line is that you cannot limit what an athlete (pro, college and soon high school) can make if someone wants to pay them.

I am on record as not liking the situation if there is no control. But I am also resigned to the fact there is nothin anybody can do about it so I’m not going to lose sleep over it or spend my time jousting with windmills. I believe the top 50 schools (give or take) are going to split off and do their own thing. It will involve employment contracts so that transfers can at least be controlled. But as far as limiting NIL, that’s not going to happen so you might as well get used to it.
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Very well said. and I agree with you.
 
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#113
#113
cgrish said:
And this is why Saban does not like nil. Not every school could get away with paying under the table money. Now it is legal to pay players and Bama will suffer because of nil. So Saban retires, because he knows he cannot continue to stock 4 and 5 star players getting paid to wait their turn to play
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I think Bama was still going to get plenty of talent. It just was harder to coach them these days. I think the portal was more of an issue for Saban personally but I think he just kind of knew it was time.
 
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#115
#115
"transform college sports into an environment where players and schools match up based primarily on the dollars that can change hands"

That is equilibrium, IMO, and what we want. For years the Alabama's and Ohio State's have been getting away with paying players to go to their school, while others are investigated. This is all out in the open and put's everyone on a level playing field.
 
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#116
#116
The NCAA avers that Spyre Sports is an extension of UT Athletics and that their actions constitute pay for play. They’ve no direct proof of this, and by NCAA’s most recent statement of rules, they don’t need proof, only suspicion. UT must prove itself innocent to the NCAA’s satisfaction. In light of this, I doubt any court will favor the NCAA’s petition and dismiss the complaint(s).
 
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#119
#119
turbovol said:
You're mixing apples and oranges, dude. The NCAA doesn't prevent the football player from taking an outside job if he has the time and inclination.
And he's getting paid for playing football, yes, to the tune of a full scholarship +++ worth $50K a year. Most college students go in debt to
earn a college degree. Let's stop all this silliness about poor, pitiful football players.

By your viewpoint, the university should be paying the band members and cheerleaders, too, yes?
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in the past rules, a scholarship athlete could not get a job during the season, or when school was in session. they could only work during breaks, like in the summer.
 
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#120
#120
sjt18 said:
Bottom line is that the NCAA has been like an abusive wife for its whole existence. The teams tolerated the abuse because they thought the marriage was good on the whole. They have brow beaten and abused programs with inconsistent application and interpretation of the rules. The ONLY thing that permitted it is that no one stood up and said no. It looks like UT, UVA, and hopefully others... have finally had enough.
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Is the VA AG acting on behalf of UVA or JMU?
 
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#123
#123
Just on the Finebaum show. The NLRB has ruled that Dartmouth men’s bball players are employees of the university and have ordered a union election. I’m not familiar with that case but I’m guessing it’s significant.
 
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#124
#124
Delmar said:
Just on the Finebaum show. The NLRB has ruled that Dartmouth men’s bball players are employees of the university and have ordered a union election. I’m not familiar with that case but I’m guessing it’s significant.
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It’s very significant, the entire NCAA student-athlete model is going to come crashing down, and soon.
 
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