National title game thread

#476
#476
volfanbill said:
did you ever stop to think that Cal wasn't trying to convince the media of that fact but convince himself and more importantly his players? He was giving them a vote of confidence that he thought they would be able to hit them when they had to. Those Memphis players aren't idiots, they knew they had to improve and improve dramatically. It just didn't happen tonight.
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it was 100% about the players. they needed his public vote of confidence worse than anything else he might have said.
 
#477
#477
BigPapaVol said:
outplayed, if it means a late game ft shooting affair, is correct. I'm with Vitale on the need to change the way finishes work. 1 ft and the ball would help.

Tn probably wasn't the best team in 1998.

I'm not arguing that KU shouldn't be the champion. I'm saying they were not the best of those 2 teams and I hate to see late game FT garbage decide outcomes. I think it needs to change for the good of the game.
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Well, maybe Vitale and Calipari can start their own league...kind of XFL meets And 1...

Until then, KU will play the way that Naismith designed as well as coached them.:whistling:
 
#478
#478
Free throws are just as much part of the game as turnovers, a dunk, and a 3 pointer... so should turnovers not decide the outcome?
 
#480
#480
BigPapaVol said:
outplayed, if it means a late game ft shooting affair, is correct. I'm with Vitale on the need to change the way finishes work. 1 ft and the ball would help.

Tn probably wasn't the best team in 1998.

I'm not arguing that KU shouldn't be the champion. I'm saying they were not the best of those 2 teams and I hate to see late game FT garbage decide outcomes. I think it needs to change for the good of the game.
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it's the game. It's how it was created, and why change it just because the team you consider better can't hit their free throws? Memphis should've manned up and hit 'em, it's that simple. They could be better offensively, defensively and whatever else you want. But basketball is not a one facet game.
 
#481
#481
therealUT said:
Well, maybe Vitale and Calipari can start their own league...kind of XFL meets And 1...

Until then, KU will play the way that Naismith designed as well as coached them.:whistling:
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That is pretty good stuff condsidering you are probably inebriated. :clapping:
 
#482
#482
hmanvolfan said:
Well, you won't have to change anything as the Tigers will show up. I will stick by my prediction, Memphis by 10+....
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Just dropped by to tell you I remembered you when Chalmers shot went in in regulation. Rock, chalk, honey!

WHAT A GAME!

And, by the way, thanks for the hospitality over here. You guys have been great to a foreigner here. Maybe we'll meet in football this year!
 
#483
#483
BigPapaVol said:
Tn probably wasn't the best team in 1998.
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Ohio State is the only team that would have an argument. We'd just beaten them 2 years prior and they've been embarassed by every SEC team they've played since. I have no problem saying UT was the best team that year. If Ohio State wanted a shot to play us, they probably shouldn't have lost to a 6-6 team not in the top 25.
 
#484
#484
therealUT said:
Well, maybe Vitale and Calipari can start their own league...kind of XFL meets And 1...

Until then, KU will play the way that Naismith designed as well as coached them.:whistling:
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If Kansas played like Naismith coached them to they would not have played in a postseason tournament.
 
#485
#485
all of this talk of how the scoreboard decides outcomes has changed my mind. great work guys.

my comment was that I hate to see the team that played the better game lose. I don't like that late game FTs settle so many games. That was it.

I'm not arguing that KU shouldn't have the trophy or that they didn't win the game. I think KU and Mem were the best teams in the country. I think Memphis outplayed KU, but lost. Had it been the other way around, I would have had the exact same comment. It's really that simple.
 
#486
#486
BigPapaVol said:
all of this talk of how the scoreboard decides outcomes has changed my mind. great work guys.

my comment was that I hate to see the team that played the better game lose. I don't like that late game FTs settle so many games. That was it.

I'm not arguing that KU shouldn't have the trophy or that they didn't win the game. I think KU and Mem were the best teams in the country. I think Memphis outplayed KU, but lost. Had it been the other way around, I would have had the exact same comment. It's really that simple.
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I would agree that for about 18 minutes in the second half memphis outplayed KU. The first 20 minutes were neck and neck with KU outplaying at the end of the half. The most important two minutes though was where Memphis lost it. KU outplayed them mostly because Memphis couldn't hit free throws. I'm not saying they are easy. I played bball for 12 years and I know how hard they can be. But like I said before, it's the nature of the game.
 
#488
#488
BigPapaVol said:
all of this talk of how the scoreboard decides outcomes has changed my mind. great work guys.

my comment was that I hate to see the team that played the better game lose. I don't like that late game FTs settle so many games. That was it.

I'm not arguing that KU shouldn't have the trophy or that they didn't win the game. I think KU and Mem were the best teams in the country. I think Memphis outplayed KU, but lost. Had it been the other way around, I would have had the exact same comment. It's really that simple.
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Ok. On a serious note, how did they outplay memphis that was so obvious? I know KU was plus 10 on rebounds. Obviously they shot free throws better. So what were the stats that favored Memphis?
 
#489
#489
BigPapaVol said:
all of this talk of how the scoreboard decides outcomes has changed my mind. great work guys.

my comment was that I hate to see the team that played the better game lose. I don't like that late game FTs settle so many games. That was it.

I'm not arguing that KU shouldn't have the trophy or that they didn't win the game. I think KU and Mem were the best teams in the country. I think Memphis outplayed KU, but lost. Had it been the other way around, I would have had the exact same comment. It's really that simple.
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Isn't that sort of reducing the game to being a beauty pageant though? It's sort of like saying they ought to eliminate kickers in football because sometimes games are decided by missed FGs and PATs rather than offense and defense.
 
#490
#490
BigPapaVol said:
all of this talk of how the scoreboard decides outcomes has changed my mind. great work guys.

my comment was that I hate to see the team that played the better game lose. I don't like that late game FTs settle so many games. That was it.

I'm not arguing that KU shouldn't have the trophy or that they didn't win the game. I think KU and Mem were the best teams in the country. I think Memphis outplayed KU, but lost. Had it been the other way around, I would have had the exact same comment. It's really that simple.
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So what is your solution then? Deal away with fouls and just let everyone go crazy hitting one another to get the ball back?

And Memphis had every chance to get back defensively to stop Kansas from getting them into OT and then didn't do much into OT.
 
#491
#491
Well, BPV, probably has something to do with Dorsey fouling Chalmers 25 feet away from the basket, while Memphis was up 8...Was that his fourth or fifth foul? That was just stupid basketball down the stretch by Memphis. And, well, Calipari should have taken a page from the CBP handbook and put KU on the free throw line, up 3, with under 10...
 
#492
#492
volfanbill said:
I would agree that for about 18 minutes in the second half memphis outplayed KU. The first 20 minutes were neck and neck with KU outplaying at the end of the half. The most important two minutes though was where Memphis lost it. KU outplayed them mostly because Memphis couldn't hit free throws. I'm not saying they are easy. I played bball for 12 years and I know how hard they can be. But like I said before, it's the nature of the game.
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I understand the nature of the game, but I still hate that late FTs are such an arbiter of game outcomes. I want to see teams play for the title, not FT shoot.
 
#493
#493
BigPapaVol said:
I want to see teams play for the title, not FT shoot.
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Then watch the "And 1 Mix Tape" tour on ESPN.

I understand what you are saying, but it's part of the game. Teams can't pick and choose which parts of the game to excel in.
 
#494
#494
allvol123 said:
Ok. On a serious note, how did they outplay memphis that was so obvious? I know KU was plus 10 on rebounds. Obviously they shot free throws better. So what were the stats that favored Memphis?
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what did KU do in the second half until Mem went to prevent mode to avoid fouling. Memphis flat shut down the game, even in big foul trouble. Rush was a non factor, as was the remainder of the team.
 
#495
#495
BigPapaVol said:
what did KU do in the second half until Mem went to prevent mode to avoid fouling. Memphis flat shut down the game, even in big foul trouble. Rush was a non factor, as was the remainder of the team.
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Funny, I was pretty positive that the scoring drought for Memphis was longer than the drought for KU...

Maybe Memphis had to avoid fouling because, well, KU can actually connect at the line...?

"I'm the guy that does his job. You must be the other guy!"
 
#496
#496
BigPapaVol said:
I understand the nature of the game, but I still hate that late FTs are such an arbiter of game outcomes. I want to see teams play for the title, not FT shoot.
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Local rules can be annoying for law students, but they ignore them at their own peril.

The devil is in the details - in basketball and so many other things.
 
#497
#497
GAVol said:
Isn't that sort of reducing the game to being a beauty pageant though? It's sort of like saying they ought to eliminate kickers in football because sometimes games are decided by missed FGs and PATs rather than offense and defense.
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terrible comparison. fouling at the end is a pure strategy decision by the trailing coach. Fts and FGs aren't the same because the opposition has nothing to do with it.

NCAA obviously agrees somewhat because they moved to auto 2 shots above 10 fts.
 
#498
#498
BigPapaVol said:
what did KU do in the second half until Mem went to prevent mode to avoid fouling. Memphis flat shut down the game, even in big foul trouble. Rush was a non factor, as was the remainder of the team.
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Sorry BPV. KU won the rebounding and FT stats. I don't know any of the other game stats right now. You are free to present me some if you won't. But it really won't matter....repsect you BPV...but this "I don't like FTs deciding" and "the better team played the better game and lost" is about the worst argument I have ever seen you make on here.
 
#499
#499
volwindy said:
So what is your solution then? Deal away with fouls and just let everyone go crazy hitting one another to get the ball back?
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Maybe not "let everyone go crazy hitting each other," but fouling and FT shooting is boring. I'd enjoy basketball a lot more if there were about five times as many non-calls as there are -- not just at the end of the game, but throughout. These guys are huge, skilled athletes; let them play like men. They don't break when they run into each other.
 
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