National title game thread

#501
#501
allvol123 said:
Sorry BPV. KU won the rebounding and FT stats. I don't know any of the other game stats right now. You are free to present me some if you want. But it really want matter....repsect you BPV...but this "I don't like FTs deciding" and "the better team played the better game and lost" is about the worst argument I have ever seen you make on here.
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They shot better from the field as well!
 
#503
#503
The Tigers have ratcheted up our hatred for them since they denied us the chance to say we were the only team to beat the national champions.
 
#505
#505
therealUT said:
Funny, I was pretty positive that the scoring drought for Memphis was longer than the drought for KU...

Maybe Memphis had to avoid fouling because, well, KU can actually connect at the line...?

"I'm the guy that does his job. You must be the other guy!"
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does pretty positive actually mean anything, or is it just a hedge because you aren't positive in the least. I don't care about how long the droughts were. I'm talking about Memphis coming out after half, overcoming foul trouble and slamming the door on a very good team.

Memphis didn't have to avoid fouling, they just wanted the clock running. Looking back at it, KUs makes were moot if Memphis makes a couple, so I'm PRETTY POSITIVE that KUs FT prowess had absolutely nothing to do with it.
 
#506
#506
I will add this was the best game of the entire tournament. The tournament as a whole sucked. This game was awesome.
 
#507
#507
BigPapaVol said:
terrible comparison. fouling at the end is a pure strategy decision by the trailing coach. Fts and FGs aren't the same because the opposition has nothing to do with it.

NCAA obviously agrees somewhat because they moved to auto 2 shots above 10 fts.
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I wasn't pointing it out as it pertains the opposing team having anything to do with it. Free throws are sort of like FGs in that they aren't considered "real" parts of the game despite their obvious importance especially in close games.
 
#508
#508
BigPapaVol said:
does pretty positive actually mean anything, or is it just a hedge because you aren't positive in the least. I don't care about how long the droughts were. I'm talking about Memphis coming out after half, overcoming foul trouble and slamming the door on a very good team.

Memphis didn't have to avoid fouling, they just wanted the clock running. Looking back at it, KUs makes were moot if Memphis makes a couple, so I'm PRETTY POSITIVE that KUs FT prowess had absolutely nothing to do with it.
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Does "slamming the door" actually mean anything? Next you are going to tell me that Memphis "put the nail in the coffin."

Good luck on that petition to change the game. It is not like Memphis plays in a real conference anyway, so getting out of real basketball is probably a pretty easy process.
 
#509
#509
therealUT said:
Does "slamming the door" actually mean anything? Next you are going to tell me that Memphis "put the nail in the coffin."

Good luck on that petition to change the game. It is not like Memphis plays in a real conference anyway, so getting out of real basketball is probably a pretty easy process.
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I suspect that there's been a lot more conversation about that exact change than you have any idea about.
 
#510
#510
therealUT said:
Does "slamming the door" actually mean anything? Next you are going to tell me that Memphis "put the nail in the coffin."

Good luck on that petition to change the game. It is not like Memphis plays in a real conference anyway, so getting out of real basketball is probably a pretty easy process.
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OK, I'll not use any cliche's. Now does pretty positive mean anything, or just that you weren't at all positive, but just talking out your rear.
 
#511
#511
BigPapaVol said:
OK, I'll not use any cliche's. Now does pretty positive mean anything, or just that you weren't at all positive, but just talking out your rear.
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It definitely means that KU went 4:27 without a FG. Memphis went 6:39 without a FG.
 
#512
#512
BigPapaVol said:
I suspect that there's been a lot more conversation about that exact change than you have any idea about.
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I am sure there are plenty of conversations that I do not know about. In no way does that mean those conversations are intelligent or that they will ever lead to any real change. I am really amused by your continued *****fest though. Kind of reminds me of some of my friends toddlers!
 
#513
#513
Vercingetorix said:
Maybe not "let everyone go crazy hitting each other," but fouling and FT shooting is boring. I'd enjoy basketball a lot more if there were about five times as many non-calls as there are -- not just at the end of the game, but throughout. These guys are huge, skilled athletes; let them play like men. They don't break when they run into each other.
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But you can't change history. Kansas lost the championship game in 2003 because of uncharacteristically poor free throw shooting down the stretch. Everyone in America has been referring to Kansas as chokers and posers and pretenders for the last five years. Everyone has been very quick to point out that we had no championship since 1988.

Now we do! It is only fitting that the other team's missed free throws play such a big part in this victory. And by the way, shooting almost 94% under tremendous pressure resulted from the team shooting poorly early and OUR coach warning them they needed to step it up or it would come back to bite them. Calipari is, apparently, a big believer in pumping up his players. Self is a big believer in improving his players. Self is a hard guy to play for; you check your ego at the door.
 
#514
#514
Pearlfan said:
But you can't change history.
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I'm not trying to change history; I just don't like some of the things about the way the game of basketball is set up, specifically with regard to foul calls. I mean, it is what it is, obviously; I would just find it a lot more compelling if they they let players have a lot more contact without a foul being called. The way fouls are called seem like an anachronism, IMO, like rules that date from a time when the game was played by slow 5' 9" white guys like myself. Players are so much faster, bigger, and more athletic than they used to be....and yet blocks and charges are still called as though these guys are made of porcelain. Let them play.

(My comments have nothing to do with tonight's game, by the way. The rules are what they are. You have to hit free throws down the stretch to close out a game. Memphis couldn't. Goodnight, Irene.)
 
#515
#515
The only thing that really lost the game for Memphis is Douglas Roberts. He Folded on the FT Line and taking the ball to the Hoop of a stuff instead of pulling it back out is what lost the game. Futhermore almost got the Technical with the ball slam.
 
#516
#516
Sudden Impact said:
The only thing that really lost the game for Memphis is Douglas Roberts. He Folded on the FT Line and taking the ball to the Hoop of a stuff instead of pulling it back out is what lost the game. Futhermore almost got the Technical with the ball slam.
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absolutely ridiculous statement.

It's safe to say you missed the first 38 minutes of the game.
 
#517
#517
HawaiiVol said:
absolutely ridiculous statement.

It's safe to say you missed the first 38 minutes of the game.
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16.2 seconds left and he takes it to the hoop to do one on one instead of dribbling another 9 seconds away before he was fouled. just a thought why he had to go for the two slam instead of holding it and playing chase cost them the game.
 
#519
#519
therealUT said:
I am sure there are plenty of conversations that I do not know about. In no way does that mean those conversations are intelligent or that they will ever lead to any real change. I am really amused by your continued *****fest though. Kind of reminds me of some of my friends toddlers!
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Ouch.
 
#520
#520
milohimself said:
Alright, I'll step up against all you guys. I'm picking Kansas. The advantage Memphis had in guard play over Texas and UCLA will not be as strong against Kansas. Chalmers and Rush are both smart players and physically gifted. Rose and CDR will probably fare better than KU's guards in the matchup, but it will be a lot closer.
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w00t
 
#521
#521
Sudden Impact said:
safe to say you missed the last 30 seconds of regulation.
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I watched the whole game and you can't put the loss squarely on CDR's shoulders. He was the high scorer for crying out loud.

Why not blame Dozier for missing 5-6 shots from within 3 feet. Why not Dorsey for having a stupid foul near the end. Why not whoever threw the inbounds pass that got stolen.

You get the point...
 
#523
#523
Great game last night. Clutch 3 to send it to overtime, crucial freethrows, lead changes abound = everything you want in a NC game.
 
#524
#524
key point about basketball! You can't make baskets if the officials allow a lot of contact. If we played one on one and I hit your arm or pushed you every time you shot, the big round ball would seldom if ever go through the little round hoop. You'd have 42-40 games. Players should learn to move their feet and foul less--that's fundamental basketball. Besides, the officials always call fewer fouls in the tournament and especially in the final four--the mantra is "let them play." So your argument is a bit odd. There is a reason that they've started calling more penalities in the NHL--because the skill players were getting abused by big lugs and nobody could put the puck in the net. We want to see the skill players do their thing.:dance2:
 
#525
#525
BigPapaVol said:
tough to watch the better team play the better game and lose.
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as i watched the game i never had the feeling Memphis was better than KS. IN fact, i thought it very fortunate for Memphis to be in the lead as late as they were. KS stifled their offense, didn't allow them to drive the lanes, and to Memphis's credit, they hit a TON of tough shots, that many other teams won't make. But KS defense controlled that game on the defensive side and Offensively KS got more easy shots and won the inisde game decisively. i guess my point would be that KS established what they wanted to do, executed it, and imposed their will on the defensive side of the court and in the paint...Memphis scratched, clawed and made plays, but i don't think they ever forced KS out of what they wanted to do. the fact that Memphis had a chance to win was a credit to their pure athleticism and talent level. but as a team, i never felt the memphis was just better....put it this way...the two teams were both very, very good at what they do.
volfan55 said:
The better team did play the better game and lost. and no it wasn't the coaches' fault. IT was the stretch of 4 missed FT's in a row that lost it. Last time I checked, Cal didn't shoot one of those.
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eh, have to disagree....up by 9 with two minutes to go.....Memphis had to make several mistakes for KS to win it....and they made them all, including a huge coaching error by not getting his defense set and give out the instructios on the last KS possession with 10 seconds to go....huge mistake on Cal's part. Plus as the 2nd half wore on, i never got the feeling Memphis ever made a great adjustment to how KS was defending the driving lanes. Rose and CDR made some unbelievable plays individually, but as a team, i never thought to myself Memphis had figured it out. Where as Self threw the book at 'em defensively and adjusted all game long.

BigPapaVol said:
I'm not going to pretend that the perfect storm of luck for KU was Calipari's fault. They wiped the floor with KU in the 2nd half, overcame foul trouble nad some strange looking officiating and had their best FT shooters on the line at the end. Those guys missed late FTs and I hate that style of game. Late fouling ruins the game for me.
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while that luck you speak of was in full effect, a lot had to happen for KS to win that game in those last two minutes, most of which was predicated on Memphis making mistakes. And as Memphis made each mistake, KS capitalized. it wasn't like when memphis turned the ball over or missed a free throw they put points on the board for KS.......KS still had to score those 9 points.

BigPapaVol said:
wonder why teams pay coaches, since the better one always wins.

Davidson came from 17 down to beat G'town too, but are in no way the better team.
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they were that day and that's all that matters. that's the funny thing about sudden death tourney vs. a series....a series generally allows the better team to establish themselves over the course of multiple games against the same opponent. a luxury 64 teams over the past 3 weeks did not have.
 
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