Maybe Rick Barnes can hire Cuonzo Martin as an assist

#78
#78
I also wrote this, Einstein:

“It was actually a more difficult path to the Sweet 16 than any of BP’s trips.”

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#79
#79
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Kawhi was a freshman and that team gave Wyoming one of their 3 conference wins. The history is that Pearl could have easily been one-and-done in the 2010 NCAAT. Luck is a huge factor. Pearl didn’t do the equivalent of parting the Red Sea that year like many want to believe.
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Kawhi was a freshman, and San Diego State lost a regular season game they shouldn't? That's what we're going with to mental gymnastics our way into downplaying what Pearl did? I guess Saint Peter's should slow their roll since they beat a Kentucky team with a bunch of freshmen.

We've had the bracket fall apart around us several times with nothing to show for it (2000 and 2018 immediately come to mind). You can hate Pearl all you want, and I don't idolize him, but the fact is no other coach has gotten us as far as he did. You can start counting play-in games or SEC tournament games, but at the end of the day, we were playing later in the season in 2010 than in any other year of our history.

According to KenPom, he beat #40 (SDSU), #94 (Ohio), and #7 (Ohio St). In our 2014 run, it was Martin who nearly farted that season away. You can't equate the 2 runs as being equal since both resulted in 3 wins when one of those runs started in the play-in round. In fact, if Martin had been coaching in 2010 instead of 2014, we would have missed the tournament altogether because the field hadn't expanded to 68 yet. San Diego State as an 11 seed was 10 spots higher ranked than the over-seeded UMass team Martin got to play in 2014. Mercer and Ohio were very similarly ranked (somewhere in the upper 80s, lower 90s). And then Martin lost to #12 Michigan while Pearl beat #7 Ohio State. Objectively Pearl's run was against better teams, so if you're going to explain away Pearl's run as luck, then you'd have to do the same for Martin.
 
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#81
#81
wtmvol said:
Kawhi was a freshman, and San Diego State lost a regular season game they shouldn't? That's what we're going with to mental gymnastics our way into downplaying what Pearl did? I guess Saint Peter's should slow their roll since they beat a Kentucky team with a bunch of freshmen.

We've had the bracket fall apart around us several times with nothing to show for it (2000 and 2018 immediately come to mind). You can hate Pearl all you want, and I don't idolize him, but the fact is no other coach has gotten us as far as he did. You can start counting play-in games or SEC tournament games, but at the end of the day, we were playing later in the season in 2010 than in any other year of our history.

According to KenPom, he beat #40 (SDSU), #94 (Ohio), and #7 (Ohio St). In our 2014 run, it was Martin who nearly farted that season away. You can't equate the 2 runs as being equal since both resulted in 3 wins when one of those runs started in the play-in round. In fact, if Martin had been coaching in 2010 instead of 2014, we would have missed the tournament altogether because the field hadn't expanded to 68 yet. San Diego State as an 11 seed was 10 spots higher ranked than the over-seeded UMass team Martin got to play in 2014. Mercer and Ohio were very similarly ranked (somewhere in the upper 80s, lower 90s). And then Martin lost to #12 Michigan while Pearl beat #7 Ohio State. Objectively Pearl's run was against better teams, so if you're going to explain away Pearl's run as luck, then you'd have to do the same for Martin.
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I wasn’t comparing Pearl’s Elite Eight with Cuonzo’s 3-win Sweet 16 other than reiterating that both were the 3-wins. That was the other poster. But don’t let me get in the way of a good rant.

I’m saying that Pearl’s EE included a great draw and a lot of luck. He nearly went out in the 1st Round. As I said, he didn’t part the sea. He beat tOSU at the right time during the season. An EE still isn’t getting a trophy. Needed one more win to call it a Regional Championship. So we’re celebrating a Regional Runner-Up. Which is nice. I’m fond of all 6 of TN’s modern era SECT championship game appearances. One of them even belongs to Bruce. One is Devoe’s. One is Wade’s. Three are the Deacon’s.
 
#84
#84
PandamoniumReigns said:
More so saying those comparing Cuonzo 3 in a row to Bruce 3 in a row isn't a fair comparison.

If the field wasn't expanded, Cuonzo wouldn't have made it in the NCAAT at all
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The only comparison I’m making is the number of wins. Cuonzo has 3. Bruce has his 3 once. Devoe won 4 of 5. Only Barnes has won four consecutive post regular season games.
 
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#85
#85
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I wasn’t comparing Pearl’s Elite Eight with Cuonzo’s 3-win Sweet 16 other than reiterating that both were the 3-wins. That was the other poster. But don’t let me get in the way of a good rant.

I’m saying that Pearl’s EE included a great draw and a lot of luck. He nearly went out in the 1st Round. As I said, he didn’t part the sea. He beat tOSU at the right time during the season. An EE still isn’t getting a trophy. Needed one more win to call it a Regional Championship. So we’re celebrating a Regional Runner-Up. Which is nice. I’m fond of all 6 of TN’s modern era SECT championship game appearances. One of them even belongs to Bruce. One is Devoe’s. One is Wade’s. Three are the Deacon’s.
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Sorry, you move the goalposts so much, I don't even know what field we're on anymore. You did say that Martin's run in 2014 was tougher than any of Pearl's runs to the Sweet 16. I didn't realize that excluded Pearl's run past the Sweet 16. You're ignoring the fact that Pearl's regular season success got us seeded higher than Martin did - that's not luck - it's the result of having a really good regular season. So yeah, if you're an 11 seed, you don't get the luxury of playing a 15 seed 1st. But even then, I still don't think you're right. In 2008, we beat Butler in the 2nd round, who was objectively better than anyone we beat in the 2014 tournament according to KenPom.

SEC tournament runner-ups are ok, but I thoroughly enjoyed this year's championship much more than any of those. Likewise, if we ever get to a Final 4, our lone Elite 8 will pale in comparison. But for now, that's all we have.
 
#86
#86
wtmvol said:
No need to rewrite history here. First, the point was Bruce took us further in the tournament than any other coach we've ever had. Second, that San Diego State team was pretty dang good. They were 3rd in the MWC behind New Mexico and BYU (with Jimmer Fredette). They also had a guy named Kawhi Leonard. In terms of 11 seeds, I'm not sure I'd call that draw "easy". In fact, that same San Diego State team with nearly the same roster went 32-2 and got a 2 seed the very next season.

Our run in 2014 under Martin would be a much better candidate as an easy/lucky draw.
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SDSU wasn’t that good. But neither were we, really. I think we were only slightly favored in that game.
 
#87
#87
wtmvol said:
Sorry, you move the goalposts so much, I don't even know what field we're on anymore. You did say that Martin's run in 2014 was tougher than any of Pearl's runs to the Sweet 16. I didn't realize that excluded Pearl's run past the Sweet 16. You're ignoring the fact that Pearl's regular season success got us seeded higher than Martin did - that's not luck - it's the result of having a really good regular season. So yeah, if you're an 11 seed, you don't get the luxury of playing a 15 seed 1st. But even then, I still don't think you're right. In 2008, we beat Butler in the 2nd round, who was objectively better than anyone we beat in the 2014 tournament according to KenPom.

SEC tournament runner-ups are ok, but I thoroughly enjoyed this year's championship much more than any of those. Likewise, if we ever get to a Final 4, our lone Elite 8 will pale in comparison. But for now, that's all we have.
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I said that Cuonzo’s Sweet 16 required 3 wins. All of Pearl’s were 2 wins. Therefore it is common sense to suggest that that was more difficult for CCM. That isn’t moving any goal posts. But don’t let me interfere with the rants.
 
#88
#88
golfballs said:
SDSU wasn’t that good. But neither were we, really. I think we were only slightly favored in that game.
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Exactly. Pearl had a great win versus tOSU. Probably the best coach TN could have asked for in that situation. But he’s not a god simply because that win was in the regional semis. His best year was the 31-5 with the #1 ranking.
 
#89
#89
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Exactly. Pearl had a great win versus tOSU. Probably the best coach TN could have asked for in that situation. But he’s not a god simply because that win was in the regional semis. His best year was the 31-5 with the #1 ranking.
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Without a doubt. Fortunately had a high seed because we really fizzled out in the postseason
 
#90
#90
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I said that Cuonzo’s Sweet 16 required 3 wins. All of Pearl’s were 2 wins. Therefore it is common sense to suggest that that was more difficult for CCM. That isn’t moving any goal posts. But don’t let me interfere with the rants.
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LOL - shame on Pearl for only winning 2 games to get to the Sweet 16 - what a loser...

If we go by your logic and say 1 more game definitely means harder path (without looking at who those games were against), and Martin did have a tougher path to the Sweet 16, that's his fault for nearly squandering the talent from that season and ending up in the First 4.

Sorry for the rants - this thread is a good reminder why I typically stick to another forum...
 
#91
#91
wtmvol said:
LOL - shame on Pearl for only winning 2 games to get to the Sweet 16 - what a loser...

If we go by your logic and say 1 more game definitely means harder path (without looking at who those games were against), and Martin did have a tougher path to the Sweet 16, that's his fault for nearly squandering the talent from that season and ending up in the First 4.

Sorry for the rants - this thread is a good reminder why I typically stick to another forum...
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My “logic” is actually my point that only Wade, Cuonzo, Pearl, Devoe, and Barnes have been able to string together 3 consecutive, post regular season wins. Barnes is the only coach with 4 straight.
 
#92
#92
golfballs said:
SDSU wasn’t that good. But neither were we, really. I think we were only slightly favored in that game.
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We were a 3 point favorite, and won by 3. I mean, I'm not saying San Diego St was a Final 4 candidate. In many ways, it was a typical 6 vs 11. Both teams decent, but not great. Just don't think it's fair to say we lucked out by only having to play them instead of some other 11 seed (i.e. Old Dominion that year).
 
#93
#93
wtmvol said:
We were a 3 point favorite, and won by 3. I mean, I'm not saying San Diego St was a Final 4 candidate. In many ways, it was a typical 6 vs 11. Both teams decent, but not great. Just don't think it's fair to say we lucked out by only having to play them instead of some other 11 seed (i.e. Old Dominion that year).
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The extremely lucky part of the Elite Eight run was facing Ohio in the second round instead of Georgetown. Ohio was 5th in the MAC’s eastern DIVISION.
 
#94
#94
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The extremely lucky part of the Elite Eight run was facing Ohio in the second round instead of Georgetown. Ohio was 5th in the MAC’s eastern DIVISION.
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Yeah, I get that. It's the same exact break that Martin got in 2014 when Mercer beat Duke. I'm not even sure how we got here, haha.
 
#97
#97
Y'all debating whether Pearl's Elite 8 run or Martin's Sweet 16 run was better, lol. The most impressive 3-game post-season run in UT history has to be the 1991 SEC Tournament. Wade Houston took a team that went 9-21 in the regular season and finished dead last in the SEC to within 20 minutes of crashing the Big Dance.
 
#98
#98
Chemvol said:
Y'all debating whether Pearl's Elite 8 run or Martin's Sweet 16 run was better, lol. The most impressive 3-game post-season run in UT history has to be the 1991 SEC Tournament. Wade Houston took a team that went 9-21 in the regular season and finished dead last in the SEC to within 20 minutes of crashing the Big Dance.
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Where did anybody say that Martin’s Sweet 16 was better than Pearl’s Elite Eight?
 
#99
#99
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Where did anybody say that Martin’s Sweet 16 was better than Pearl’s Elite Eight?
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Technically UMass was a higher seed than us when Cuonzo beat them. I think only the 4th time we’ve beaten a higher seed in the tournament ever. 1982 we were a 9 and beat 8 seeded Southwest Louisiana. 2007 we were a 5 and beat #4 UVA and then 2010 over 2 seed OSU. Though UVA and UMass were way over seeded. I believe we were favorites in both games. Not sure what the line on that ‘82 game was, but to my knowledge Martin’s win over Iowa and Pearl’s win over OSU are the only upsets we’ve ever had in the tourney
 
#100
#100
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Where did anybody say that Martin’s Sweet 16 was better than Pearl’s Elite Eight?
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The discussion generally seems to be the quality of each coach's three-game run (Pearl's 3-game run to the Elite 8 versus Martin's 3-game run to the Sweet 16), no? I wasn't implying a S16 was better than an E8. Obviously it's not.

I just suggested that Houston's run through the 1991 SECT was far more unlikely; and, therefore, the more impressive three-game post-season run.

I'm just having fun. Carry on.
 
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