Look at us now compared to other programs in the same situation

rocky top buzz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
758
Likes
405
Of course they would, if somehow winning a national title could be guaranteed. Hiring "the right" coach, much less a coach that will win you a title, is far from a sure thing.

Your point about the money we've left on the table over the last 10+ years makes me sick. The start of our decline coincided with the beginning of something of a golden age for the SEC.
Certainly hiring a championship coach is not guaranteed and this philosophy wont work everywhere. But at FSU you have access to a huge talent base and your only consistent competition in the ACC is Clemson. It's an easier path the the playoffs, justifying eating that buyout.
 

AM64

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
9,486
Likes
7,876
I think part of the problem in today's world of college football is that fans expect immediate and instant success. I mean Georgia fans were starting to question if Kirby Smart was the right coach anymore after South Carolina upset them earlier this year. They forget that it's been over 30 years since they won a national championship.

What FSU fans tend to forget is that the program went downhill in Jimbo 's last season. And Jimbo didn't hang around to try and fix it. He jumped ship instead. But then again he was probably feeling pressure from fans. They had to go out and hire Taggart. And instead of letting him fix the problem that he inherited they fired him.
The really ironic part is that the thought of "immediate fixes", "instant success", and "sure things" leave programs all over the map in terms of success. A&M paid a fortune to get a coach whose fortunes at a very successful program took a big dump; you have to wonder about that ... a Bill Battle type decline, or a Phil Fulmer change in staffing problem, or maybe a MI St type disaster a couple of years back? So did A&M jump from the frying pan into the fire? I'm certainly not sold on their course of action at this point. Did FSU simply meet up with improvement at the top in the ACC ... no longer the bully on the block? Remember Bowden picked the ACC for FSU because the lack of competition could lead to national championships.

I'm betting the desire for instant gratification is going to leave a few previously successful programs out wandering in the wilderness like we've done for the past few years. I'm also betting the "professional" ADs rather than ex coach ADs will lead several previously good programs into the wilderness.
 

05_never_again

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
11,339
Likes
7,648
I think part of the problem in today's world of college football is that fans expect immediate and instant success. I mean Georgia fans were starting to question if Kirby Smart was the right coach anymore after South Carolina upset them earlier this year. They forget that it's been over 30 years since they won a national championship.

What FSU fans tend to forget is that the program went downhill in Jimbo 's last season. And Jimbo didn't hang around to try and fix it. He jumped ship instead. But then again he was probably feeling pressure from fans. They had to go out and hire Taggart. And instead of letting him fix the problem that he inherited they fired him.
That's kind of irrelevant though when you look at their recent recruiting rankings/roster, plus combined with the fact they consistently field really good teams. Fans of other schools tell us that all the time. "It's been 21 years since your list national/conference title, you've fallen so far behind Alabama, Georgia, and Florida, Tennessee is never going to be that good again, you need to lower your expectations." I'm assuming you don't accept that notion about Tennessee, and Georgia fans aren't going to accept that notion about their school either.

Pick a team that's never won a national title or even sniffed one in ages...Boston College for instance. If Boston College had top 3 recruiting classes for a bunch of years in a row, their fans wouldn't necessarily be out of bounds for wanting a national title. Or Texas A&M. Their last claimed national title was in 1939 and they've finished in the top 5 just 3 times in their history. They aren't out of bounds for having high expectations given their resources and recruiting.
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
19
Likes
86
What a moronic post - leaving out Dan Mullen, who has UF in the top 15/National conversation for yet another year. I like what Pruitt has done to improve this year but wow this is a stretch
Although I'm sure we would have hired Mulen if he had been available....unfortunately he was never really an option. As soon as UF came calling he was gone.
 
Likes: vettefool

08Vol

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
2,881
Likes
2,603
The problem for all of these guys is that it is just really hard to rebuild a program that plays in a tough conference. No one is going to slow down and let others catch up. Florida wasn't a rebuild so it doesn't compare with the other examples. Mullen had lots of players but he has done a nice job. It will take more time to rebuild Tennessee than any of us want it to take but with our strong fan base and resources, I like our chances more than the other examples given.
The only tough teams we played this year are UA, UGA, & UF. That means our schedule had 9 teams that were somewhere between “a little better than 5A high school” and “decent but nobody would confuse them with an elite team”. This team didn’t need GA State to slow down and let us catch up, they just needed to actually be focused during practice and serious about the game.
 
Last edited:

Tarkus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
818
Likes
862
The only though teams we played this year are UA, UGA, & UF. That means our schedule had 9 teams that were somewhere between “a little better than 5A high school” and “decent but nobody would confuse them with an elite team”. This team didn’t need GA State to slow down and let us catch up, they just needed to actually be focused during practice and serious about the game.
I couldn’t care less about Ga State. If we had won that game, we still wouldn’t be back yet. The whole point of the post was about getting back to elite status and that does mean beating those three teams. Ga State is over and done with I’m looking ahead.
 
Likes: feathersax

08Vol

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 23, 2014
Messages
2,881
Likes
2,603
Talking about a moronic post, Mullen walked into a team with talent that was at least 2 years ahead of us.
You could really see that talent differential when they beat us on a late field goal in 2014. We missed a game winning field goal as time expired in 2015. We beat them by 10 in 2016. They won by 6 on a 63 yd TD on the last play in 2017.

If UF was so far ahead of us talent wise then Butch must have been a really good coach to play them in so many close games. Or maybe the talent was similar and instead of coming in and saying the only way to get better was to recruit over the current players Mullen actually got his current players to buy in and work hard.
 
Likes: VolsSportsFan

Shades

Shady member
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
626
Likes
2,020
Jimbo didn’t exactly leave a stocked cupboard....

As far as Jimbo goes, I think there were more factors at work than just abandoning a rebuilding season. I think he was at odds with the admin over facility upgrades and he was going through a very public, embarrassing and horrible divorce . I think he just needed a fresh start and aTm was right in his wheelhouse from a culture standpoint and 💰💰💰standpoint. I think next year is the year that aTm takes a big step in the West and nationally.
Jimbo is somewhat overrated, and he is Mark Richt version 2, with the exception of the one year he did win the NC.

His Fla St teams were on par with UGA and USCw, in the talent that was underutilized.

Recruiting at Fla St under his tenure was Saban-esque, but his performance was far from Saban-esque. With a very stocked roster, he only managed 3 years with 2 losses or less, and had a couple years with 3 losses, a couple years with 4 losses, and his last year with 6 losses.
2011: #2 recruiting ranking
2012: #4 recruiting ranking
2013: #11 recruiting ranking
2014: #4 recruiting ranking
2015: #3 recruiting ranking
2016: #3 recruiting ranking
2017: #6 recruiting ranking

Jimbo walked into a stocked roster, and left a stocked roster. Talent was not lacking at Fla St. His main problem had always been the culture of the team, undisciplined and little or no consequences for their actions. Taggart inherited a stocked roster, but also inherited this culture. And so will the next coach.
 

EODVOL

Molon labe
Joined
Nov 3, 2012
Messages
785
Likes
1,108
What a moronic post - leaving out Dan Mullen, who has UF in the top 15/National conversation for yet another year. I like what Pruitt has done to improve this year but wow this is a stretch
Nah, Dan walked in to a situation where he was not depleted of talent, especially on the Defense which has kept them relevant. Not to mention the past couple years Florida has had the ball bounce there way a couple times. Also, under Jim McElwain Florida still won the SEC East so it is not like the were a hurting program like those the OP mentioned, so therefore you cannot put Dan in the same argument. I am not completely sold on Dan Mullen we will see how good a coach he is over these next couple years. His Miss St teams were decent but nothing to write home to mom about.
 

Shades

Shady member
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
626
Likes
2,020
You could really see that talent differential when they beat us on a late field goal in 2014. We missed a game winning field goal as time expired in 2015. We beat them by 10 in 2016. They won by 6 on a 63 yd TD on the last play in 2017.

If UF was so far ahead of us talent wise then Butch must have been a really good coach to play them in so many close games. Or maybe the talent was similar and instead of coming in and saying the only way to get better was to recruit over the current players Mullen actually got his current players to buy in and work hard.
UT had a higher 4-year recruiting average than Florida leading up to the hire of Mullen and Pruitt, but there were issues behind those rankings.
1573170809405.png

Both teams have had QB issues in recent years, Dobbs excluded.

Before 2018, we had many high-star recruits that were under-coached and under-performed. Most of the Fla defense has performed at or above recruiting rankings.

Before 2018, we had crappy strength and conditioning, lots of injuries, and were undersized for the SEC. Fla was better on all of those accounts, but UT is closing the gap on all those accounts.

Now we need to find some stellar QB play from somewhere.
 
Likes: 08Vol

AM64

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Messages
9,486
Likes
7,876
UT had a higher 4-year recruiting average than Florida leading up to the hire of Mullen and Pruitt, but there were issues behind those rankings.
View attachment 236629

Both teams have had QB issues in recent years, Dobbs excluded.

Before 2018, we had many high-star recruits that were under-coached and under-performed. Most of the Fla defense has performed at or above recruiting rankings.

Before 2018, we had crappy strength and conditioning, lots of injuries, and were undersized for the SEC. Fla was better on all of those accounts, but UT is closing the gap on all those accounts.

Now we need to find some stellar QB play from somewhere.
Butch did his shopping based on what was on sale ... available high recruiting stars. The problem was that they were a mixed lot and frequently not what he needed to make a complete and cohesive team that fit his warped little east view of a football team. The rankings looked good; they just weren't necessarily SEC performers on the field. The typical case of something looking good on paper, but lacking in application.
 
Likes: Shades

TNnative

Phil is back!
Joined
Oct 21, 2012
Messages
10,278
Likes
7,376
What a moronic post - leaving out Dan Mullen, who has UF in the top 15/National conversation for yet another year. I like what Pruitt has done to improve this year but wow this is a stretch

Well, omissions are the point maker's prerogative. Especially if it makes his point more compelling. A stretch? Yeah but we aren't spraining our brains with stretching.
 

TNnative

Phil is back!
Joined
Oct 21, 2012
Messages
10,278
Likes
7,376
Butch did his shopping based on what was on sale ... available high recruiting stars. The problem was that they were a mixed lot and frequently not what he needed to make a complete and cohesive team that fit his warped little east view of a football team. The rankings looked good; they just weren't necessarily SEC performers on the field. The typical case of something looking good on paper, but lacking in application.
Well, some of his choices were just not correctly managed. He was bringing in good players but utilizing them not as well as he could have. And the S&C program stayed in disarray. You can make a few good points on indiv..NO not saying that word...players but it went beyond recruiting. The true issue was development.
 

RDU VOL#14

I’m a Flawed Character
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
10,824
Likes
8,609
Butch did his shopping based on what was on sale ... available high recruiting stars. The problem was that they were a mixed lot and frequently not what he needed to make a complete and cohesive team that fit his warped little east view of a football team. The rankings looked good; they just weren't necessarily SEC performers on the field. The typical case of something looking good on paper, but lacking in application.
Still, the critical pieces were in place in 2016 . I actually think we were a better “team” in 2015 than 2016 even though we should’ve been better in 16.
 

Obsessed

Well-Known Member
Lab Rat
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
37,400
Likes
14,926
I remember during the time that we hired Jeremy Pruitt, that there were several big name candidates that we wanted and Jeremy Pruit at the time seemed like a consolation prize. Let's see how the other big name coaches are doing:

Scott Frost - he started out bad and his program at this point is nowhere close to what they had envisioned
Chip Kelly - his offense it now outdated
Scott Morris - Arkansas still has not won a SEC game

I would say that we made a pretty good decision in who we hired
EB69D67E-64B3-4D5F-8392-E1F11EF36BE2.jpeg
 

VN Store



Sponsors
 

Top