Latest Marvin West column

#101
#101
VFL-82-JP said:
Jake, sometimes I think you like to argue just to argue, and you take offense when no offense is intended.

When I said your perspective as a fan is skewed, I didn't mean JUST YOU JAKE. I meant all fans. My perspective is skewed. Every other Tennessee fan, too. None of us can be objective, we're all invested in one team or another.

But Vegas isn't. Even if they're not trying to predict outcomes (and we all know they're not, no need to say it again), they remain the ONLY objective source around to define what would or would not be an upset.

*shrug* it's just the world we live in. No personal attack on you.
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:thumbsup:
 
#105
#105
My 2 cents is FL should be favored 3 to 3.5. I would put my money on TN.

That's assuming we beat tech and they get beat by Michigan.
 
#107
#107
and i don't think anyone would be shocked at who wins the game, either way.
 
#108
#108
jakez4ut said:
and i don't think anyone would be shocked at who wins the game, either way.
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That's why I went that way. Since the 14' game, neither has really separated themselves. Outside of a 10 point win last year by UT. The 2 previous games were decided by 1.
 
#109
#109
FL, in my mind, feels more like an upset because we've done so poorly against them over the last 25ish years. the reality is, minus some games in the mid to late 2000's most of the time our teams are peers, and should have, by all rights, had a much more even series over that time frame. as a TN fan, and i'm sure i'm not alone, it just "feels" like a FL win is an upset, just due to rarity.....
 
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#110
#110
I don't know what happens through the first few weeks but that's just based off what both have done recently.
 
#111
#111
jakez4ut said:
and i don't think anyone would be shocked at who wins the game, either way.
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Shock might be a strong term for it, true. But I think a lot of neutral observers, the majority of the nation (who might think of the 2016 Vols victory as a one-off from a long streak in Florida's favor) might see Tennessee going into the Swamp and pulling off a victory as a surprising outcome.

An upset, if you will. Albeit a mild one.
 
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#112
#112
VFL-82-JP said:
Shock might be a strong term for it, true. But I think a lot of neutral observers, the majority of the nation (who might think of the 2016 Vols victory as a one-off from a long streak in Florida's favor) might see Tennessee going into the Swamp and pulling off a victory as a surprising outcome.

An upset, if you will. Albeit a mild one.
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careful JP, you know how i get....dangerously close to starting an argument over the word "shocked".....:mf_surrender:
 
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#113
#113
UF lost by 10, 18, 21, 38 last year.

I can't see that as an upset at this point.
And I don't hear many if any clamoring that they locked in this uear.
 
#114
#114
jakez4ut said:
FL, in my mind, feels more like an upset because we've done so poorly against them over the last 25ish years. the reality is, minus some games in the mid to late 2000's most of the time our teams are peers, and should have, by all rights, had a much more even series over that time frame. as a TN fan, and i'm sure i'm not alone, it just "feels" like a FL win is an upset, just due to rarity.....
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This is a valid point and one that reflects greatly on us as a program. The big difference between an upset win and a rivalry win, and a huge (read: 1998 FL) win, has little to do with our opponents and much more to do with how we view ourselves.

In the 90s, UT looked damn good every year, but couldn't figure out Steve Spurrier, and when we finally finally beat the Gators it was a watershed moment. The UT-FLA series was probably the best in football in the 90s, and the person who claimed it claimed the lion's share of the credibility in the conference. And when we finally won, Tennessee's constant brushes with greatness were validated. We were free to play the year out knowing destiny was in our hands. Everyone was excited, frenzied more accurately, because we believed Tennessee was a winner. When Tennessee got off the bus, people believed UT was for real.

When we beat Florida this past year, it wasn't the same. Yes, we won, but I don't think anyone thought we were suddenly unbeatable or destined to be on top of the world. Sure we were all excited, and it was awesome, but even then we weren't fooling ourselves. I think maybe -- MAYBE -- that changed a little after Georgia. I know when UT roared back at the end of the A&M game, I felt like I did back in the 90s. I believed they had it in them to come back and win. But, well, we know how that went, and all that emotional confidence popped just in time for Alabama to roll in and throttle us.

Until we show the ability to really dominate conference opponents, until we stop losing to converted wide receivers and Vanderbilt and Wil Muschamp, until we're competitive with that school down south of us, we're always going to be in a stop-and-start "upset" mode. We can enjoy wins, but we can't really feel like we're rivals on any great stage. Because I don't think anyone, and especially most Tennessee fans, believe Tennessee is a dominant program right now. 8-4 is slightly above average. And at best, we've been slightly above average in terms of performance and results. Until that changes, we can't really engage in rivalry chatter. But Lord I hope that day is soon. I hope it's real soon.
 
#115
#115
jakez4ut said:
FL, in my mind, feels more like an upset because we've done so poorly against them over the last 25ish years. the reality is, minus some games in the mid to late 2000's most of the time our teams are peers, and should have, by all rights, had a much more even series over that time frame. as a TN fan, and i'm sure i'm not alone, it just "feels" like a FL win is an upset, just due to rarity.....
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I'm right there with you on this. It may not technically be an upset sometimes, but to me it is.
 
#116
#116
jakez4ut said:
FL, in my mind, feels more like an upset because we've done so poorly against them over the last 25ish years. the reality is, minus some games in the mid to late 2000's most of the time our teams are peers, and should have, by all rights, had a much more even series over that time frame. as a TN fan, and i'm sure i'm not alone, it just "feels" like a FL win is an upset, just due to rarity.....
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This stretch is similar to the Zook years to me. Minus Fulmer and Richt
 
#118
#118
Voltopia said:
This is a valid point and one that reflects greatly on us as a program. The big difference between an upset win and a rivalry win, and a huge (read: 1998 FL) win, has little to do with our opponents and much more to do with how we view ourselves.

In the 90s, UT looked damn good every year, but couldn't figure out Steve Spurrier, and when we finally finally beat the Gators it was a watershed moment. The UT-FLA series was probably the best in football in the 90s, and the person who claimed it claimed the lion's share of the credibility in the conference. And when we finally won, Tennessee's constant brushes with greatness were validated. We were free to play the year out knowing destiny was in our hands. Everyone was excited, frenzied more accurately, because we believed Tennessee was a winner. When Tennessee got off the bus, people believed UT was for real.

When we beat Florida this past year, it wasn't the same. Yes, we won, but I don't think anyone thought we were suddenly unbeatable or destined to be on top of the world. Sure we were all excited, and it was awesome, but even then we weren't fooling ourselves. I think maybe -- MAYBE -- that changed a little after Georgia. I know when UT roared back at the end of the A&M game, I felt like I did back in the 90s. I believed they had it in them to come back and win. But, well, we know how that went, and all that emotional confidence popped just in time for Alabama to roll in and throttle us.

Until we show the ability to really dominate conference opponents, until we stop losing to converted wide receivers and Vanderbilt and Wil Muschamp, until we're competitive with that school down south of us, we're always going to be in a stop-and-start "upset" mode. We can enjoy wins, but we can't really feel like we're rivals on any great stage. Because I don't think anyone, and especially most Tennessee fans, believe Tennessee is a dominant program right now. 8-4 is slightly above average. And at best, we've been slightly above average in terms of performance and results. Until that changes, we can't really engage in rivalry chatter. But Lord I hope that day is soon. I hope it's real soon.
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last year was about getting the monkey off our back, if we were ever going to do anything noteworthy with a season.

but i agree, even after that game, it was like "whew, that was awesome, but we still got GA, aTm, Bama etc..."

air got let out of the bag 2nd half of the season for sure.
 
#119
#119
BeecherVol said:
That's why I went that way. Since the 14' game, neither has really separated themselves. Outside of a 10 point win last year by UT. The 2 previous games were decided by 1.
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still amazing. considering. how that game played out, down the way we were...
 
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#121
#121
Behr said:
Yea. I'm not superstitious or anything, but I am when it comes to Florida.

That doesn't have to make sense. It just is what it is. haha.
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no it doesn't, and considering how we've LOST so many of those games....i don't really blame you.
 
#122
#122
jakez4ut said:
no it doesn't, and considering how we've LOST so many of those games....i don't really blame you.
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That 15 game hurt me bad. I'm sure it did everyone else too, but the crowd I was with, I'm thankful It didn't get ugly.
 
#124
#124
Behr said:
That 15 game hurt me bad. I'm sure it did everyone else too, but the crowd I was with, I'm thankful It didn't get ugly.
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14 was no picnic. back to back 1 pt losses. gut punches.

last year felt good. need the "good feelz" to continue.

let's go for 2 in a row this September....
 
#125
#125
BeecherVol said:
Met Spurrier that nite at our hotel.

Great nite.
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even better. you hold up the "one" finger, you know, to show him our current streak?:eek:lol:

on a side note, i took both my daughters to that game last year...their first game in Neyland. they're now my good luck charms.......
 
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