JG and Quarterback Transfers

#176
#176
piratelifeforme said:
But they are not mental aspects of the game. Reading a defense is physical. Although it does not require physical talent to do so, it is not totally mental either. One has to learn what to look for and then common sense should take over to throw the ball where the defender just left since that space will be open. Some of this is on the receiver to get his azz to that spot.

Mentally he KNOWS he needs to read the blitzes and I would safely assume he has been taught HOW to do that, he just does not do it. He has been taught how to check off to a 2nd receiver, he simply does not do so, He knows to get rid of the quicker but he simply does not do them.

Young toddlers know they need to piss in the toilet but they simply do not have the physical ability to do so

So you are saying that EVERY passing play last year he was on his backside? Never did he get time to look off the safety and throw to the other side? He never had time before the snap to check out of a bad play? He NEVER had an opportunity to get rid of the quicker? He had opportunities to do ALL those things, he simply is not physically talented enough to do them.
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I'm confused by your tactics... I never said EVERY, NEVER or ALL... I have said I guess you and I have different opinions over what constitutes physical vs mental. I could use an extreme example of Stephen Hawking. And yes but I know he is dead, for the purpose of this discussion. Put him in front of a class and ask him to explain his theory of eternal inflation and it isn't an issue. Ask him to write on the blackboard or a paper due to his Physical limitations he cant do it.
Ask a 5th grader to put this theory up on the backboard and he can do it, ask him to explain it Nah aint gonna happen. Mental.

Unless you have raised kids ( I have) that might be a bad analogy too. They don't know the need to piss in the toilet they have to be taught (mental) and helped Physically to get pants down.
All I am saying is its hard to judge how badd or good JG can be until some of the more glaring issues are fixed and if he was that bad then surely a Grad transfer would have ben better but he wasn't either.
 
#177
#177
piratelifeforme said:
Watch film, Cromptons issues were between his ears and not physical. JG's issues are physical. He simply cannot read a blitz, he cannot check down a secondary or third receiver, he does not know where to throw it when a blitz is about to crush him. Those are physical issues and not head issues. Kiffin fixed crompton in the head. JG must refuse to learn the physical.
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Wth? Everything problem you mentioned with Guarantano would classify as “between the ears”.
 
#178
#178
piratelifeforme said:
Cause according to that stat, 72% of the time he had a clean pocket........does not sound like an OL problem to me but we all know better than that so the there must be more to the stat.
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You can't say he can't read defenses and let the O Line off the hook at the same time if you're going to point to the clean pocket stat. That's flawed logic, because if you're bragging he had a clean pocket 72% of the time, then that means it's very possible JG made the right presnap adjustments 72% of the time. But again, that's flawed logic. The better thing to note is that more than 1 in 4 of his throws were without a clean pocket. That's too many.
 
#179
#179
piratelifeforme said:
I think if he understood how to do things quicker it would slow down but not the other way around. People on I-40 dont slow down when you are learning to drive, you adjust to their speed and get use to it and now 95mph is not that fast.
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You cannot learn a game and have it slow down for you if you get in a game and you aren't given the time to mentally put into place what you have learned. You can't practice at HS speed and then expect the game to be the same in the SEC on Saturday, especially after you have had your head shoved up your ass two or three times. The game WILL NEVER slow down for him because he does't see what he is supposed to do, do it, and then see the results. Using your analogy, you can't learn to drive at 30 mph and then jump on to I-40 and go 95 in traffic. You will get creamed nearly every time. That's his problem, he can't translate practice to the game because he is sitting on his ass all the time. Then the sitting on his ass all the time translates into freezing in the pocket......even when he has the time, he still freezes because it's different.

Edit: sitting on his ass because he has been knocked down.....not lazy, far from it.
 
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#180
#180
Volumnus 2011 said:
How do you not understand statistics or how to interpret them. This is elementary stuff. He threw the ball 246 times, and when he had a clean pocket he was among the best. But he only threw 246 times. He averaged the same amount of yards per attempt as Drew Lock. That means, had Lock thrown the same amount of passes as JG, he'd have the same yards and vice versa. All this while Tennessee had more drops on catchable balls than any other team in the SEC.
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I understand the stat perfectly....the stat said he was 118-178 with a clean pocket. That means the other throws he had were NOT from a clean pocket. He threw the ball 246 times last year. 246 - 178 is 68. So 68 times he dropped back he did not have a clean pocket. the other 178 times he did have a clean pocket.
 
#181
#181
piratelifeforme said:
I think if he understood how to do things quicker it would slow down but not the other way around. People on I-40 dont slow down when you are learning to drive, you adjust to their speed and get use to it and now 95mph is not that fast.
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and again (sorry), it simply doesn't work the way you are describing. You don't develop muscle memory in a game, it has to be done at practice and then put into place in the game.
 
#182
#182
sjt18 said:
Do you have a statistic that compares short completions? That's a pretty deep analysis that would have to chart where every throw was caught.

My problem with his short passes is more that DC's learned that they could bait JG into throwing them on 3rd down then make the tackle with no 1st down. It happened enough to be noticeable. JG would give up on plays downfield quickly because the dump down looked so open.
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If he gave up on downfield passes to get rid of the ball then how is it he's critiqued for holding onto the ball too long?!

This JG stuff is maddening. Everybody is all over the place with opinions.
 
#183
#183
sjt18 said:
Yes. Mental things are talents.

That's still a mental talent/skill. He does not have the skill. We can't know for sure if he has the innate talent.


He does not have well developed skill. His talent in these other things may simply be so weak that he develops slower... or it could be so weak that he never "gets it".

I hope he can. Seems like a decent kid. He's been loyal. He's taken the beatings. He seems to try hard. I hope he has the talent.
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It seems to me you're wanting to say he isn't very smart but are afraid to cross that line.

I have no idea of his IQ but will say I've seen some damned dumb guys learn a playbook fairly well if the work ethic and the proper coaching were there. I really don't think his intelligence is at issue here but what is at issue is having to learn a new offense every year. And i don't mean just him. The line, the backs, the receivers and the qb all need to be on the same page every snap they are on the field. If one guy effs his role up there is a good chance the qb is going to be on his butt, intercepted or throw an incomplete pass. None of which may be his fault. For me, when guys don't know their assignment, you have a coaching issue. Either your playbook is too involved or you have done a poor job teaching it. IMO this was the issue last year and the reason TH is now in KY coaching. Friend and TH weren't on the same page when it came to teaching the players the playbook. This not only results in blocks missed but also in the demoralizing of the players making the mistakes. Hopefully that gets fixed this season.
 
#184
#184
sjt18 said:
Good QB's have a good idea pre-snap where they're going with the ball on most plays. None can afford to wait until after the snap then take 3 or 4 seconds to make a decision.

He needs to catch up to the speed of the game. I hope he can... but he hasn't in 3 years.
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You and I are heading in the same direction but saying it differently. But, the difference in what we are saying is exactly where JG's problems are. I think he needs time to see some things work yet, I'm not sure that he is sharp enough to work himself out of these issues. That gap between knowing and doing is where he is stuck. Do you think a game or two with a little more time to see things develop at game speed would get him over the hump?
 
#185
#185
NEVolFan said:
Not sure if this has merit.... Crompton sucked until he ran into Lane, and his game turned around. To be fair in our arguments about JG... I think he deserves to be mentored by a true QB coach. And strange to me, is we have a coach who excelled at the position, but is coaching chairs or some such thing. So, beyond JG's poorly developed skills at the position, UT has issues in the coaching ranks for that position. Coaching at QB needs to be addressed... or the next guy up likely will face the same issues.
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Weinke is one of the most overrated Heisman winners of all time.
 
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#186
#186
sjt18 said:
Yes. Mental things are talents.

That's still a mental talent/skill. He does not have the skill. We can't know for sure if he has the innate talent.


He does not have well developed skill. His talent in these other things may simply be so weak that he develops slower... or it could be so weak that he never "gets it".

I hope he can. Seems like a decent kid. He's been loyal. He's taken the beatings. He seems to try hard. I hope he has the talent.
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SJ, your posts are spot on....you have to have years coaching kids under your belt. The way you are describing things, you have to have seen them on the field (diamond or ice) knowing that for some, when the light comes on the sky is the limit and for others, no matter how physically talented they are, the light just doesn't come on.
 
#187
#187
sjt18 said:
Good QB's have a good idea pre-snap where they're going with the ball on most plays. None can afford to wait until after the snap then take 3 or 4 seconds to make a decision.

He needs to catch up to the speed of the game. I hope he can... but he hasn't in 3 years.
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I think therein lies the problem. He's most likely never going to be behind an offensive line that gives him the 3-4 seconds that he needs to run his progressions. Now with yet another OC/QB coach, he's going to have similar struggles in 2019 unless we hire 'the quarterback whisperer'.
 
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#188
#188
sjt18 said:
Do you have a statistic that compares short completions? That's a pretty deep analysis that would have to chart where every throw was caught.

My problem with his short passes is more that DC's learned that they could bait JG into throwing them on 3rd down then make the tackle with no 1st down. It happened enough to be noticeable. JG would give up on plays downfield quickly because the dump down looked so open.
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No idea. All I did was wonder what his YPA was compared to others and go look it up.
 
#190
#190
BeardedVol said:
I think therein lies the problem. He's most likely never going to be behind an offensive line that gives him the 3-4 seconds that he needs to run his progressions. Now with yet another OC/QB coach, he's going to have similar struggles in 2019 unless we hire 'the quarterback whisperer'.
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Yep... Most likely going to be 2020 before we see marked improvement up front.
 
#191
#191
Volumnus 2011 said:
How do you not understand statistics or how to interpret them. This is elementary stuff. He threw the ball 246 times, and when he had a clean pocket he was among the best. But he only threw 246 times. He averaged the same amount of yards per attempt as Drew Lock. That means, had Lock thrown the same amount of passes as JG, he'd have the same yards and vice versa. All this while Tennessee had more drops on catchable balls than any other team in the SEC.
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If the YPA includes YAC, then your assumptions are invalid.
 
#192
#192
bag12day said:
I'm confused by your tactics... I never said EVERY, NEVER or ALL... I have said I guess you and I have different opinions over what constitutes physical vs mental. I could use an extreme example of Stephen Hawking. And yes but I know he is dead, for the purpose of this discussion. Put him in front of a class and ask him to explain his theory of eternal inflation and it isn't an issue. Ask him to write on the blackboard or a paper due to his Physical limitations he cant do it.
Ask a 5th grader to put this theory up on the backboard and he can do it, ask him to explain it Nah aint gonna happen. Mental.

Unless you have raised kids ( I have) that might be a bad analogy too. They don't know the need to piss in the toilet they have to be taught (mental) and helped Physically to get pants down.
All I am saying is its hard to judge how badd or good JG can be until some of the more glaring issues are fixed and if he was that bad then surely a Grad transfer would have ben better but he wasn't either.
Click to expand...
1545948778601.jpeg
 
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#196
#196
GetYouSomeofThat said:
It seems to me you're wanting to say he isn't very smart but are afraid to cross that line.

I have no idea of his IQ but will say I've seen some damned dumb guys learn a playbook fairly well if the work ethic and the proper coaching were there. I really don't think his intelligence is at issue here but what is at issue is having to learn a new offense every year. And i don't mean just him. The line, the backs, the receivers and the qb all need to be on the same page every snap they are on the field. If one guy effs his role up there is a good chance the qb is going to be on his butt, intercepted or throw an incomplete pass. None of which may be his fault. For me, when guys don't know their assignment, you have a coaching issue. Either your playbook is too involved or you have done a poor job teaching it. IMO this was the issue last year and the reason TH is now in KY coaching. Friend and TH weren't on the same page when it came to teaching the players the playbook. This not only results in blocks missed but also in the demoralizing of the players making the mistakes. Hopefully that gets fixed this season.
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Cough Tyler Bray cough
Cough Casey Clausen cough
 
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