Jalen's Mom has a Message Regarding his Underage Consumption

[davethevol]

For the last time, I've been talking about Carson-Newman. I haven't said anything about an outside school. You're the one that came on here and said that I'm doing my job wrong at Carson-Newman. I am currently getting my education in communication and know quite a bit about the law. I work for Carson-Newman. I've been an RA for 2 years now, going on 3. Please tell me how you know everything about my school's policies.

I'm telling you what the LAW states, not what your school policies state. Again, go educate yourself on actual state laws so you don't sound like such a fool.

 

[LA Vol]

Good for her! The Tennessee media seems to love portraying UT players in the least flattering light. If there are positive facts, they omit them. If there are negative facts, they play them up. If they can blow a small thing into a big thing, they do it. They don't cast stones; they hurl them.

A 19-year-old college kid having an open beverage in his dorm room-- how newsworthy!

 

[HardKnoxVol]

And I, as someone not involved at all in this discussion, am not attacking your actions. But "rules" are not laws, and sometimes said rules conflict with binding laws. You're following the rules set forth by your organization and its up to the rule makers at your place of employment to consult legal counsel to determine their legality. I doubt a place as big as UT did not seek legal counsel, but even so there are always differing interpretations of laws.

Do as you please, I'm certainly in no position to direct anyone but your posts come across as though you know with scientific certainty you are acting in full accordance with the law when in fact, 2 years from now and a lawsuit later your rules could change. Maybe just say our rules state such and they're legal as far as I know, or atleast have yet to be contested.

I'm sorry you read them that way. I never once said anything about any other school. I was defending my job at Carson-Newman, not any other school. I find it offensive when some people get on here and tell me that I'm doing my job wrong when they don't know a thing about my school's policies. Everything I've stated has been based on my own experiences as an RA. As an RA at a private university, such as CN, we reserve the right to search rooms due to suspicious/illegal activity, even if the resident allows us or not. 4th amendment only applies to government officials (unreasonable search and seizure). I keep trying to tell him that and he won't listen.

 

[HardKnoxVol]

I'm telling you what the LAW states, not what your school policies state. Again, go educate yourself on actual state laws so you don't sound like such a fool.

AGAIN, the 4th amendment in the U.S. Constitution is only effective for government officials.

Not every search and seizure that is scrutinized in state and federal court raises a Fourth Amendment issue. The Fourth Amendment only protects against searches and seizures conducted by the government or pursuant to governmental direction.

 

[HardKnoxVol]

I'm telling you what the LAW states, not what your school policies state. Again, go educate yourself on actual state laws so you don't sound like such a fool.

Seems like you need to educate yourself on federal laws and not be such an idiot. The phrase "Ignorance is bliss" would apply to you. Don't come on here and tell me how to do my job. Our policies have been this way for years. We alongside the police on our policies. Our university would not allow us to do something that goes against the law. We have never been contested. Students sign the letter. They "read" the guidebook that states what is illegal in the dorms. #1 is alcohol, drugs, and weapons. They also know that we are allowed to conduct room searches if we have any suspicion. They also know that if they are underage, then they will face consequences from authorities. Don't be stupid and bring alcohol in the dorms where we emphasize all the time that it is illegal.

 

[volglass]

No I'm not. I know that residence life is not going to act outside of the law. I'm refuting this because this guy thinks I'm illegally doing things as RA. I'm just doing my job and upholding the rules that the university provides. That's my job.

Many many people have "just done their job" and it's illegal. Just giving you a heads up that people and entities do illegal stuff all the time and say it's their policy. I DO know for a fact that landlords cannot do the searches that you described. And I do know for a fact that the University of Tennessee's policy is different than yours. The only way it's OK for you is if there are different rules because it's a private university and I don't know that answer but neither do you, definitively.

 

[davethevol]

Seems like you need to educate yourself on federal laws and not be such an idiot

I've already provided a link to the LAW for TENNESSEE that states what you cannot do. You are amazingly obtuse.

 

[HardKnoxVol]

I've already provided a link to the LAW for TENNESSEE that states what you cannot do. You are amazingly obtuse.

Once again, private schools vs landlords. Different.

The leading case on this subject is New Jersey v. T.L.O., the 1985 U.S. Supreme Court decision that set the standard for school search and seizure policy. At a New Jersey high school, a teacher caught T.L.O.* a freshman girl smoking in the bathroom. The girl was taken to the principal′s office, where she denied everything. The assistant principal demanded to see her purse and proceeded to open and search it.

marijuanaleaf1He found a pack of cigarettes, a small amount of marijuana, a marijuana pipe, empty plastic bags, a substantial number of $1 bills, an index card listing students who owed her money, and two letters that suggested she was dealing drugs. When the girl confessed to the police that she had been selling marijuana at school, she was charged and placed on probation. [Photo by DoobyBrain (Flickr)]

The court debated whether the search of her purse was a violation of the Fourth Amendment. The court ruled that a school official may conduct a search of a student if there is a “reasonable suspicion” that a crime has been or is in the process of being committed, or that a school rule has been broken. Since T.L.O. was seen smoking but denied it, the principal had reasonable suspicion to conduct the initial search of her purse. Then when he found not only cigarettes but marijuana he was justified in continuing to search for contraband.
- See more at: Search and Seizure in Schools

 

[StarRaider]

Back in 1978 our dorm floor would enter a newspaper contest to win 10 cases of Bud for picking football game winners ...and we would enter hundreds or thousands of times per week... well we won 10 cases of beer the night before the '78 bama game and iced 'em down in garbage cans in the showers. The night festivities eventually resulted in the Kerns Bread truck incident on Cumberland Ave when the truck got stopped by the crowd on the street and my roommate opened up the door on the back of the trailer. mmmm Bud and buns! The Daily Beacon had a cartoon about it the next week. The campus was dry then too.

 

[HardKnoxVol]

Also, at CN, we conduct monthly room checks whether they're in there or not. If you want to live in our dorms, you agree to this as well. These differ from room searches. Health and safety checks are meant to make sure you are living neatly and there is nothing that will conflict with resident health. Basically, we make sure you don't have things plugged in the wrong way because it's a fire hazard. But in the case of room searches, schools are allowed to do that because it could possibly interfere with the overall safety of the residents

 

[TNinOR]

.

 

[UT_Tix79]

I went on a recruiting visit to a small school in KY back in my playing days, and as part of our walk through they showed us the living quarters. Opened the doors to one room, and their were liquor bottles and a naked chick passed out in the bed.

Prior to showing us the rooms, in a meeting with our parents they stated it was a dry campus and no alcohol was allowed, and that the dorms were single sex only and girls were not allowed in the rooms.

I still wonder if they did it on purpose to show us you could still have fun there, but honestly, a little drinking is not an issue, at all...

 

[tennrich1]

The moral of this story is....Don't loan your car to anyone. That's how all this got started. Then the police have no reason to visit you at home looking for the owner. Unfortunately if you open your door and in plain site there are illegal things going on .....your just caught. My problem with all arrests athletes or no is these guys seem to forget how out is to be young. Most of them hold these kids to standard's that they themselves didn't live by. Just saying

By all indications Jalen is a fine young man...but police have an incredibility tough job...whereas in the past a nice talking to could handle most incidents, TRUST ME, those days are long long gone (for the most part)...Just imagine you are the officer responding to a seeming mild incident and can handle it with a little common sense BUT later on the mild incident is somehow connected to a much larger incident where people are hurt, killed etc....THEN guess who becomes a HUGE part of a seeming mild incident?? The officer will be raked, and I mean raked over the proverbial coals for not doing his job and worst yet being neglegent...and when its over he's called everything imaginable....and his career is OVER not be mention people calling for his head...As far as Jalen goes....TRUST ME again...the police hear "someone was using my car" on just about every incident they investigate....and I'm honestly grateful that Jalen has a mother who actually cares what happens to her son....I've met her and found her to be a sweet, kind, loving mother....Thanks mom for helping clear the record....Go Vols...and remember....the police RARELY are the problem....not NEVER....but RARELY...and when the police are proclaimed the problem..I recommend looking behind the curtain to see who really is the problem....

 

[HardKnoxVol]

Many many people have "just done their job" and it's illegal. Just giving you a heads up that people and entities do illegal stuff all the time and say it's their policy. I DO know for a fact that landlords cannot do the searches that you described. And I do know for a fact that the University of Tennessee's policy is different than yours. The only way it's OK for you is if there are different rules because it's a private university and I don't know that answer but neither do you, definitively.

I've said this. Private universities are different from public places and universities.

"Entry may be made at any time, whether or not
the resident is present, and without prior notice to the resident, if
emergency, health, or safety circumstances warrant such entry or if
there are reasonable grounds to believe that any substance, material,
or item is being kept or used on the premises in any manner prohibited
by law, by this Agreement, or by the rules/regulations of the University.

 

[davethevol]

Once again, private schools vs landlords. Different.

The leading case on this subject is New Jersey v. T.L.O., the 1985 U.S. Supreme Court decision that set the standard for school search and seizure policy. At a New Jersey high school, a teacher caught T.L.O.* a freshman girl smoking in the bathroom. The girl was taken to the principal′s office, where she denied everything. The assistant principal demanded to see her purse and proceeded to open and search it.

marijuanaleaf1He found a pack of cigarettes, a small amount of marijuana, a marijuana pipe, empty plastic bags, a substantial number of $1 bills, an index card listing students who owed her money, and two letters that suggested she was dealing drugs. When the girl confessed to the police that she had been selling marijuana at school, she was charged and placed on probation. [Photo by DoobyBrain (Flickr)]

The court debated whether the search of her purse was a violation of the Fourth Amendment. The court ruled that a school official may conduct a search of a student if there is a “reasonable suspicion” that a crime has been or is in the process of being committed, or that a school rule has been broken. Since T.L.O. was seen smoking but denied it, the principal had reasonable suspicion to conduct the initial search of her purse. Then when he found not only cigarettes but marijuana he was justified in continuing to search for contraband.
- See more at: Search and Seizure in Schools

Your link has nothing to with places of residence. Provide just 1 link to any ruling for the state of TN or supreme court that shows the authority to enter a residence.

And you keep getting hung up on private schools. It doesn't matter. Do you think that a hotel isn't private property, or that an apartment complex isn't private property? They can impose rules on behavior and things like "no pets," "no loud music," but they still cannot enter the place of dwelling without advanced notice or consent of the person in the dwelling. You are so wrong on this that it isn't even funny.

This is from the State of TN law regarding access. This applies to all hotels, apartments, and dorms.

66 28 403. Access by landlord.

(a) The tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to the landlord to enter into the dwelling unit in order to inspect the premises, make necessary or agreed repairs, decorations, alterations, or improvements, supply necessary or agreed services, or exhibit the dwelling unit to prospective or actual purchasers, mortgagees, tenants, workers or contractors.

(b) The landlord may enter the dwelling unit without consent of the tenant in case of emergency. "Emergency" means a sudden, generally unexpected occurrence or set of circumstances demanding immediate action.

(c) The landlord shall not abuse the right of access or use it to harass the tenant.

(d) The landlord has no right of access except:

(1) By court order;

(2) As permitted by §§66-28-506 and 66-28-507(b);

(3) If the tenant has abandoned or surrendered the premises; or

(4) If the tenant is deceased, incapacitated or incarcerated.


And yes, Carson Newman is technically the landlord even though you are going to say they aren't.

 

[UNGVol]

Many many people have "just done their job" and it's illegal. Just giving you a heads up that people and entities do illegal stuff all the time and say it's their policy. I DO know for a fact that landlords cannot do the searches that you described. And I do know for a fact that the University of Tennessee's policy is different than yours. The only way it's OK for you is if there are different rules because it's a private university and I don't know that answer but neither do you, definitively.

As an RA, the way that dorms are treated has absolutely nothing to do with landlords. It is at the discretion of the university,and most always, with buildings filled with under age residents, there is a no alcohol policy. They way that the Hurd situation was handled appears to be completely LEGAL. With that being said, it is aggravating that their are such consequences for someone like Hurd who is minding his own business in the privacy of his dorm room. Nonetheless, it is legal.

 

[Purplehaze26]

kids - can't you exchange email addr. to fight about university law? You wasted 5 pages of posts to spew your garbage!

 

[chargervol]

No it is not. On holiday breaks, such as Christmas break, students are not allowed to stay in the dorms unless they are an athlete that is still active during December. Even our international students have to go home, unless they have a valid reason. Residents are not tenants.

This was taken from school training.com
"As a general matter, resident assistants; dorm supervisors, and the like are not bound by the 4th Amendment in the same manner as police officers. They generally are operating pursuant to a provision in the university/college handbook which allows for the health and welfare check, which, at the same time, diminishes or eliminates the expectation of privacy of the dorm resident. It is important to note that resident assistants/dorm supervisors in a private college/university are not bound by the 4th Amendment since they are not government actors. Thus, in the private university setting there is no constitutional issue when dealing with a seizure by a resident assistant of dorm supervisor."

Not going back and checking but wasn't your original point that the officers could have entered because you
(an RA) could. If so, this post negates the entire premise of the original debate.

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

You're wrong. Yes, you have people sign documents saying you have the authority to come in. Guess what? Those are not legally binding and if you enter when a student tells you that you can't come in, then you can potentially go to jail or get sued.

You should check out this link. It might save you in the future, because someone gave you bad advice and did not inform you of what the law states. State Laws on Landlord

Completely different circumstances. Does not apply. Difference in private vs Public. UT is a public University funded by the state of Tennessee.

I'm pretty sure that one of the job requirements of an RA is to know and understand what is required and what is not. Just sayin.

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

Yep. It's just like when you stay at a hotel. No one can from the hotel can enter your room without your consent. This RA is misinformed and I do know 100% without a doubt what the law allows. And the fact that I've provided a link to what the occupancy laws are for every state and a video of police illegally entering while he's provided nothing other than the BS he's been taught are sad. People really need to understand their rights.

Its not private property. It's public property owned by the state and the University. When you occupy a room in the dorm you pay a fee to utilize it. It's not considered rent, it's a fee for the rooms use. Its dictated by public policy and is governed by the state legislature.

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

You're the one that came here talking about yourself and your school. If you can't handle the reality of the situation, then that's on you. The fact that you're having meltdowns instead of actually looking outside your university's "policies" and truly learning what that law states says a lot about you as a person. You should make good use of your time their and talk to someone that is a law professor. Educate yourself instead of regurgitating what you've been told.

Come on dude! Do you really believe that Carson Newman hasn't employed some pretty smart people to make sure that their policies were above reproach? I mean do you seriously think they would instruct RA's on policy without first making sure they fell within the law?

And if they weren't put in place according to the law, that by now someone would have either taken them to court and sued them or forced them to be changed? It's not like CNU just came into existence this past week. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't blatantly break the law as your suggesting.

 

[davethevol]

Its not private property. It's public property owned by the state and the University. When you occupy a room in the dorm you pay a fee to utilize it. It's not considered rent, it's a fee for the rooms use. Its dictated by public policy and is governed by the state legislature.

Residential laws still apply. You can't make something that's illegal into something that's legal. You can't say, "well since its owned by the state the rape laws don't apply here."

 

[davethevol]

Come on dude! Do you really believe that Carson Newman hasn't employed some pretty smart people to make sure that their policies were above reproach? I mean do you seriously think they would instruct RA's on policy without first making sure they fell within the law?

And if they weren't put in place according to the law, that by now someone would have either taken them to court and sued them or forced them to be changed? It's not like CNU just came into existence this past week. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't blatantly break the law as your suggesting.

I'll leave it at this: I have studied this law in depth for years and have had many courses on it and other laws. Institutions constantly make policies that are don't carry any legal weight. They most likely have had very few students ever deny access to their rooms, because if they do then they will get kicked out of school. So out of fear for that, the students grant access to the room and the search becomes legal at that point.

But since you are in denial and also have no idea how the law works, go back and watch the YouTube video I posted.

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

Residential laws still apply. You can't make something that's illegal into something that's legal. You can't say, "well since its owned by the state the rape laws don't apply here."

No they don't. Its public use, totally different. Doesn't even remotely apply in this situation. Just like when you walk into a courthouse you are consenting to a search. Your expectation of privacy no longer applies because the greater good of "public" safety overrides those expectation. Same at UT.

Residential laws apply to privately owned properties. Anything that is not private is owned by either the State or Federal Government.

 

[peppervol]

I miss the days of alcohol, drugs and debauchery on college campuses. I'm so glad I went to college in the early 80's.

Should have been there in the mid-to-late 60's and I remember every bit of it. Magical