Its over [hiring pause]

#176
#176
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Jimmy Sexton and other agents would like to say, "My client isn't entertaining deals of that nature. Here's my card, please feel free to contact me with further offers. It's been a great meeting, but I believe we're done here."

There's zero incentive for a coach to take that kind of deal when they can get a better deal elsewhere.

Pipe dream. And put down the pipe.
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Then you give that opportunity to someone who will take it.... or you just accept that guys like Jones and Pruitt can command money they have not earned either by establishing market value or performance once hired.

The only way to stop madness... is to stop madness.
 
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#177
#177
MAUSERWERKE said:
The problem is what ever school "goes first" to change the market will be at an immediate competitive disadvantage to the others. All the schools would have to agree in advance to "change the market" and that would likely be an illegal restraint of trade. Conspiring to fix the market. Those are the real world constraints.
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Or they'll demonstrate the worth both to the school AND the person being hired.... if they're successful. The definition of insanity applies here.... Most programs will hire coaches that they ultimately have to fire. The coaches are NOT worth the money being paid.

This isn't even a "tight" market. There are lots of guys who want to coach at that level. Some are FCS coaches with ability. I don't believe that the "best" are necessarily being revealed by the status quo.
 
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#179
#179
MWAVolfan said:
You have the option, but it's not done that way. You agree to be the CEO (or head coach) for X years for X dollars regardless of performance. We will give you X dollars more if you achieve Y and if you dont maybe we wont ask you back after your contract is up.
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That's not true of CEO's typically. Virtually all contracts are written with minimum performance expectations.

However people dont sign contracts based on the "bonus" incentives. They sign them based on the base level of guaranteed money. the bonus incentives are just gravy.
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You do understand that there are two sides to a negotiation, right? The coach has to decide if he believes he can meet the minimum requirements and EARN the incentive money. The "way it is"... does not have to be the way it is going to be. As long as schools do insane things that are NOT market based then they'll continue to be held hostage by the costs of firing a guy who isn't doing his job well.

There is absolutely no reason that performance should not impact buyouts.

I wont be your head coach for less than 5 mil a year guaranteed money. If you want to give me 7 mil if I win 10 games that's on you, but I'm not signing any contract that takes my base pay from 5 mil to 2 mil if I sh!t the bed. You wont see a contract signed like that. The stress and time commitment of being a CEO or a head coach is too much and people simply wont do it.
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OK. See ya. There are guys earning a million dollars or less who are winning at their level of competition. I would rather pay them than over pay YOU.
 
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#180
#180
sjt18 said:
Then you give that opportunity to someone who will take it.... or you just accept that guys like Jones and Pruitt can command money they have not earned either by establishing market value or performance once hired.

The only way to stop madness... is to stop madness.
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The free market system isn't madness. Sorry.

Offer inferior contracts, get inferior employees. That's not just sports, that's anywhere.

Salaries and perks for highly skilled in a specific position workers are weighted toward those highly skilled workers. Salaries and perks for your average unskilled grocery store/big box clerk are weighted toward the employer.

Past that, if you have incompetent, uncaring, self protecting people HIRING skilled positions they'll hire poor worker with inflated salaries and perks. This, too, is not uncommon in businesses...... AND....... ahem, sports programs.
 
#181
#181
If we can't hire freeze due to the SEC, then I'd be okay with Herman. There's still guys like Chadwell, Campbell, Napier. Looks like the Drinkwitz hire for Missouri is working out pretty well, hiring a guy that has HC experience and is a proven winner is a must. Probably need an offensive guy as well.
 
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#182
#182
peyton4heisman said:
I think we are searching for the next coach right now. They are using this ā€œinvestigationā€ so they can search outside of the public eye. They want to avoid another Schiano situation and/or some other form of humiliation that inevitably happens during every coaching search
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I hope you are right....
 
#183
#183
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
The free market system isn't madness. Sorry.

Offer inferior contracts, get inferior employees. That's not just sports, that's anywhere.

Salaries and perks for highly skilled in a specific position workers are weighted toward those highly skilled workers. Salaries and perks for your average unskilled grocery store/big box clerk are weighted toward the employer.

Past that, if you have incompetent, uncaring, self protecting people HIRING skilled positions they'll hire poor worker with inflated salaries and perks. This, too, is not uncommon in businesses...... AND....... ahem, sports programs.
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That's only accurate if offering contracts skewed completely in the coach's favor, directly correlates to getting a good coach, and the more it is skewed, the better the coach.

That's not the case. The skew in contracts towards to coach's favor, has zero to do with actual market dynamics.
 
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#184
#184
I know it seems like this administration is incompetent but I actually would argue otherwise. I think we're in good hands with Plowman and Boyd
 
#185
#185
rdk4121 said:
If we can't hire freeze due to the SEC, then I'd be okay with Herman. There's still guys like Chadwell, Campbell, Napier. Looks like the Drinkwitz hire for Missouri is working out pretty well, hiring a guy that has HC experience and is a proven winner is a must. Probably need an offensive guy as well.
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My biggest reservation about Herman is in recruiting. He's never had to recruit much outside of the state of Texas and he also let Alabama and Ohio State absolutely raid Texas of it's best athletes. Now some would argue that Alabama and Ohio State do that everywhere but still.
 
#187
#187
DULL_BOY said:
This is my point. Everyone here was so worried about Kiffin getting us in NCAA recruiting violations...and USC hired him away with all their problems at the time.
Kiffin ainā€™t Freeze obviously....but USC was way deeper in the $#!T than we are...they werenā€™t worried about it. If youā€™re gonna stay in line then youā€™re gonna stay in line. Baggage or no baggage.
Does that mean they wouldnā€™t hire Freeze because of this? No. There is a better chance of them not hiring Freeze simply because he would win here....hiring losers is the only consistent thing the powers that be have done here since Hamilton didnā€™t hire Bryan Kelly or Gary Patterson instead of Kiffin.
The safest hire is Gus Malzahn....but he has sucked against Georgia only having beat them twice since 2013...although most of those games were close.
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Kiffin had no prior violations at the time. I am saying that UT will likely not hire Freeze based on the current situation. I donā€™t trust our admins to make a home run hire like that.
 
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#188
#188
BeardedVol said:
That's only accurate if offering contracts skewed completely in the coach's favor, directly correlates to getting a good coach, and the more it is skewed, the better the coach.

That's not the case. The skew in contracts towards to coach's favor, has zero to do with actual market dynamics.
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It's an odds thing. Washington just wasted a bunch of money on Dwayne Haskins who SHOULD have been on the path to being a great NFL QB AND got a rookie contract that reflected that. He had the pedigree, the numbers at OSU were record setting, the physical mechanics were great....... and, he's a head case apparently. So toxic they'd rather not have him in their VERY thin QB room before the final game when they're trying to get in the playoffs. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

The market pricing is a failure if you look at Haskins, so the Jags would do well to avoid paying a premium for Lawrence or Fields because great prospect QBs go wrong? Nah...... the odds are still there for college star QBs.

If you're taking a swipe at Sexton, he's just using market dynamics to do the best for his clients. Sometimes they bust, yeah, but the contracts speak for themselves....... the market continues to PAY those coaches because the market WANTS those coaches.
 
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#189
#189
The fans of this storied program deserve better than what this administration has put them through.
 
#192
#192
Question:

Are the pumpers about to turn into NegaVols, and are we about to turn into pumpers?


2021..........strange!
 
#194
#194
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
The free market system isn't madness. Sorry.
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Nope. And these supposed "negotiations" where only ONE SIDE dictates terms has nothing to do with "free market". It is what happens when "academic leaders" get involved.

Offer inferior contracts, get inferior employees. That's not just sports, that's anywhere.
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Ummmm... not to state the obvious but UT has now 3 times given a contract you think is market justified... to get what? This same insane, anti-market strategy is repeated across CFB. Everyone is overpaying for losers. If corporate golden parachutes were wrong and offensive... then these buyouts should be much more so.

Salaries and perks for highly skilled in a specific position workers are weighted toward those highly skilled workers. Salaries and perks for your average unskilled grocery store/big box clerk are weighted toward the employer.
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Not exactly. Uniquely skilled workers have an advantage. There are over 250 HC's in D 1 football.... over 500 coordinators. There are a handful who are proven... uniquely qualified. The rest when hired as a new HC are being paid essentially so they can be fired a few years later... and get big payouts. The market... would never tolerate that kind of idiocy.

Do you really think there aren't several unrecognized coaches out of that 750... plus those at D2 schools who could have produced 3 wins and 7 blowout losses with this year's roster?

Past that, if you have incompetent, uncaring, self protecting people HIRING skilled positions they'll hire poor worker with inflated salaries and perks. This, too, is not uncommon in businesses...... AND....... ahem, sports programs.
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Except it isn't unique to UT. Pretty much everyone who isn't winning... is repeating the same insane, anti-market types of deals.
 
#196
#196
BeardedVol said:
That's only accurate if offering contracts skewed completely in the coach's favor, directly correlates to getting a good coach, and the more it is skewed, the better the coach.

That's not the case. The skew in contracts towards to coach's favor, has zero to do with actual market dynamics.
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ABSOLUTELY TRUE. It is what happens when people who do NOT live in the "market" try to negotiate a contract.
 
#199
#199
photovol said:
Its hard to believe anything at all from the Media these days, I mean anything!
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LOL. Spoken like someone who lived thru the last hiring fiasco and the OC hire. You are 100% correct. Fake news and the people demanding it are is as predictable as the sun rising tomorrow.
 
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