Is signing a PG a must?

[glv98]

First, glv98, hopefully things at work are improving as the days/weeks pass; I've thought about you (and, of course, all such professionals) a lot recently. God Bless You!

Thanks very much. Just when we felt kind of in control, everything is opening up now so we'll be getting our regular case load (elective surg back next week) plus the fairly steady stream of covids which are incredibly high acuity pts. We're very tired of the tension and downhearted that it looks like its going to drag on for awhile. But we do what we have to do. As you've probably seen on tv, the hardest part is not having the families be able to be there and having to in some way sub for them and also have to give bad news on the phone. It's really hard, grinding. Thanks for the thoughts.

agree and I see who they're working to acquire in 2021, but I also hope they go out and get a SR transfer PG for one year for this year to back her up and like you say, for unexpected turns

I wonder if hard to get a Sr or grad transfer who just has one year to be a backup? The better ones probably want to play more I'm afraid.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Thanks very much. Just when we felt kind of in control, everything is opening up now so we'll be getting our regular case load (elective surg back next week) plus the fairly steady stream of covids which are incredibly high acuity pts. We're very tired of the tension and downhearted that it looks like its going to drag on for awhile. But we do what we have to do. As you've probably seen on tv, the hardest part is not having the families be able to be there and having to in some way sub for them and also have to give bad news on the phone. It's really hard, grinding. Thanks for the thoughts.

I wonder if hard to get a Sr or grad transfer who just has one year to be a backup? The better ones probably want to play more I'm afraid.

That's just is if we can land Brooklynn in 2021 we have the better one in the wings,,,right now we need the a single year PG transfer like Keyen is. Keyen fell under everyone's radar, yet she looks to be a great fit. I am sure that same scenario is out there in PG land

 

[GameTime]

That's just is if we can land Brooklynn in 2021 we have the better one in the wings,,,right now we need the a single year PG transfer like Keyen is. Keyen fell under everyone's radar, yet she looks to be a great fit. I am sure that same scenario is out there in PG land

 

[Coach Jumper]

I like it, the pirates gold,,hidden treasure,,,aaarrrggghhh

 

[Volfaninfl2]

First, glv98, hopefully things at work are improving as the days/weeks pass; I've thought about you (and, of course, all such professionals) a lot recently. God Bless You!

Second: WOW! What a refreshing - BASKETBALL - thread! Many of you - Volfan2012, T.J., Jumper, Madtown, and others ...great effort! And, ALL about BASKETBALL!

I think I agree with all of you; and in fact, I think we all agree, to a "point." We all want the same thing here.
I'm a Jordan Horston fan. She is magnificent player. Jumper is likely correct that her freshman-to-sophomore jump (no pun) will amaze us; there's too much talent and determination in that Lady Vol to expect otherwise.
I'm excited (always have been) to watch Rae Burrell. I think her confidence will increase to the point that she sees the court better, becomes a more consistent player. All-American? Could be. She's awfully talented.
While I still expect a point guard addition, it wouldn't be overly surprising to see Tess, Destiny, Marta, and yes, my girl Jessie play the point. To put it another way, Coach Kellie will have more motion in our offense as we move forward, which will inherently have different players assuming bigger roles at different places on the court. For instance, Jordan passes the ball, races to the low post (against the five-five defender) and Bob's your uncle. We will have more players who can hit shots from several places on the court; (OMO, but) Motion will create opportunities for this more-diverse type of attack. When you (as a team, and individually) can hit shots from a variety of positions/locations, the emphasis is shifted more to getting a player a shot, with less concern of who that player is.
Our team - Coach Kellie's vision - is coming into focus. It will not necessarily be of the quick-fix variety, but it will be beautiful to behold!
Yep, had a lotta good, strong coffee this morning!
Cheers!

Krichunaka, you nailed it. We had movement last year, but not enough scorers. So many times during last season we would pass enough that someone was open, but oftentimes it was a non scorer who was open. It was like, what’s the point? All that ball movement, and the open player couldn’t score. Defense is important, but you can’t waste an offensive position on the floor, with a non-scorer. Looks like Kellie is recruiting scorers (defense can be taught). GLV!

 

[GameTime]

Krichunaka, you nailed it. We had movement last year, but not enough scorers. So many times during last season we would pass enough that someone was open, but oftentimes it was a non scorer who was open. It was like, what’s the point? All that ball movement, and the open player couldn’t score. Defense is important, but you can’t waste an offensive position on the floor, with a non-scorer. Looks like Kellie is recruiting scorers (defense can be taught). GLV!

Agree completely.....

The downfall of this program has been a lack of basketball scorers....We have had lots of athletes, but too many times they weren't basketball players too....Big difference between someone that can stop and pop from 15 feet, and a player that will just charge into a set defense for another turnover....We've had lots of them...

The game has changed, thanks to offensive minded teams, like our friends to the north...We often had better athletes, but not to often, better scorers...

Looking forward to watching Darby pop from behind the line, and the little Aussie firing when she is open, instead of passing the ball so much...

 

[Coach Jumper]

Agree completely.....

The downfall of this program has been a lack of basketball scorers....We have had lots of athletes, but too many times they weren't basketball players too....Big difference between someone that can stop and pop from 15 feet, and a player that will just charge into a set defense for another turnover....We've had lots of them...

The game has changed, thanks to offensive minded teams, like our friends to the north...We often had better athletes, but not to often, better scorers...

Looking forward to watching Darby pop from behind the line, and the little Aussie firing when she is open, instead of passing the ball so much...

As am I GT

 

[glv98]

The downfall of this program has been a lack of basketball scorers....We have had lots of athletes, but too many times they weren't basketball players too....Big difference between someone that can stop and pop from 15 feet, and a player that will just charge into a set defense for another turnover....We've had lots of them...

I don't think bball scorers are usually recruited. The bball scorer has to be developed from the talented raw athlete. Like bringing along a hot house flower. The abject failure at doing that has been the downfall of this program IMO. Other coaches at other schools seem to be more adapt at honing and refining their athletes, especially on offense. Also, it's hard to be a consistent bball scorer in a clueless offense that's often playing hot potato with the ball as the shot clock winds down.

 

[River67]

Agree completely.....

The downfall of this program has been a lack of basketball scorers....We have had lots of athletes, but too many times they weren't basketball players too....Big difference between someone that can stop and pop from 15 feet, and a player that will just charge into a set defense for another turnover....We've had lots of them...

The game has changed, thanks to offensive minded teams, like our friends to the north...We often had better athletes, but not to often, better scorers...

Looking forward to watching Darby pop from behind the line, and the little Aussie firing when she is open, instead of passing the ball so much...

 

[Coach Jumper]

The bball scorer has to be developed from the talented raw athlete. Like bringing along a hot house flower. The abject failure at doing that has been the downfall of this program IMO. Other coaches at other schools seem to be more adapt at honing and refining their athletes, especially on offense. Also, it's hard to be a consistent bball scorer in a clueless offense that's often playing hot potato with the ball as the shot clock winds down.

Coach K has had an entire summer to see where we need to bow-up
I expect to see some bowing from the gitgo

 

[glv98]

Coach K has had an entire summer to see where we need to bow-up
I expect to see some bowing from the gitgo

I agree, we should be able to see some real improvement in bball skills by next season. And a more coherent offensive scheme. Another thing Holly really struggled with was getting the players to implement and stick to a game plan. We should see at least some degree of advancement there also. Those are building blocks that will bring us back.

 

[lvocd]

The downfall of this program has been a lack of basketball scorers....We have had lots of athletes, but too many times they weren't basketball players too....

Agreed.

A little story about me. Back in the day I was one of those über-athletes who could instantly mimic any kind of athletic movement I saw -- anything -- and having that gift resulted in me being a multi-sport all-star who never came across a sport I couldn't excel in playing.

However, ALSO back in the day I never took the time to actually think about anything -- I mean anything, lol -- and so my basketball I.Q. lay somewhere between that of a sixth-grader and of a sixth-grader with A.D.D.-level focus. I could run fast, jump high, was strong as an ox, could stop any team's best scorer with tenacious defense and jerk a rebound out of the hands of anyone. I was even told by one coach that I had one of the prettiest jump shots he'd ever seen.

But I was a HORRIBLE scorer. My family's ultra-athletic gene pool gifted me with a physical surety that made me as good or better at playing any game than most kids I played with or against -- even without really trying hard. Sadly, in my case, I was a mentally lazy athlete and I NEVER reached my full potential as a result. I was always anxious to get on with doing whatever it was I thought was the next fun/adventurous thing to do in my life, and so I had zero patience for shooting shots over and over and over and over again until I made the majority of them. My heart and mind raced only with the strong desire to play the real games -- but NOT TO PRACTICE to shoot the ball well in those games.

This is a looooooong and boring story to say that, over the years, I have suspected that there have been more than a handful of Lady Vols who may have been maybe not quite as bad as me (I think that would be impossible), but probably had just a little too much of that confidence in their movements for their own good. Because they were sooooo athletic, they likely wasted a lot of time that could have spent getting into the gym to put up shots. I suspect a few of those people feel like I do now -- wishing they'd grown up mentally sooner.

Just saying that I understand that mindset. It was only many years after college that my brain finally caught up with my body. But I sure have thought I was spotting a bit of that mental laziness now and then in a few of Tennessee's best athletes -- men and women. It's so very frustrating because I KNOW they could have gone from really good to GREAT if only they'd worked more on the mental aspect of sports instead of relying solely on their bodies.

I cannot tell you all how much I wish I could sit down with each class of Lady Vols that comes in to tell them of my experience, always hoping to God that someone takes it to heart and makes up for my mistakes. But then I know that, at their age, most are not ready to hear the message that people like me bring, no matter how sincere and well-meaning it is. But I swear... If I could live my life over again.... *sigh*

*climbing off my soap box*

 

[krichunaka]

Agreed.

A little story about me. Back in the day I was one of those über-athletes who could instantly mimic any kind of athletic movement I saw -- anything -- and having that gift resulted in me being a multi-sport all-star who never came across a sport I couldn't excel in playing.

However, ALSO back in the day I never took the time to actually think about anything -- I mean anything, lol -- and so my basketball I.Q. lay somewhere between that of a sixth-grader and of a sixth-grader with A.D.D.-level focus. I could run fast, jump high, was strong as an ox, could stop any team's best scorer with tenacious defense and jerk a rebound out of the hands of anyone. I was even told by one coach that I had one of the prettiest jump shots he'd ever seen.

But I was a HORRIBLE scorer. My family's ultra-athletic gene pool gifted me with a physical surety that made me as good or better at playing any game than most kids I played with or against -- even without really trying hard. Sadly, in my case, I was a mentally lazy athlete and I NEVER reached my full potential as a result. I was always anxious to get on with doing whatever it was I thought was the next fun/adventurous thing to do in my life, and so I had zero patience for shooting shots over and over and over and over again until I made the majority of them. My heart and mind raced only with the strong desire to play the real games -- but NOT TO PRACTICE to shoot the ball well in those games.

This is a looooooong and boring story to say that, over the years, I have suspected that there have been more than a handful of Lady Vols who may have been maybe not quite as bad as me (I think that would be impossible), but probably had just a little too much of that confidence in their movements for their own good. Because they were sooooo athletic, they likely wasted a lot of time that could have spent getting into the gym to put up shots. I suspect a few of those people feel like I do now -- wishing they'd grown up mentally sooner.

Just saying that I understand that mindset. It was only many years after college that my brain finally caught up with my body. But I sure have thought I was spotting a bit of that mental laziness now and then in a few of Tennessee's best athletes -- men and women. It's so very frustrating because I KNOW they could have gone from really good to GREAT if only they'd worked more on the mental aspect of sports instead of relying solely on their bodies.

I cannot tell you all how much I wish I could sit down with each class of Lady Vols that comes in to tell them of my experience, always hoping to God that someone takes it to heart and makes up for my mistakes. But then I know that, at their age, most are not ready to hear the message that people like me bring, no matter how sincere and well-meaning it is. But I swear... If I could live my life over again.... *sigh*

*climbing off my soap box*

That ain’t soapbox, nor was it long and boring ...that’s Hemingway Classic. Great post, lvocd!
I think my story is similar. Sports were downplayed, or even discouraged, for the more important things in life; the Eric Lydell approach if you will. We practiced during the season, then ran a few plays and so forth in what was called “Spring Practice.” Summers were spent cutting wood, clearing the fields of rocks; working in the garden and “tobacco patch.“ My (running back) skills training consisted of dodging trees while racing through the woods. It worked out OK for a 5’9” 140-pounder; I made the team at Camp Lejeune and survived a year or so at ETSU (at 157 lbs) before my spine literally gave out.
But, to your major point, in college we did things over and over.
AND OVER!
Because there were several very talented players on the team who were aspiring for the NFL. Dennis Law comes to mind. He returned punts and played receiver for the Bengals for a few seasons, late-70s - early-80s. Our quarterback, Mark Hutsell, was the starter in what was then the Blue-Gray Game. A few others signed as free agents. So a very talented group of competitors.
The repetition you speak of is critical. Larry Bird once said that he’d shoot 700 jump shots a day. But then he feared that “Magic might have shot 800.” So, back to the court he’d go. He simply wasn’t going to be out worked.
I think what I’m trying to say is, above all, repetition (and hard work in general) creates CONFIDENCE!

 

[GameTime]

Agreed.

A little story about me. Back in the day I was one of those über-athletes who could instantly mimic any kind of athletic movement I saw -- anything -- and having that gift resulted in me being a multi-sport all-star who never came across a sport I couldn't excel in playing.

However, ALSO back in the day I never took the time to actually think about anything -- I mean anything, lol -- and so my basketball I.Q. lay somewhere between that of a sixth-grader and of a sixth-grader with A.D.D.-level focus. I could run fast, jump high, was strong as an ox, could stop any team's best scorer with tenacious defense and jerk a rebound out of the hands of anyone. I was even told by one coach that I had one of the prettiest jump shots he'd ever seen.

But I was a HORRIBLE scorer. My family's ultra-athletic gene pool gifted me with a physical surety that made me as good or better at playing any game than most kids I played with or against -- even without really trying hard. Sadly, in my case, I was a mentally lazy athlete and I NEVER reached my full potential as a result. I was always anxious to get on with doing whatever it was I thought was the next fun/adventurous thing to do in my life, and so I had zero patience for shooting shots over and over and over and over again until I made the majority of them. My heart and mind raced only with the strong desire to play the real games -- but NOT TO PRACTICE to shoot the ball well in those games.

This is a looooooong and boring story to say that, over the years, I have suspected that there have been more than a handful of Lady Vols who may have been maybe not quite as bad as me (I think that would be impossible), but probably had just a little too much of that confidence in their movements for their own good. Because they were sooooo athletic, they likely wasted a lot of time that could have spent getting into the gym to put up shots. I suspect a few of those people feel like I do now -- wishing they'd grown up mentally sooner.

Just saying that I understand that mindset. It was only many years after college that my brain finally caught up with my body. But I sure have thought I was spotting a bit of that mental laziness now and then in a few of Tennessee's best athletes -- men and women. It's so very frustrating because I KNOW they could have gone from really good to GREAT if only they'd worked more on the mental aspect of sports instead of relying solely on their bodies.

I cannot tell you all how much I wish I could sit down with each class of Lady Vols that comes in to tell them of my experience, always hoping to God that someone takes it to heart and makes up for my mistakes. But then I know that, at their age, most are not ready to hear the message that people like me bring, no matter how sincere and well-meaning it is. But I swear... If I could live my life over again.... *sigh*

*climbing off my soap box*

Thanks for that post......It came straight from your heart...

 

[Voltopia]

I cannot tell you all how much I wish I could sit down with each class of Lady Vols that comes in to tell them of my experience, always hoping to God that someone takes it to heart and makes up for my mistakes. But then I know that, at their age, most are not ready to hear the message that people like me bring, no matter how sincere and well-meaning it is.

You're absolutely right about them not being ready. The only thing that makes them ready is experience. Well, experience and hunger. Maybe it's life experience, or game experience, but the hunger has to be there. There are physically and athletically gifted players in every sport who, for reasons, don't maximize returns on their potential. If you spend any amount of time around AAU leagues, you'll find players who are practicing on their own, watching tape, perfecting shots, and elevating themselves above their peers. 13 year olds who are better than most of the 14 year olds. 14 year olds who can play with 16 year olds.. And all I ever think when I see that is "if you can keep it up, you've got success ahead of you." But that's hard. Staying invested for 3 or 4 or 5 years when you're young is supremely hard. And for every talented athlete who learns too soon to be satisfied, there's another player who uses their time in college to get better and get hungrier. A lot of amazing athletes leave high school thinking 75% is good enough. And the ones who work for that last 25% usually end up whippin' them. I think the best coaches excel at finding ways to connect those players with understanding of that last 25% -- and connecting them with their internal hunger and an awareness that "good enough" will get beaten by greatness, so if you want to win, you have to reach for greatness.

And yes, of course, I think of Summitt when I say that, because I think she dug a lot of results out of players who otherwise would have been good but not great. Which is why so many came to play for her. And why she made so many Final Fours in years where you'd think Tennessee wasn't so hot. And so on. But even Summitt couldn't motivate all of them, even when they came to Tennessee possessing every athletic advantage imaginable.

Anyway, I thought your comment was very personal and insightful. For anyone who feels that way, I can only hope for internal peace. Coming to terms with what could have been that is part of any athlete's trajectory, well, save a handful of names who can say they really did reach the top. And actually it's more than just athletes, it's a big chunk of life. And learning to overcome that chunk to do more is just as big, if not bigger, a step for everyone to take. You cannot reach for the past, but you can reach for the future. Wait, now I'm on a soapbox now. Fine. Sign a point guard. Cut down on turnovers. Make the team introduction more exciting. Stop making Transformers movies. I'm getting off this thing now.

 

[Chitownvol1129]

I believe they will get their guard for this fall. If not, I believe they can develop help for Jordan between the three freshmen newcomers. I remember a Lady Vol that stepped up and became one of Pats best PG's, Dena Head. She was not a point guard originally.

More atheletic game now, no way she can turn anyone but Jordan into a ready to go. Rennie deserves here attention too.

 

[Coach Jumper]

More atheletic game now, no way she can turn anyone but Jordan into a ready to go. Rennie deserves here attention too.

Rennie began to make strides late in the season. She is one I expect to take a major step as well

 

[tnvolfan65]

We definitely need a PG out of the portal. I think barring the NCAA’s decision on one-time transfers, we could see a host of new names before it’s time to lace up the sneakers again. Give it some time.

Glad to see us casting a bigger net for PGs in 2021 as well.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

well ...i will go against the grain.... and anyone is welcome to criticize what they will..... our downfall last several years has little to do with the fact that we did not have scorers..... people who say this believe that recruiting top 10 McDonald's All Americans included the curious fact that they were not scorers in high school???? .... Mercedes not a scorer? Diamond not a scorer? And if these highly touted players were not scorers, how did we lose so many games to teams playing women who were lunch bucket scorers in high school at best? our problems stemmed more from having pathetic coaching and ...related to that.... failure to develop an adequate offensive scheme to rival , match, or exceed commensurate top programs in WCBB today.....

 

[Coach Jumper]

well ...i will go against the grain.... and anyone is welcome to criticize what they will..... our downfall last several years has little to do with the fact that we did not have scorers..... people who say this believe that recruiting top 10 McDonald's All Americans included the curious fact that they were not scorers in high school???? .... Mercedes not a scorer? Diamond not a scorer? And if these highly touted players were not scorers, how did we lose so many games to teams playing women who were lunch bucket scorers in high school at best? our problems stemmed more from having pathetic coaching and ...related to that.... failure to develop an adequate offensive scheme to rival , match, or exceed commensurate top programs in WCBB today.....

it wasn't the ingredients in the past, it was the cook

 

[VolBall09]

Holly also seemed to like taking chances on kids that were a little rough around the edges. Something Pat obviously did very well. Pat had the personality to inspire and change those young women for the better though.

Under Holly they got in trouble and got released from the program. Kinda astonishing when you consider how many Holly recruits left the program for personal or legal reasons. No telling how good we could have been if there was a culture of fewer off court distractions and more on court focus.

Even some on our current roster have had issues but Harper seems to have nipped that in the bud.

Plus all the Holly transfers.

I already feel a difference in the kind of PERSON Kellie is looking for. Not just the kind of player she’s after.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Holly also seemed to like taking chances on kids that were a little rough around the edges. Something Pat obviously did very well. Pat had the personality to inspire and change those young women for the better though.

Under Holly they got in trouble and got released from the program. Kinda astonishing when you consider how many Holly recruits left the program for personal or legal reasons. No telling how good we could have been if there was a culture of fewer off court distractions and more on court focus.

Even some on our current roster have had issues but Harper seems to have nipped that in the bud.

Plus all the Holly transfers.

I already feel a difference in the kind of PERSON Kellie is looking for. Not just the kind of player she’s after.

Holly recruited players for Pat Summitt, even after Pat had to give up the reins.
A mistake that I don't think Coach K will make.

 

[VolBall09]

Holly recruited players for Pat Summitt, even after Pat had to give up the reins.
A mistake that I don't think Coach K will make.

Well put. I see it the exact same way.

I can already see a difference as well. The fact that Jazz transferred because they had “different visions for the PG role” tells us something too. Those decisions are that of the coaches, not the players. I believe Holly was being completely ignored most of the time. Harper has obviously made it clear that to some degree it’s her way or the highway.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Well put. I see it the exact same way.

I can already see a difference as well. The fact that Jazz transferred because they had “different visions for the PG role” tells us something too. Those decisions are that of the coaches, not the players. I believe Holly was being completely ignored most of the time. Harper has obviously made it clear that to some degree it’s her way or the highway.

The worst mistake ANY coach can make is to be in awe of a player. Impressed yes, appreciative yes, complimentary yes,, but in awe, nope...Once a coach goes there the athlete has all the power.

I believe Kellie was the right hire and will believe that until it is undeniable that she isn't. I see this progression:
1st year-adjust to the role
2nd year-establish your parameters and expectations
3rd year-Things should begin to grow innately while you fine tune
4th year-peak

 

[LasVegasBill23]

it wasn't the ingredients in the past, it was the cook

On THAT CJ I can totally agree