Is signing a PG a must?

#1

Rickster

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#1
If you are a guard at a power university, you should be able to dribble, pass and shoot. Why can't a backup be developed from the existing team? PG's are not endowed with ability that cannot be learned and developed. I think this years class has built depth even if they don't sign a "PG." Would I like to see Kellie sign another guard, shoot yeah, I just don't think it is critical.
 
#3

Bballnut1952

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#3
If you are a guard at a power university, you should be able to dribble, pass and shoot. Why can't a backup be developed from the existing team? PG's are not endowed with ability that cannot be learned and developed. I think this years class has built depth even if they don't sign a "PG." Would I like to see Kellie sign another guard, shoot yeah, I just don't think it is critical.
Who would you have Coach Harper develop into a point guard in time for this coming season?
 
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#4

brieeallen

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#4
If you are a guard at a power university, you should be able to dribble, pass and shoot. Why can't a backup be developed from the existing team? PG's are not endowed with ability that cannot be learned and developed. I think this years class has built depth even if they don't sign a "PG." Would I like to see Kellie sign another guard, shoot yeah, I just don't think it is critical.
Yes to be honest that’s the most important position on the court they are an extension of the coach on the floor . They should be able to read and call out offense and defense without being told because they are reading what the defense / offense gives. They are the ones who should know teammates personal. That’s the heart of your team.
 
#6

Rickster

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#6
I believe they will get their guard for this fall. If not, I believe they can develop help for Jordan between the three freshmen newcomers. I remember a Lady Vol that stepped up and became one of Pats best PG's, Dena Head. She was not a point guard originally.
 
#7

glv98

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#7
If you are a guard at a power university, you should be able to dribble, pass and shoot. Why can't a backup be developed from the existing team? PG's are not endowed with ability that cannot be learned and developed. I think this years class has built depth even if they don't sign a "PG." Would I like to see Kellie sign another guard, shoot yeah, I just don't think it is critical.
Just generally you want a quality backup who doesn't cause a big dropoff at every position Fouls, illness, injury etc. happen. I'm pretty sure 99.9% of coaches would consider backup pg especially important. Not really a play "by committee" type position.

Its an especially important role in the current situation bc JH as pg is a gamble. Could have an incredible payoff, and obviously KJH thinks it will, or could need a credible alternative at times. Not sure its fair to turn JH into the next Candace just yet. She's still young. Having some capable help would remove some of the pressure of such high expectations.

BTW, noticably absent from all this discussion has been Rennie. Very possibly she will be the back up pg.
 
#8

FrozenLVFan

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#8
Rennie sees the court well, is a good passer, and takes pretty good care of the ball. However, her ball handling skills need some improvement to be a P-5 level PG. If she's been working hard on that in the off-season, she could become a reasonably good PG. She also knows the plays and Kellie's system, which gives her an advantage over the freshmen.
 
#10

VolBall09

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#10
Rennie sees the court well, is a good passer, and takes pretty good care of the ball. However, her ball handling skills need some improvement to be a P-5 level PG. If she's been working hard on that in the off-season, she could become a reasonably good PG. She also knows the plays and Kellie's system, which gives her an advantage over the freshmen.
I agree within reason. At the very least she can become a real threat off the bench. If her ball handling, strength and defensive quickness improve she will see many more minutes. She has potential to be very impactful. Continue to shoot 45% from three, and improve elsewhere she will be an invaluable asset.
 
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#11

Amb3096

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#11
If you are a guard at a power university, you should be able to dribble, pass and shoot. Why can't a backup be developed from the existing team? PG's are not endowed with ability that cannot be learned and developed. I think this years class has built depth even if they don't sign a "PG." Would I like to see Kellie sign another guard, shoot yeah, I just don't think it is critical.
There's such a difference in skill set between a PG and SG that they can't easily substitute for one another. A score first PG like Zia Cooke is able to shift to SG more easily than a scoring SG who primarily moves without the ball and tries to get open looks to score. The difference in ball handling skills is also usually pretty significant. Shanna Zolman was an elite SG, but had to move to PG when Wiley-Gatewood transferred and Hornbuckle broke her hand, and it was a big time struggle. Opposing guards feasted on her shaky ballhandling and would press and force turnovers. Not an indictment of Zolman, but bringing the ball up against pressure and setting up the offense was never her forte. I think the freshman will have a hard enough time adjusting to college at their natural positions, let alone being forced to learn PG and be a reliable SEC-caliber backup.

Kellie has a solid starting 5 and some good players on the bench that she can develop, but she needs a proven PG to back up Horston. Doesn't need to be an all-SEC player, but someone who is familiar with the position and has the skills to reliably contribute 10-15 minutes a game without hurting the team.
 
#12

VolBall09

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#12
I do believe we still need an experienced back-up PG. A grad transfer would be nice. We can’t create experience, but we can recruit it.

I really see the dynamic and shape changing as Kellie adds more players. Pretty clear she is looking for more versatile, physical players. For as athletic as many of the players Holly recruited were, they were not terribly versatile. Or the versatility seemed forced. Also felt many were soft and never made the jump to next level SEC physicality.
 
#13
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#13
I do believe we still need an experienced back-up PG. A grad transfer would be nice. We can’t create experience, but we can recruit it.

I really see the dynamic and shape changing as Kellie adds more players. Pretty clear she is looking for more versatile, physical players. For as athletic as many of the players Holly recruited were, they were not terribly versatile. Or the versatility seemed forced. Also felt many were soft and never made the jump to next level SEC physicality.
We can carry 13 and have 12,,,,that spot should be filled with a grad transfer who can step in and run a PG spot with Jordan!
 
#19

madtownvol

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#19
There's such a difference in skill set between a PG and SG that they can't easily substitute for one another. A score first PG like Zia Cooke is able to shift to SG more easily than a scoring SG who primarily moves without the ball and tries to get open looks to score. The difference in ball handling skills is also usually pretty significant. Shanna Zolman was an elite SG, but had to move to PG when Wiley-Gatewood transferred and Hornbuckle broke her hand, and it was a big time struggle. Opposing guards feasted on her shaky ballhandling and would press and force turnovers. Not an indictment of Zolman, but bringing the ball up against pressure and setting up the offense was never her forte. I think the freshman will have a hard enough time adjusting to college at their natural positions, let alone being forced to learn PG and be a reliable SEC-caliber backup.

Kellie has a solid starting 5 and some good players on the bench that she can develop, but she needs a proven PG to back up Horston. Doesn't need to be an all-SEC player, but someone who is familiar with the position and has the skills to reliably contribute 10-15 minutes a game without hurting the team.
Good points:

Let's break this down a bit further

1.Being able to handle pressure defense and break a press is key issue. It is possible that Kellie could find a set of players who could function as press breakers and they might not necessarily be the main PG. And some of this adaptation would also involving better coaching on how to handle the press more effectively. But potentially, along with Jordan, Rennie, Rae, Davis, and perhaps even Marta might be able to function in that capacity. But, this potential vulnerability is a concern. This conversation brings back memories of Shannon Bobbitt just driving teams insane with her ability to cut through a press, like a hot knife through butter.

2. Over the years, a fairly constant stream of criticism has been the team lacked a "real PG" and then players in that role took the blame for the team's suboptimal half court offense. If the LVs had better half court schemes, however, it becomes easier to be effective at PG. So we have a little bit of a chicken and egg dilemma. And the key to half-court sets is ball movement and player movement off the ball. So, having the ball in the PGs hands to long can be counter productive.

So, I think the more crucial issue may be solving the long standing puzzle of the LVs half court offense struggles. When a half court offense is really working, it is not always clear who is PG. This is a best world example but the Golden State Warriors in their prime, technically played Steph Curry at PG but more often than not Draymond Green made the key passes as a point forward, sometimes it was Durant, sometimes it was Klay.

My point is that game and players are evolving to such an extent that these rigid positional classification may be obsolete or a sign of running an obsolete offense.
 
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#20

lvocd

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#20
In my opinion, the main ingredients for being able to play point guard successfully are developed early in a child's life and can't be taught in an offseason at the college level. No, I'm not talking about dribbling skills or shooting or passing skills. But the mentality of a future strong point guard -- high confidence and courage -- is usually discovered very early on as kids play. By the time a kid reaches college she should have already proved she was able to handle the extra pressure that comes with the most important position in basketball. Having more responsibility than anyone else besides the coach isn't for everyone, and if a player doesn't thrive on handling that pressure, I'm not sure that can be taught.

But I could be wrong! lol
 
#21

Amb3096

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#21
Good points:

Let's break this down a bit further

1.Being able to handle pressure defense and break a press is key issue. It is possible that Kellie could find a set of players who could function as press breakers and they not necessarily be the main PG. And some of this would also be coaching the team on how to handle the press more effectively. But potentially, along with Jordan, Rennie, Rae, Davis, and perhaps even Marta might be able to function in that capacity. But, the potential vulnerability is a concern. This conversation brings back memories of Shannon Bobbitt just driving teams insane with her ability to cut through a press, like a hot knife through butter.

2. Over the years, a fairly constant stream of criticism has been the team lacked a "real PG" and then players in that role took the blame for the teams suboptimal half court offense. If the LVs had better half court schemes, it becomes easier to be effective at PG, so we have a little bit of a chicken and egg. And the key to half-court sets is ball movement and player movement off the ball. So, having the ball in the PGs hands to long is actually counter productive.

So, I think the more crucial issue may be solving the long standing puzzle of the LVs half court offense struggles. When a half court offense is really working, it is not always clear who is PG. This is a best world example but in the Golden State Warriors in their prime, technically played Steph Curry at PG but more often than not Draymond Green made the key passes as a point forward, sometimes it was Durant, sometimes it was Klay.

My point is that game and players are evolving to such an extent that these rigid positional classification may be obsolete or a sign of running an obsolete offense.
I don't disagree with you, but the key is to recruit players that have versatile skill sets to allow for this position-less style of play. I don't know about Salary, but Rennie doesn't have it, and I don't see Darby as a strong enough ball handler to be able to switch to that role. Evina could, same with Jordan H., Jaime and Diamond. However, I don't see that skillset on the current roster, so I think at least this year, Kellie will need to recruit it.

This becomes less of an issue once Tennessee fixes their offense, but it will be an issue for next year.
 
#22
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#22
In my opinion, the main ingredients for being able to play point guard successfully are developed early in a child's life and can't be taught in an offseason at the college level. No, I'm not talking about dribbling skills or shooting or passing skills. But the mentality of a future strong point guard -- high confidence and courage -- is usually discovered very early on as kids play. By the time a kid reaches college she should have already proved she was able to handle the extra pressure that comes with the most important position in basketball. Having more responsibility than anyone else besides the coach isn't for everyone, and if a player doesn't thrive on handling that pressure, I'm not sure that can be taught.

But I could be wrong! lol
I agree and that is why I am high on our PG...She (Jordan) shot up 6 inches in HS...Before that she was a 5'8" PG from the time she started playing BB...That said, she was a PG from the gitgo,, as you suggest we should have.

Her turnovers were for the most part passes that were not caught bc they weren't expected, That will change with familiarization between her and her teammates

Much will be determined in this upcoming season, and I for one am very confident in the progress JH will make. In fact, I wish the season started yesterday.
 
#24

Volfaninfl2

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#24
Good points:

Let's break this down a bit further

1.Being able to handle pressure defense and break a press is key issue. It is possible that Kellie could find a set of players who could function as press breakers and they might not necessarily be the main PG. And some of this adaptation would also involving better coaching on how to handle the press more effectively. But potentially, along with Jordan, Rennie, Rae, Davis, and perhaps even Marta might be able to function in that capacity. But, this potential vulnerability is a concern. This conversation brings back memories of Shannon Bobbitt just driving teams insane with her ability to cut through a press, like a hot knife through butter.

2. Over the years, a fairly constant stream of criticism has been the team lacked a "real PG" and then players in that role took the blame for the team's suboptimal half court offense. If the LVs had better half court schemes, however, it becomes easier to be effective at PG. So we have a little bit of a chicken and egg dilemma. And the key to half-court sets is ball movement and player movement off the ball. So, having the ball in the PGs hands to long can be counter productive.

So, I think the more crucial issue may be solving the long standing puzzle of the LVs half court offense struggles. When a half court offense is really working, it is not always clear who is PG. This is a best world example but in the Golden State Warriors in their prime, technically played Steph Curry at PG but more often than not Draymond Green made the key passes as a point forward, sometimes it was Durant, sometimes it was Klay.

My point is that game and players are evolving to such an extent that these rigid positional classification may be obsolete or a sign of running an obsolete offense.
It appears that Kellie is recruiting versatile/moving players. I believe our offense will look much better next season, not only because of the improved players, including point guard, but because the starting five, and several others, will each be a scoring threat. That puts much more pressure on the opposing team’s defense to have to defend all our players on offense, which will in turn make our half court offense/schemes work/look improved.
 

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