I respect Fulmer a little more after each game we lose

Phil is/was a selfish human, who put HIS interests first and used his school, and the people that supported him, to get what HE wanted, from stabbing Johnny in the back to gain head coaching position to later his coup against John Currie.
Exactly, some of these ppl pining for Fulmer are probably some of the same ones that wanted Kiffin to come back!
 
I go after Fulmer stating how much he loves this university, and then never missing a chance to bleed it dry. And yes, it is a bad look to have given Pruitt an extension with the idiotic, out in the open fiasco of the Pruitt situation. I mean, the moron didn’t try to hide it. Fulmer might have been able to spot it had he not been trying to coach the O-Line. Fulmer helped Johnny out the door, and then muscled Currie out of the way. Not saying Currie was a good AD, but Phil certainly has a history of not being the most loyal of individuals. In fact, Fulmer has done more damage to the program since 1998 than anyone else.

Fulmer did not bleed the University dry...... As of 2018, the University totaled 24 million in buyouts....... Fulmer's portion of that was 6 million from his buyout of contract extension he got in 2007......

So for you to focus on a mere 25% of the buyouts instead of focusing on the 15.4 million that went to the offices of Dooley, Butch, and Currie, you are incapable of having an objective discussion......

And the fact you are trying to defend Currie as a way to stick it to Fulmer just show you are are agenda driven.
 
I have foiiowed UT football since Doug Dickey was the coach. I remember a UT football program with a strong sense of tradition. There was no gimmicky style of play (they just lined up and went straight at them) and no uniforms with colors other than orange and white. I remember when orange jerseys were worn at away games. There were some ups and downs (the “Archie Who” Ole Miss game loss is still the most devastating loss of my lifetime). One thing I don’t remember is the fan base wetting themselves with joy over a 7-5 season.
I was pretty young at the time, but seem to remember folks being pretty excited in going to the (cough) Blue Bonnet Bowl in 1979. Just my opinion, but think Pruitt coached a "no gimmick" style of offense...we don't have the horses to line up and beat even mid-major SEC teams. Imagine, with all our losses, if we tried to run a traditional scheme this year w/ so many defections. We have a coach who is on the front end of a cutting edge scheme. Saban changed his model to one which the Bear surely wouldn't approve of...Spurrier brought a new one too. I grew up in the 70's/80's when magic seasons were few (though not as deep as this drought), so, I appreciate the exponential effort to get back to a higher threshold. It's a different age, but Vol fan passion hasn't slipped...and that's the biggest tradition of all!
 
There was no guarantee that we would be in the SECCG with Fulmer. That is only an assumption.
It's called looking at trends. When you look at his record, he was in the SECCG every 3 years. No recruiting class except the 1993 one ever went without playing for the conference championship at least once under Fulmer. And given the recruiting classes he had coming in (Tajh Boyd, Bryce Petty), it's a legit argument that he would have.
 
Fulmer's teams were loaded with talent, this isn't an appropriate comparison. That's the burning question. Will this staff be able to consistently recruit at a level that will have them competing for Championships.
I would counter that if these teams were so talented,and I believe they were, why only 1 single championship? Lack of a great coach?
 
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Coupled by losing respect for all the Hamilton cronies in the UT administration at the time.
 
Phil is/was a selfish human, who put HIS interests first and used his school, and the people that supported him, to get what HE wanted, from stabbing Johnny in the back to gain head coaching position to later his coup against John Currie.
People don't think about how Currie would have hired Mike Leach but somehow Fulmer took over and hired Pruitt. Look at how well Mike Leach is doing in the west. Heck Fulmer could have hired Sam Pitman smh.
 
In his last 4 years, Fulmer was 29-21 with 2 losing seasons. It was time for him to go. I’m not defending the other hiring decisions the university made by saying it was time for Fulmer to go.
Maybe the biggest "what if" is if he let Clawson run his offense and stay around. Great offensive mind.
 
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We make a big deal about winning games nowadays he use to win blindfolded. I’m not sure we will ever get back within being 75% of the win production he produced . Recruiting is the key. Must needs. Vol for life , hate losing especially to Georgia.

Snitches wind up in ditches ! He put us here.
 
Seems to me some of same people here blaming Milton for stepping out of bounds (rightfully so) and choking during a critical game winning chance are probably the ones who can’t bring themselves to apply that same standard to good ‘ol Phil. SMH.

Fulmer’s choke job vs Saban in the 2001 SECCG with the best TN team of my lifetime ended any hopes he had of being seen as a top-tier coach and ended our team’s run at the top of CFB.

I knew the minute that game was over that we were done. The only question was how long Phil would attempt to hold on to break the General’s record for his OWN self-aggrandizement and how far into the ground he would run our program before he was finally persuaded to let go of his death grip.

That’s the singular moment when everything started to unravel. Watching Phil take over as AD made me sick to my stomach. To me that was rock bottom and now that he’s gone our healing process has finally begun under White and Heupel.
 
The argument about Phil is so done. I mean, like Dunn.

But no one invited me to this party so I'll see myself out. Just remember the next time someone says "This is why other fans laugh at us" and remember this thread.

On a side note, I think you recommended The Drew Holcombe Band. Thanks for that recommendation, I have enjoyed their music.
 
He couldn’t beat Florida and fans were getting fed up. That’s the way I remember it.

Wow, these threads are insane. Did so many of you guys really think UT had a shot yesterday? Some of you are coming off as desperate and pathetic. A real shot at 7-5 and a bowl is phenomenal considering the circumstances and this roster. Some of y’all need to come back down to earth. Taking this L a little too hard.
we beat 6 really bad teams, beat one decent team barely and lost two games to teams we have more talent than. played Bama decent and got handled by UGA and Florida. CJH made it look more.flashey with his offense but I have doubts he can continue this especially if he doesn't start recruiting better.
 
we beat 6 really bad teams, beat one decent team barely and lost two games to teams we have more talent than. played Bama decent and got handled by UGA and Florida. CJH made it look more.flashey with his offense but I have doubts he can continue this especially if he doesn't start recruiting better.
You're talking about Heupel, right?

No. Not "really bad" teams. UT beat USCe and UK who both beat UF. UT is now in the upper tier of "middling". That's better than they've been in several years without accounting for what most people considered a really bad situation for Heupel to step into. Outside of a few of us on this board... most didn't expect UT to be as competitive as they've been. Many if not most thought UT would win less than 6 games. Some said 4 with only one SEC win.

This is by no means a "done deal". You are correct that UT lost two games to teams with less overall talent... though both are lead by serious Heisman candidates who made a huge difference in those games. Not "tooting my horn" but a few of us said before the season that UT had more talent even after the departures than 9 opponents. But I also predicted 6-8 wins because UT has not depth problems but quality of depth problems- and we've seen it.

There were some missed opportunities and are some remaining concerns around roster building. However three things have me positive.

One- What he did with the situation he inherited is very good considering the roster losses. He got a lot of production out of guys who had not previously produced much of anything.

Two- He has changed the culture amazingly fast. Players believe in him and are talking about it in VERY positive terms.

Three- And... buzz. I resisted when people were talking UT down earlier in the year but since they were able to pound that narrative into the minds of fans and recruits... they set the bar low enough that 7 wins has the talking heads praising UT and Heupel. I don't think he "overachieved" as much as the narrative will be if they take care of business and finish with 7 wins. If they add a bowl win then against a good opponent then it will ramp up even more.


IMO, his success now and in the future depends on what he does to build the roster before next fall. He needs to find quality HS players without regard to stars. But more importantly he needs to turn the table on the portal. He needs to bring in some great players who elevate both depth and quality of talent.
 
Fulmer is a reason why we’re in this mess right now.

Pruitt should have never been hired to begin with.

To make things worse, Fulmer wanted to keep Pruitt for another year.
Nope. Administrations fault UT is where it is. Fulmer’s main fault was being too loyal to his staff.

Now. As an AD, he sucked.
 
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You're talking about Heupel, right?

No. Not "really bad" teams. UT beat USCe and UK who both beat UF. UT is now in the upper tier of "middling". That's better than they've been in several years without accounting for what most people considered a really bad situation for Heupel to step into. Outside of a few of us on this board... most didn't expect UT to be as competitive as they've been. Many if not most thought UT would win less than 6 games. Some said 4 with only one SEC win.

This is by no means a "done deal". You are correct that UT lost two games to teams with less overall talent... though both are lead by serious Heisman candidates who made a huge difference in those games. Not "tooting my horn" but a few of us said before the season that UT had more talent even after the departures than 9 opponents. But I also predicted 6-8 wins because UT has not depth problems but quality of depth problems- and we've seen it.

There were some missed opportunities and are some remaining concerns around roster building. However three things have me positive.

One- What he did with the situation he inherited is very good considering the roster losses. He got a lot of production out of guys who had not previously produced much of anything.

Two- He has changed the culture amazingly fast. Players believe in him and are talking about it in VERY positive terms.

Three- And... buzz. I resisted when people were talking UT down earlier in the year but since they were able to pound that narrative into the minds of fans and recruits... they set the bar low enough that 7 wins has the talking heads praising UT and Heupel. I don't think he "overachieved" as much as the narrative will be if they take care of business and finish with 7 wins. If they add a bowl win then against a good opponent then it will ramp up even more.


IMO, his success now and in the future depends on what he does to build the roster before next fall. He needs to find quality HS players without regard to stars. But more importantly he needs to turn the table on the portal. He needs to bring in some great players who elevate both depth and quality of talent.

I predicted 9 wins and thatss because we have more talent than 9 teams and a considerable amount more than many of them. Im not down on Heupel yet and will give him time but he in no way overachieved.
 
Here are all the ways 2002-2008 (Fulmer's latter years) were better than 2013-2017 (Jones tenure):
  • Fulmer's latter record was 57-32. Butch's was 34-29. That's a 64% win rate for Phillip, versus 54% for Butch.
  • Fulmer won the SEC East twice in that time period. Butch never won the division.
  • Fulmer had three (3) 10-win seasons in that window. Butch never got to double digits.
  • Fulmer's worst season was 5-7. Butch achieved a team history worst, at 4-8.
  • Ditto in SEC play: Fulmer's worst ever was 3-5. Butch took us to the cellar at 0-8.

There is simply no comparison between the two. Fulmer's worst years were still significantly better than the Butch Jones era, or the Dooley era, or the Pruitt era.

Folks like to hate on Phillip Fulmer, but he was one helluva great coach. Second best in our team's history. You don't get to a lifetime 75% win rate being a scrub.

But, haters gonna hate.

Go Vols!
I wish I could double like something. Well said.

The biggest mistake I think Fulmer made was coming back as the " AD " to " save " the program. I wish he would not have done that. I loved him being a part of the program and being around I just wish he would have stayed in his lane and let the admins, admin.
 
You're talking about Heupel, right?

No. Not "really bad" teams. UT beat USCe and UK who both beat UF. UT is now in the upper tier of "middling". That's better than they've been in several years without accounting for what most people considered a really bad situation for Heupel to step into. Outside of a few of us on this board... most didn't expect UT to be as competitive as they've been. Many if not most thought UT would win less than 6 games. Some said 4 with only one SEC win.

This is by no means a "done deal". You are correct that UT lost two games to teams with less overall talent... though both are lead by serious Heisman candidates who made a huge difference in those games. Not "tooting my horn" but a few of us said before the season that UT had more talent even after the departures than 9 opponents. But I also predicted 6-8 wins because UT has not depth problems but quality of depth problems- and we've seen it.

There were some missed opportunities and are some remaining concerns around roster building. However three things have me positive.

One- What he did with the situation he inherited is very good considering the roster losses. He got a lot of production out of guys who had not previously produced much of anything.

Two- He has changed the culture amazingly fast. Players believe in him and are talking about it in VERY positive terms.

Three- And... buzz. I resisted when people were talking UT down earlier in the year but since they were able to pound that narrative into the minds of fans and recruits... they set the bar low enough that 7 wins has the talking heads praising UT and Heupel. I don't think he "overachieved" as much as the narrative will be if they take care of business and finish with 7 wins. If they add a bowl win then against a good opponent then it will ramp up even more.


IMO, his success now and in the future depends on what he does to build the roster before next fall. He needs to find quality HS players without regard to stars. But more importantly he needs to turn the table on the portal. He needs to bring in some great players who elevate both depth and quality of talent.
Also I dont put any stock into USC beating Florida. they have completely checked out on Dan.
 
Fulmer is not the devil. Yeah he made a bank off UT. But he also loves UT beyond the money. His fans want to deny it but the game changed both on and off the field but he refused to change. That led to a perceptible and consistent decline from the NC to his firing with Cut giving him a temporary reprieve on the field. Recruiting and especially linemen declined. The game left him behind and he refused to see it famously declaring, "We've won a lot of games around here doing what we're doing. We ain't changing now". He drove the program into a DEEP ditch. No one to this point has been able to pull it out.

He had his time. His time passed. IMHO, his hiring of Pruitt was pure vanity. He found a guy who believed that Fulmer's way of playing and coaching could still work. He wanted in effect to prove he was wrongly fired. Pruitt proved exactly the opposite.

We need to appreciate what Fulmer accomplished but be realistic about his flaws and the ways he hurt the program.
 
Also I dont put any stock into USC beating Florida. they have completely checked out on Dan.
So? USCe still trounced them... and UT still dominated USCe. And then... Mizzou beat USCe. More than likely 3 of the SEC teams UT beats will be bowl eligible. USA still has a shot if McCall doesn't return and play well a week from Saturday.

My point is NOT that we declare Heupel a success... only that he did enough to warrant a more positive "wait and see" than you and a few others are expressing. You appear to be writing him off. Too early for that.

I would have loved to have seen what the team could have done early in the season when most were healthy had Hooker won the job in August. I think Saturday gave a little indication of what Milton might have been doing in practice that impressed the coaches. Most who saw the closed parts of practice have said that Hooker didn't have a very good camp. I think Pitt would have been a win... and UF a very big possibility if Hooker were settled in. But that's not the way it played out. Not to dwell on it... but I think OM came down to some tilted officiating not just the spot but the whole game.
 
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I predicted 9 wins and thatss because we have more talent than 9 teams and a considerable amount more than many of them. Im not down on Heupel yet and will give him time but he in no way overachieved.

I don't think "overachievement" was on the table without extraordinarily low injuries. UT got hit on the OL and LB... the two places they could afford it least. The RB group looked good coming in but the top 5 have all missed games due to injury. The top two have missed half or more of the season. Not making any excuses... I just don't think "overachievement" was attainable with those injuries and the timing. Evans when healthy is a game changer. Can he stay healthy?

While I think his choice was reasonable based on what he saw and the reports we've been given, choosing Milton as #1 at the start of the season cost UT at least one win. Again, new coach, new system, new players, etc... the only thing he could go off was practice performance. Unfortunately, Milton was much better in practice than on gameday and Hooker as it turns out is better on gameday than in practice. I'll be more critical of that kind of mistake next fall should it happen again.
 
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“Backed into a division title”……

2004 we went 7-1 in league play including a 6-0 record in the East.

2007 we went 6-2 in league play including a 5-1 record in the East.
2004 might be his best coaching job.

No detail in your post. We got blown out at Florida, 59-20, and blown out by 6-6 Alabama, 41-17, in 2007. We also got blown out by California. So if you're going to contend we didn't back into it in 2007 by posting our record as something of a great accomplishment, then you need to at least acknowledge who we lost to and by how much. One reason why we finished just inside the top 15 after beating Wisconsin in the Outback Bowl. Our 2015 team didn't win the East but was at least as good as the 2007 team.
 

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