I respect Fulmer a little more after each game we lose

#351
#351
Wow. You all are still talking about Fulmer. He must be living rent free in your heads the same way Spurrier lived rent free in his.
 
#352
#352
sjt18 said:
Fulmer is not the devil. Yeah he made a bank off UT. But he also loves UT beyond the money. His fans want to deny it but the game changed both on and off the field but he refused to change. That led to a perceptible and consistent decline from the NC to his firing with Cut giving him a temporary reprieve on the field. Recruiting and especially linemen declined. The game left him behind and he refused to see it famously declaring, "We've won a lot of games around here doing what we're doing. We ain't changing now". He drove the program into a DEEP ditch. No one to this point has been able to pull it out.

He had his time. His time passed. IMHO, his hiring of Pruitt was pure vanity. He found a guy who believed that Fulmer's way of playing and coaching could still work. He wanted in effect to prove he was wrongly fired. Pruitt proved exactly the opposite.

We need to appreciate what Fulmer accomplished but be realistic about his flaws and the ways he hurt the program.
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The second part makes doing the first part very difficult.
 
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#353
#353
b_gann said:
Maybe the biggest "what if" is if he let Clawson run his offense and stay around. Great offensive mind.
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Clawsen’s offense couldn’t be implemented in one season. That was a problem for a coach who after back to back 10 win seasons found himself on the hot seat. He had a physically talented QB who wasn’t the brightest bulb in the chandelier who couldn’t grasp the terminology and Clawsen couldn’t adjust to his QBs strengths.

Clawsen excels at schools like Richmond and Wake Forest where admission standards are high and you don’t have to simplify things. That’s not to knock our guys or the university, but we ain’t Vanderbilt and don’t have to recruit players based on their IQ or Wunderlich score.
 
#354
#354
volbound1700 said:
A big part of the reason we appeared in 2007 was that we had Miss State and Arkansas as our West opponents while Florida had LSU and Auburn.

Florida kicked the **** out of us and was truly a better team. Georgia was a better team as well but we upset them. Tennessee lucked out by getting to dodge Auburn and LSU that year. This is why people say we backed into it. We played only four good\ranked teams (Alabama, Cal, Florida, and Georgia) and we went 1-4 in those games.
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UGA wasn’t a better team than us in 2007. We put up 56 on them the previous year and it wasn’t an upset we did it back to back. Clausen never figured out UGA, but Fulmer won 3 of his last 5 against Richt and Kiffin blew them out of the water in 2009. From 2004-09 we were 4-2 against Richt, then Dooley sucked. Butch lost his first two and then won 2 in a row. We were competing with UGA just fine and playing them tight in games we lost. From 2017 until today is when the bottom really fell out.
 
#355
#355
sjt18 said:
Fulmer is not the devil. Yeah he made a bank off UT. But he also loves UT beyond the money. His fans want to deny it but the game changed both on and off the field but he refused to change. That led to a perceptible and consistent decline from the NC to his firing with Cut giving him a temporary reprieve on the field. Recruiting and especially linemen declined. The game left him behind and he refused to see it famously declaring, "We've won a lot of games around here doing what we're doing. We ain't changing now". He drove the program into a DEEP ditch. No one to this point has been able to pull it out.

He had his time. His time passed. IMHO, his hiring of Pruitt was pure vanity. He found a guy who believed that Fulmer's way of playing and coaching could still work. He wanted in effect to prove he was wrongly fired. Pruitt proved exactly the opposite.

We need to appreciate what Fulmer accomplished but be realistic about his flaws and the ways he hurt the program.
Click to expand...

He twice dropped one wheel into the ditch, he corrected it the first time and followed that year with 9 and 10 win seasons, The Clawson experiment led to the second. But the Kiffin, Dooley, and Jones tenures had us not in a ditch but in a ravine and our AD after publicly shaming our school with his poorly handled search and in the end was attempting to hire a Pirate to sail out of a dry desert in that ravine. i would have hated that, quietly, but deeply.

CPF for sure made the worst hire of the three PERCEIVED available candidates due to his one week of vetting available failing him. Gotta believe he was a bit deceived by those contacted at FSU, GA, and AL. But that is still on him.
 
#356
#356
05_never_again said:
Once Richt, Saban, and Urban were all in the SEC simultaneously, they ate his lunch.

Phil would have still been OK had only one of them come in (Phil still recruited well when it was just him and Spurrier), but once multiple SEC schools really improved their coaching/recruiting it was the start of the slide. He really benefited from having guys like Ray Goff, Mike DuBose, Brad Scott, Curley Hallman, and Gerry DiNardo in the conference. The SEC was not a primo conference as far as coaches in those days, to be sure.
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As I mentioned beforehand, Fulmer won 3 of his last 5 against Richt.

Richt went 4-0 during the Clausen era (it wasn’t Casey’s fault though. Richt beat AJ Suggs in 2000, won a a fluke hobnail boot in 2001, beat 2002 team with freshman James Banks at QB- Casey only played bad enough to lose in his senior year when he played awful).

With the exception of 2003, those game’s were fluke. We beat UGA in 2004, 2006, and 2007. We also beat Richt the year after Fulmer was gone so it wasn’t like Richt was Spurrier at FLA.
 
#357
#357
perico said:
As I mentioned beforehand, Fulmer won 3 of his last 5 against Richt.

Richt went 4-0 during the Clausen era (it wasn’t Casey’s fault though. Richt beat AJ Suggs in 2000, won a a fluke hobnail boot in 2001, beat 2002 team with freshman James Banks at QB- Casey only played bad enough to lose in his senior year when he played awful).

With the exception of 2003, those game’s were fluke. We beat UGA in 2004, 2006, and 2007. We also beat Richt the year after Fulmer was gone so it wasn’t like Richt was Spurrier at FLA.
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It wasn't just Richt. Fulmer couldn't handle multiple good coaches being in the SEC simultaneously. It was a gradual, accumulated effect. The depth of coaching in the SEC started to improve in the early 2000s, and Phil just could not keep up.

Richt was a much better recruiter and coach than Ray Goff or Jim Donnan. Saban was a much better coach and recruiter than Gerry DiNardo, Curley Hallman, or Mike Shula. Urban was a better coach and recruiter than Ron Zook and even Spurrier (and Phil had trouble beating UF regardless anyway).

Spurrier even went 2-2 against Fulmer at South Carolina, and the 2 losses were very close games. There towards the end, South Carolina wasn't a whipping boy like they had been for so long.
 
#359
#359
perico said:
As I mentioned beforehand, Fulmer won 3 of his last 5 against Richt.

Richt went 4-0 during the Clausen era (it wasn’t Casey’s fault though. Richt beat AJ Suggs in 2000, won a a fluke hobnail boot in 2001, beat 2002 team with freshman James Banks at QB- Casey only played bad enough to lose in his senior year when he played awful).

With the exception of 2003, those game’s were fluke. We beat UGA in 2004, 2006, and 2007. We also beat Richt the year after Fulmer was gone so it wasn’t like Richt was Spurrier at FLA.
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Fulmer was 1-5 vs Richt without Cut.
 
#361
#361
Volizona said:
Wow. You all are still talking about Fulmer. He must be living rent free in your heads the same way Spurrier lived rent free in his.
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At least Fulmer beat him every once in a while. You guys ripping on Fulmer as a coach are ridiculous. At least we were respectable and considered a force every year instead of the afterthought and non-factor we have become ever since he left as coach.
 
#362
#362
djohnnyg said:
At least Fulmer beat him every once in a while. You guys ripping on Fulmer as a coach are ridiculous. At least we were respectable and considered a force every year instead of the afterthought and non-factor we have become ever since he left as coach.
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And?

Keep slurping him as if he's the only reason
 
#363
#363
I've read this thread title several times but never clicked on it. Just the title alone gets me riled up. I can't imagine any scenario where there's growing respect for him.

He has been revealed for who he is. His respect level has experienced diminishing returns the last 20 years.
 
#364
#364
utfantilidie said:
We make a big deal about winning games nowadays he use to win blindfolded. I’m not sure we will ever get back within being 75% of the win production he produced . Recruiting is the key. Must needs. Vol for life , hate losing especially to Georgia.
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Wtf kind of garbage is this?
 
#366
#366
After every game, win or lose, I am very thankful he is gone for good. He could recruit but really was not a very good coach at all. There were times we had a roster full of future NFL players yet underachieved. It's very telling that no other Div I team wanted him for a coach when he was fired. That speaks volumes of his ability.
 
#367
#367
perico said:
Clawsen’s offense couldn’t be implemented in one season. That was a problem for a coach who after back to back 10 win seasons found himself on the hot seat. He had a physically talented QB who wasn’t the brightest bulb in the chandelier who couldn’t grasp the terminology and Clawsen couldn’t adjust to his QBs strengths.

Clawsen excels at schools like Richmond and Wake Forest where admission standards are high and you don’t have to simplify things. That’s not to knock our guys or the university, but we ain’t Vanderbilt and don’t have to recruit players based on their IQ or Wunderlich score.
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I think it's been strongly hinted at that Fulmer limited what he could and couldn't do though. I remember we flipped lineman, which was odd.
 
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