Game Thread: (20/22) Lady Vols vs. Ole Miss

#501
#501
madtownvol said:
AAAARRGH! We have such a coach. Sometimes you have to give an opponent credit. Ole Miss played a hell of a game. They brought incredible defensive pressure and their new set of go to players hit clutch shots. The LVs made mistakes in the first but Ole Miss forced a lot of those errors. Per the ole cliche, Ole Miss played a lot a much higher level than their conference record would suggest.

I see a lot of positives in the LVs battling back from a double digit deficit.
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I see a lot of negatives in needing to battle back from a weak team like Ole Piss.
 
#503
#503
I was not a believer that they were that much better than last year. I was wrong. I don't think that level of play is their new average but they played lights out for long stretches. Congrats to them. Hope we're focusing on Florida. If I were coaching the Gators, I would press like crazy and see what happened.
 
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#505
#505
Rickster said:
I was not a believer that they were that much better than last year. I was wrong. I don't think that level of play is their new average but they played lights out for long stretches. Congrats to them. Hope we're focusing on Florida. If I were coaching the Gators, I would press like crazy and see what happened.
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I agree press like crazy Old Miss did and it worked.
 
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#507
#507
volmanNC said:
I see a lot of negatives in needing to battle back from a weak team like Ole Piss.
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So, this Ole Miss team has gotten a big upgrade. They had a top ranked recruiting class and their transfer post Austin is very talented and skilled. Like the announcers, I am very surprised their conference record is not better. Regardless of past games, they played really well last night.
 
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#509
#509
Coach Jumper said:
you're welcome creek, I am fair when I do them and don't pull any punches,,,this one tells me that good defense was more of an influence than bad play
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Lots of good hard work on the t.o. chart, but I guess I don't understand the point. There are good turnovers and bad turnovers? Any turnover gives the other team a scoring opportunity we don't get therefore all are equally harmful, regardless their origin.

How is a charge a forced turnover? Forced by the defender standing still in the way? Is there a metric for forced/unforced or is it subjective personal opinion?

Upgrading mistakes seems snowflakey to me, which is pretty ironic on a board convinced that toughness and punishment is the ultimate answer to the t.o. plague. So Pat would have said "We're running til ya puke for every t.o., but step out if your defender was really, really good.." I think there's some excuse-making behind all this and I don't think our suddenly promising team needs the bar lowered for them.

Pretty simple, a dang t.o. is a dang t.o. and we make way too many of them.
 
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#510
#510
Head slapping! What a neat topic. I'm pretty sure this will be settled quickly between the slapers and the slapees without our help, But I have for sure seen a few times on camera, including last night, when the slapee most assuredly did not enjoy the ritual celebration. Face be like, "Damn girl, that really hurt!" I'm assuming the obvious displeasure gets communicated to the over-enthusiastic slapper. That's not usually the kind of thing one holds inside.
 
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#511
#511
glv98 said:
Lots of good hard work on the t.o. chart, but I guess I don't understand the point. There are good turnovers and bad turnovers? Any turnover gives the other team a scoring opportunity we don't get therefore all are equally harmful, regardless their origin.

How is a charge a forced turnover? Forced by the defender standing still in the way? Is there a metric for forced/unforced or is it subjective personal opinion?

Upgrading mistakes seems snowflakey to me, which is pretty ironic on a board convinced that toughness and punishment is the ultimate answer to the t.o. plague. So Pat would have said "We're running til ya puke for every t.o., but step out if your defender was really, really good.." I think there's some excuse-making behind all this and I don't think our suddenly promising team needs the bar lowered for them.

Pretty simple, a dang t.o. is a dang t.o. and we make way too many of them.
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If a turnover is forced by the good play of the opposition, it is not at the fault of the team on offense,,,,maybe you have heard the phrase "good offense, better defense"...sometimes it is not the fault of the offense, it is the good play and anticipation of the defense,,,I don't consider them unforced.

Unforced is a turnover that is not forced by the defense or a questionable call by a ref. Of which, if you re-read the game thread there were several.

If the charge is either a questionable call or an unavoidable perfect move by a defender, I do not call it an unforced turnover, as it was not the result of a bad play by the one charged with the turnover. just as a interception in football is not always the fault of the QB,,,sometimes it is just a perfect anticipation or read by a safety.

I am tough on coaching because I coach, I am also tough on turnovers, as seen by the prior week's analysis
In this week's analysis many of the turnovers were questionable calls and the result of defense....But if you look at the prior weeks turnovers in the next post you see that 17 of 24 I called unforced.
 
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#512
#512
glv98 said:
Head slapping! What a neat topic. I'm pretty sure this will be settled quickly between the slapers and the slapees without our help, But I have for sure seen a few times on camera, including last night, when the slapee most assuredly did not enjoy the ritual celebration. Face be like, "Damn girl, that really hurt!" I'm assuming the obvious displeasure gets communicated to the over-enthusiastic slapper. That's not usually the kind of thing one holds inside.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I would not mind the team going back to the old school butt slap. Fewer concussions that way....
 
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#513
#513
I think I've read every post on this thread. What A Game! What a talented group of young Lady Vols! And, what a wonderful forum where we can (within reason) agree, disagree, or agree to disagree. Because we are, excepting for a few trolls and straddlers, all on the same team.

So, what's the big deal about a little head tap?

(Once Upon A Time) I was working in our little country store, hanging something on the pegboard IIRC, when a young gentleman and close family friend walked up from behind and gave me a little slap/tap on the back of my head, eerily similar to what we've seen from our beloved Lady Vol(s). Wasn't that hard really, but next thing I recall, I'm "coming to" and he was steadying my fall, as everything had suddenly gone dark and I was headed floorward. I played some football, boxed and fought a little, so I've been knocked around a good bit. I've seen stars, and headed to the wrong huddle ...the usual stuff. But, with this relatively mild tap on the head, the poor fella had in essence, knocked me out. Which gave both of us quite a scare. I suppose the important thing to consider (in my for instance) is I was not expecting the little greeting.

The entity of sports continually reminds us that, the human body is very tough: ACLs, broken bones, hairline fractures, pulls, tears, concussions, and so on. And in almost all cases, she (or he) bounces right back, better/wiser for the wear. I don't think anyone will be hurt by these little love taps. I surely hope not.

And, I don't think our player(s) would intentionally hurt a flea. I don't want to take sides here or offend anyone. But, I cringe every time I witness those celebratory jabs, so I wish they'd return to the "old school butt slap" (thanks, Madtown).

***I might have missed it, but has lvocd posted recently? I really enjoy his/her enthusiastic comments.
 
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#514
#514
Coach Jumper said:
f a turnover is forced by the good play of the opposition, it is not at the fault of the team on offense,,,,maybe you have heard the phrase "good offense, better defense"...sometimes it is not the fault of the offense, it is the good play and anticipation of the defense,,,I don't consider them unforced.
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So do you do a chart for shooting? BC several of our players could instantly improve their shooting % if we throw out missed shot attempts that were adequately defended.

This just seems like a rabbit hole of excuse that our team might have needed previously, but hopefully does not anymore. Should be capable now of higher standards. Not ok to get the ball slapped away just bc the defender has quick hands. We have to be better than that.
 
#515
#515
krichunaka said:
I think I've read every post on this thread. What A Game! What a talented group of young Lady Vols! And, what a wonderful forum where we can (within reason) agree, disagree, or agree to disagree. Because we are, excepting for a few trolls and straddlers, all on the same team.

So, what's the big deal about a little head tap?

(Once Upon A Time) I was working in our little country store, hanging something on the pegboard IIRC, when a young gentleman and close family friend walked up from behind and gave me a little slap/tap on the back of my head, eerily similar to what we've seen from our beloved Lady Vol(s). Wasn't that hard really, but next thing I recall, I'm "coming to" and he was steadying my fall, as everything had suddenly gone dark and I was headed floorward. I played some football, boxed and fought a little, so I've been knocked around a good bit. I've seen stars, and headed to the wrong huddle ...the usual stuff. But, with this relatively mild tap on the head, the poor fella had in essence, knocked me out. Which gave both of us quite a scare. I suppose the important thing to consider (in my for instance) is I was not expecting the little greeting.

The entity of sports continually reminds us that, the human body is very tough: ACLs, broken bones, hairline fractures, pulls, tears, concussions, and so on. And in almost all cases, she (or he) bounces right back, better/wiser for the wear. I don't think anyone will be hurt by these little love taps. I surely hope not.

And, I don't think our player(s) would intentionally hurt a flea. I don't want to take sides here or offend anyone. But, I cringe every time I witness those celebratory jabs, so I wish they'd return to the "old school butt slap" (thanks, Madtown).

***I might have missed it, but has lvocd posted recently? I really enjoy his/her enthusiastic comments.
Click to expand...
Hadn't seen any posts lately..
 
#517
#517
krichunaka said:
So, what's the big deal about a little head tap?
Click to expand...

If the recipient's not expecting it and it hurts, then it's an unnecessary distraction.

If the recipient hates being hit on the head repeatedly, then it builds up resentment against the inflicter and causes issues with team morale. That little thought creeps in "Maybe if she spent more energy focusing on the game plan instead of hitting people we wouldn't turn the ball over so much." You can tell from their facial expressions that it's already being resented.
 
#518
#518
@Coach Jumper I like your chart but I'm going to be a little tougher on them than you were. IMO there are 4 categories of turn over:

1. Boneheaded - dribbling into corners, hanging a cross court pass, blatant charging/offensive fouls, shot clock violations
2. Routine - dribble off foot, bang bang charge foul, ill advised passes that are not worth the risk, getting stripped on your way to the basket
3. Mitigated - right when you throw a pass teammate zigs instead of zags, risk/reward was worth it in attempting a tough pass that would result in an easy layup, etc
4. Uncontrollable - the floor is wet and you slip, "hail mary" type plays (shot clock or game clock running out), failing to save a ball going oob under your own basket, dribbling out the shot clock on purpose

Category 1 should never happen and should be eliminated from a smart, disciplined team. #2 should be reduced as much as possible, more than 2 per quarter is bad. #3 you never want turnovers but you can live with these especially the risk/reward variety because you don't want a team that is overly cautious. There is some risk inherent in trying to get past a defense and score. #4 These are rare and you don't even worry about these turnovers.
 
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#519
#519
37620VOL said:
@Coach Jumper I like your chart but I'm going to be a little tougher on them than you were. IMO there are 4 categories of turn over:

1. Boneheaded - dribbling into corners, hanging a cross court pass, blatant charging/offensive fouls, shot clock violations
2. Routine - dribble off foot, bang bang charge foul, ill advised passes that are not worth the risk, getting stripped on your way to the basket
3. Mitigated - right when you throw a pass teammate zigs instead of zags, risk/reward was worth it in attempting a tough pass that would result in an easy layup, etc
4. Uncontrollable - the floor is wet and you slip, "hail mary" type plays (shot clock or game clock running out), failing to save a ball going oob under your own basket, dribbling out the shot clock on purpose

Category 1 should never happen and should be eliminated from a smart, disciplined team. #2 should be reduced as much as possible, more than 2 per quarter is bad. #3 you never want turnovers but you can live with these especially the risk/reward variety because you don't want a team that is overly cautious. There is some risk inherent in trying to get past a defense and score. #4 These are rare and you don't even worry about these turnovers.
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agree there is more room for categories,,,but in the end I still like to call them forced, unforced and questionable,,,,with descriptions,,,but I do acknowledge and appreciate your input
 
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