FInal Rant THE MCB PLAY

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I'd like to see the pylon view up the sidelines which should show the official starting his "he's down" wave side-by-side with the pylon cam toward the goal line.

I've not seen the up the sidelines pylon cam footage (that I recall, and I've not obsessed over the play) but having them matched for just exactly how early he called it "forward progress stopped" might be useful for officials to discuss for the future.

It's over. I'd hope it's a play officials look at, discuss, and the game gets better...... too late for us but hopefully not for the future officials.
Everything I've ever been taught, told, and seen, is that it is the moment that the official declares his progress stopped. My main contention is that between the time his brain told him he was stopped to the time he was running in, he had time to see the ball reach across the plane. He had time to fix it before relaying his ruling to the white hat. They could have had the conversation that he might have been down, stopped, etc. They could then have ruled it a TD on the field and let review confirm or deny it if he were down by contact. However, he chose to die on the hill of forward progress when it was so obviously not. For that, I will never forgive him. He is dead to me and we need to avoid ACC refs for the rest of time. The 2 games officiated by ACC refs (Pitt/Purdue) accounted for 1/3 of our season total in penalty yards.
 
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Everything I've ever been taught, told, and seen, is that it is the moment that the official declares his progress stopped. My main contention is that between the time his brain told him he was stopped to the time he was running in, he had time to see the ball reach across the plane. He had time to fix it before relaying his ruling to the white hat. They could have had the conversation that he might have been down, stopped, etc. They could then have ruled it a TD on the field and let review confirm or deny it if he were down by contact. However, he chose to die on the hill of forward progress when it was so obviously not. For that, I will never forgive him. He is dead to me and we need to avoid ACC refs for the rest of time. The 2 games officiated by ACC refs (Pitt/Purdue) accounted for 1/3 of our season total in penalty yards.
I am on my phone and cannot get to the 21 NCAA football Casebook but google it open it an go down to game situations 18 or 19 and after reading them see if you feel you have been misled or not.

I will post it later but long story short a guy RULED a runner down at the 11 but replay noted he made ir to the 9 and was never down and replay overturned the official’s spot and in this case ruled a first down instead of a TD.

Different down and distance but it clearly dismisses the concept an official ruling progress as not reviewable. Whistle was not mentioned.
 

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Again with the whistle....the whistle isn't the only way to call a play dead. The whistle blew after the ball crossed the plane, nobody can deny that. Progress was ruled stopped, and that is the end of it. Was it correct, heck NO! There is nothing anybody can do at that point. I hope they clarify the rules and language going forward.

Tennessee was robbed of a Music City Bowl OT TD, and college football fans were irate

"Though the call feels wrong, there is technically nothing the officials could do as you cannot review anything after forward progress is called. On the play, the whistle only blows after Wright extends the ball over the goal line, but in this instance, the ruling was what stopped the play, not the whistle itself.

Terry McAulay

As much as I can't stand McAulay, he is right based off the ruling.

Ok, for all you folks saying that once an official rules progress stopped it is not reviewable regardless of the whistle explain the following ruling from the

21 NCAA Football Casebook

PART III: 2020 PLAY SITUATIONS

Running Plays

19. Forward progress with respect to a first down
Third and 10 on the B-20. A22 runs to the B-9, where he is pushed back to the Team B 15-yard line and is never downed. Officials rule forward progress was stopped at the Team B 11-yard line. RULING: Reviewable play, regarding whether A22 had made the line to gain. Reverse to A 1-Goal on B-9, reset clock if within two minutes of the first half or five minutes of the second half and start on Referee’s signal (Rule 12-3-3-e).


Down and distance is different, but an official ruled him stopped at the 11 and replay after confirming that the runner was not down by contact moved the ball to the 9, the furthest point attained.

If it being a goal to goal situation and it's relation to line to gain or first down is an issue I supply the following form LIne To Gain section

Line to Gain ARTICLE 2. a. The line to gain for a series shall be established 10 yards in advance of the most forward point of the ball; but if this line is in the opponent’s end zone, the goal line becomes the line to gain.


also from the casebook

Forward Progress

Forward progress is a term indicating the end of advancement by the ball carrier or airborne pass receiver and applies to the position of the ball when it becomes dead by rule (Rule 2-9-2).

• The replay official must know the ruling on the field and where officials ruled progress. Replay can create or negate a safety, touchdown or first down.

o When replay reviews a spot in relation to the line to gain, the replay official should determine if the line to gain was reached. If the replay official is not able to make a determination, then direct the on-field officials to place the ball at the adjusted spot and measure.

o Forward progress of a sliding player is the point at which the slide starts (backside begins to drop).

o Replay can only move the ball closer to the line to gain, not farther away


What say you now?

I have long held that the big issue is with replay. A whistle would have ended the play. Obviously, the rules do not support a ruling is ironclad and not reviewable. Replay showed he was never down, that he got to goal line before the whistle and the guy ran in and RULED his progress down at the one. Actually BY RULE the play was already dead when the ball broke the plane.
 
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Ok, for all you folks saying that once an official rules progress stopped it is not reviewable regardless of the whistle explain the following ruling from the

21 NCAA Football Casebook

PART III: 2020 PLAY SITUATIONS

Running Plays

19. Forward progress with respect to a first down
Third and 10 on the B-20. A22 runs to the B-9, where he is pushed back to the Team B 15-yard line and is never downed. Officials rule forward progress was stopped at the Team B 11-yard line. RULING: Reviewable play, regarding whether A22 had made the line to gain. Reverse to A 1-Goal on B-9, reset clock if within two minutes of the first half or five minutes of the second half and start on Referee’s signal (Rule 12-3-3-e).


Down and distance is different, but an official ruled him stopped at the 11 and replay after confirming that the runner was not down by contact moved the ball to the 9, the furthest point attained.

If it being a goal to goal situation and it's relation to line to gain or first down is an issue I supply the following form LIne To Gain section

Line to Gain ARTICLE 2. a. The line to gain for a series shall be established 10 yards in advance of the most forward point of the ball; but if this line is in the opponent’s end zone, the goal line becomes the line to gain.


also from the casebook

Forward Progress

Forward progress is a term indicating the end of advancement by the ball carrier or airborne pass receiver and applies to the position of the ball when it becomes dead by rule (Rule 2-9-2).

• The replay official must know the ruling on the field and where officials ruled progress. Replay can create or negate a safety, touchdown or first down.

o When replay reviews a spot in relation to the line to gain, the replay official should determine if the line to gain was reached. If the replay official is not able to make a determination, then direct the on-field officials to place the ball at the adjusted spot and measure.

o Forward progress of a sliding player is the point at which the slide starts (backside begins to drop).

o Replay can only move the ball closer to the line to gain, not farther away


What say you now?

I have long held that the big issue is with replay. A whistle would have ended the play. Obviously, the rules do not support a ruling is ironclad and not reviewable. Replay showed he was never down, that he got to goal line before the whistle and the guy ran in and RULED his progress down at the one. Actually BY RULE the play was already dead when the ball broke the plane.
What I say is you have a reading comprehension problem. In the Casebook situation, the player made it to the 9 and was pushed back with his progress being spotted at the 11. The play wasn't declared dead at the time he got to the 9, so replay can go back and award that spot.

In our play, progress was declared stopped BEFORE the ball crossed the goallline. You CANNOT ADD to progress after the ball has been declared dead. Like the example from the clip from the GA game. If our guy breaks that tackle and goes for a touchdown, it wouldn't have mattered because progress was deemed stopped at the 38.
 

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What I say is you have a reading comprehension problem. In the Casebook situation, the player made it to the 9 and was pushed back with his progress being spotted at the 11. The play wasn't declared dead at the time he got to the 9, so replay can go back and award that spot.

In our play, progress was declared stopped BEFORE the ball crossed the goallline. You CANNOT ADD to progress after the ball has been declared dead. Like the example from the clip from the GA game. If our guy breaks that tackle and goes for a touchdown, it wouldn't have mattered because progress was deemed stopped at the 38.

No, the ball had already broken the plane as you acknowledged in a previous response before he declared it dead with his whistle and he RULED the ball dead at the one instead of the 11 in the game situation provided and his RULING clearly came after the ball was in fact declared dead at the 15. Replay was tasked with finding the forward most position of the ball up to the when the ball was declared dead and just like the runner reached the 9 in the example our guy reached the goal line. A ruling by an official is an applied judgement and those are reviewable. He had the power to make that judgement with a whistle REAL TIME but did not get it done. What replay ruled was his judgment was not the furthest legal advance of the ball before it was declared dead as required in the referenced rule 2-9-2. Running in and planting your foot is a ruling but does not declare the ball dead as stipulated in the rule. That is not a suggestion it is a requirement.
 
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No, the ball had already broken the plane as you acknowledged in a previous response before he declared it dead with his whistle and he RULED the ball dead at the one instead of the 11 in the game situation provided and his RULING clearly came after the ball was in fact declared dead at the 15. Replay was tasked with finding the forward most position of the ball up to the when the ball was declared dead and just like the runner reached the 9 in the example our guy reached the goal line. A ruling by an official is an applied judgement and those are reviewable. He had the power to make that judgement with a whistle REAL TIME but did not get it done. What replay ruled was his judgment was not the furthest legal advance of the ball before it was declared dead as required in the referenced rule 2-9-2. Running in and planting your foot is a ruling but does not declare the ball dead as stipulated in the rule. That is not a suggestion it is a requirement.
I acknowledged no such thing. In our play, progress was determined to be stopped BEFORE the ball broke the plane. That is not debatable. Should it have been...absolutely not, and I think we all agree with that. IF they had driven him backwards and he didn't see the reach and then marked him down at the 1 after the fact, replay could fix that. Replay CANNOT fix anything after the point in time at which progress has been deemed stopped.
 

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I acknowledged no such thing. In our play, progress was determined to be stopped BEFORE the ball broke the plane. That is not debatable. Should it have been...absolutely not, and I think we all agree with that. IF they had driven him backwards and he didn't see the reach and then marked him down at the 1 after the fact, replay could fix that. Replay CANNOT fix anything after the point in time at which progress has been deemed stopped.
What did you say in your 5:27 post about the ball broke the plane?

The ref in the situation ruled him down at the 11 how is that different than our guy at the 1? Neither were down by contact. Both RULED progress before the verifiable legal furthest advance. They got the ruling info from the ref and overturned the call in the example. Why? Because the ball was live till declared dead not just a ruling spot.
 

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Ok, for all you folks saying that once an official rules progress stopped it is not reviewable regardless of the whistle explain the following ruling from the

21 NCAA Football Casebook

PART III: 2020 PLAY SITUATIONS

Running Plays

19. Forward progress with respect to a first down
Third and 10 on the B-20. A22 runs to the B-9, where he is pushed back to the Team B 15-yard line and is never downed. Officials rule forward progress was stopped at the Team B 11-yard line. RULING: Reviewable play, regarding whether A22 had made the line to gain. Reverse to A 1-Goal on B-9, reset clock if within two minutes of the first half or five minutes of the second half and start on Referee’s signal (Rule 12-3-3-e).


Down and distance is different, but an official ruled him stopped at the 11 and replay after confirming that the runner was not down by contact moved the ball to the 9, the furthest point attained.

If it being a goal to goal situation and it's relation to line to gain or first down is an issue I supply the following form LIne To Gain section

Line to Gain ARTICLE 2. a. The line to gain for a series shall be established 10 yards in advance of the most forward point of the ball; but if this line is in the opponent’s end zone, the goal line becomes the line to gain.


also from the casebook

Forward Progress

Forward progress is a term indicating the end of advancement by the ball carrier or airborne pass receiver and applies to the position of the ball when it becomes dead by rule (Rule 2-9-2).

• The replay official must know the ruling on the field and where officials ruled progress. Replay can create or negate a safety, touchdown or first down.

o When replay reviews a spot in relation to the line to gain, the replay official should determine if the line to gain was reached. If the replay official is not able to make a determination, then direct the on-field officials to place the ball at the adjusted spot and measure.

o Forward progress of a sliding player is the point at which the slide starts (backside begins to drop).

o Replay can only move the ball closer to the line to gain, not farther away


What say you now?

I have long held that the big issue is with replay. A whistle would have ended the play. Obviously, the rules do not support a ruling is ironclad and not reviewable. Replay showed he was never down, that he got to goal line before the whistle and the guy ran in and RULED his progress down at the one. Actually BY RULE the play was already dead when the ball broke the plane.
This has one significant assumptive error.....that the ACC refs know or read the rules.....they follow the rules of new math.....close enough is good enough....
 
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What did you say in your 5:27 post about the ball broke the plane?

The ref in the situation ruled him down at the 11 how is that different than our guy at the 1? Neither were down by contact. Both RULED progress before the verifiable legal furthest advance. They got the ruling info from the ref and overturned the call in the example. Why? Because the ball was live till declared dead not just a ruling spot.
I don't know...you tell me. All I have said is that progress was called (way way way too soon) before the reach over the line. The play is dead right there and replay cannot add progress past that point.

I have explained MULTIPLE times how this is different than the example you showed. In that case the play continued after he had reached the 9. In our case the play was over at the 1 BEFORE he reached the ball across. Replay CANNOT add progress after the point in time that progress was ruled to have been stopped. In your case, the ballcarrier reaches the 9 and driven back to the 15 in which time the official marks progress at the 11. Replay CAN go back and say he made the 9 before the play was declared over. If he would have ruled him stopped at the 11 BEFORE reaching the 9, they couldn't put it at the 9. Go back and watch the clip from the UGA game that was shared. Perfect example. If the official had marked the ball at the 40, replay could have gone back in and set it at the 38. If we break the tackle and go for a TD, there's nothing that could be done, as progress was ruled stopped at the 38.

I don't know if you are just unwilling to see this or what? It's getting old. He was incorrect in ruling forward progress so soon, but there is nothing that can be done about it once he did.
 

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I don't know...you tell me. All I have said is that progress was called (way way way too soon) before the reach over the line. The play is dead right there and replay cannot add progress past that point.

I have explained MULTIPLE times how this is different than the example you showed. In that case the play continued after he had reached the 9. In our case the play was over at the 1 BEFORE he reached the ball across. Replay CANNOT add progress after the point in time that progress was ruled to have been stopped. In your case, the ballcarrier reaches the 9 and driven back to the 15 in which time the official marks progress at the 11. Replay CAN go back and say he made the 9 before the play was declared over. If he would have ruled him stopped at the 11 BEFORE reaching the 9, they couldn't put it at the 9. Go back and watch the clip from the UGA game that was shared. Perfect example. If the official had marked the ball at the 40, replay could have gone back in and set it at the 38. If we break the tackle and go for a TD, there's nothing that could be done, as progress was ruled stopped at the 38.

I don't know if you are just unwilling to see this or what? It's getting old. He was incorrect in ruling forward progress so soon, but there is nothing that can be done about it once he did.
The play was still live till it was declared dead. He did not attempt to whistle or signal till after the ball broke te plane.

The whole progress not reviewable deal is a partial truth. Progress to see if the spot is correct is not reviewable to see if it is 3rd and 9 versus 3rd and 7. 12-3-3 e made it reviewable because it was first down or TD in question not to mention several game situation inclusions in the book.

Once reviewable replay follows normal protocols. In this instance what was the furthest ball advance till declared dead. 2-9-2 defines requirement of ball becoming dead and 4-1-2 clarifies how that must happen.

They confirmed he did not correctly spot the ball where it was when he declared the ball dead due to progress ruling. The rule requires him to whistle or signal to declare the ball dead and spot the ball there. Back to both WHEN statements in PROGRESS definition and live ball becomes dead rule. I suspect they assumed no further advance issues if correctly called. I have seen no special provision for ball dead requirements
 

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I don't know...you tell me. All I have said is that progress was called (way way way too soon) before the reach over the line. The play is dead right there and replay cannot add progress past that point.

I have explained MULTIPLE times how this is different than the example you showed. In that case the play continued after he had reached the 9. In our case the play was over at the 1 BEFORE he reached the ball across. Replay CANNOT add progress after the point in time that progress was ruled to have been stopped. In your case, the ballcarrier reaches the 9 and driven back to the 15 in which time the official marks progress at the 11. Replay CAN go back and say he made the 9 before the play was declared over. If he would have ruled him stopped at the 11 BEFORE reaching the 9, they couldn't put it at the 9. Go back and watch the clip from the UGA game that was shared. Perfect example. If the official had marked the ball at the 40, replay could have gone back in and set it at the 38. If we break the tackle and go for a TD, there's nothing that could be done, as progress was ruled stopped at the 38.

I don't know if you are just unwilling to see this or what? It's getting old. He was incorrect in ruling forward progress so soon, but there is nothing that can be done about it once he did.
It sucks . . . but I agree with you. There's a difference between a player being ruled down and then going forward vs. a player gaining yardage, getting knocked back and the spot being wrong. One happens before the play is declared dead (the example), the other happens after the play is declared dead (our game).
 
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The play was still live till it was declared dead. He did not attempt to whistle or signal till after the ball broke te plane.

The whole progress not reviewable deal is a partial truth. Progress to see if the spot is correct is not reviewable to see if it is 3rd and 9 versus 3rd and 7. 12-3-3 e made it reviewable because it was first down or TD in question not to mention several game situation inclusions in the book.

Once reviewable replay follows normal protocols. In this instance what was the furthest ball advance till declared dead. 2-9-2 defines requirement of ball becoming dead and 4-1-2 clarifies how that must happen.

They confirmed he did not correctly spot the ball where it was when he declared the ball dead due to progress ruling. The rule requires him to whistle or signal to declare the ball dead and spot the ball there. Back to both WHEN statements in PROGRESS definition and live ball becomes dead rule. I suspect they assumed no further advance issues if correctly called. I have seen no special provision for ball dead requirements
I'm not going around this merry-go-round with you again on this. He declared the play over at the 1 BEFORE he reached the ball across. You don't have to like it or agree with it. There was NO touchdown in question because when he marked progress he hadn't made it that far. You can't add progress after it was declared stopped. Let's say it was a qb sneak. In the scrum, the official doesn't see the qb reach across. They come in and mark the ball short. Replay CAN go back and look at progress in that instance because the progress happened BEFORE the play was ruled over. It's not the same as our play.

It's over. We lost. The ref blew it by calling progress early. I don't know what it would take to convince you, but I apparently have lost all motivation. Please search out an official to ask them to explain it.
 
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It sucks . . . but I agree with you. There's a difference between a player being ruled down and then going forward vs. a player gaining yardage, getting knocked back and the spot being wrong. One happens before the play is declared dead (the example), the other happens after the play is declared dead (our game).
Exactly....but some people pick the craziest of hills to die on. This aint it. It sucks. The ref blew it, but there's nothing we could do about it.
 

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Exactly....but some people pick the craziest of hills to die on. This aint it. It sucks. The ref blew it, but there's nothing we could do about it.
It's a little irrational, but I think it was just such a ridiculous ruling that people can't get their head around how it can even happen. Of all the times to be quick with a forward progress call, this guy picked 4th and goal in Overtime!?! It doesn't matter how many times you watch it, you can't really figure out what the official was thinking.
 
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I'm not going around this merry-go-round with you again on this. He declared the play over at the 1 BEFORE he reached the ball across. You don't have to like it or agree with it. There was NO touchdown in question because when he marked progress he hadn't made it that far. You can't add progress after it was declared stopped. Let's say it was a qb sneak. In the scrum, the official doesn't see the qb reach across. They come in and mark the ball short. Replay CAN go back and look at progress in that instance because the progress happened BEFORE the play was ruled over. It's not the same as our play.

It's over. We lost. The ref blew it by calling progress early. I don't know what it would take to convince you, but I apparently have lost all motivation. Please search out an official to ask them to explain it.
He declared the play dead with his whistle just like 4-1-2 requires. Where was the ball when he did? Only valid question. That is what 2-9-2 and 5-1-3 both require to enforce a progress call. He then spotted the ball one yard back.

4-1-3 says shall sound whistle when he rules progress to declare the ball dead. Define Spot when you hear the first whistle, might not be yours.
 
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It's a little irrational, but I think it was just such a ridiculous ruling that people can't get their head around how it can even happen. Of all the times to be quick with a forward progress call, this guy picked 4th and goal in Overtime!?! It doesn't matter how many times you watch it, you can't really figure out what the official was thinking.
I know. When Doug Matthews had Tom Ritter on his radio show to talk about that play, he blasted that crew. He said he never should have stopped it that soon. He also blasted the white hat by confusing everybody with that crappy review after-the-fact when he said (correctly) that the play wasn't allowed to be reviewed. He said he coached his crews that forward progress should be stopped only when the ball carrier is being actively driven back. He didn't understand what he could have seen to stop it there. He also said the "pull" wasn't an issue since the pull wasn't beneficial to his progress if they would have let the play go. He reached the ball across instead of being pulled across. He said if the "pull" had caused him to break the plane, then it would have been a foul. He is usually muted in his criticism of officials, but he got on them pretty good.
 
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He declared the play dead with his whistle just like 4-1-2 requires. Where was the ball when he did? Only valid question. That is what 2-9-2 and 5-1-3 both require to enforce a progress call. He then spotted the ball one yard back.

4-1-3 says shall sound whistle when he rules progress to declare the ball dead. Define Spot when you hear the first whistle, might not be yours.




Again with the whistle crap. Find an official....ask them. Play dead at the 1...play over...not reviewable...

Can't help you any more than that.
 

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Find a rule in any official NCAA publication that supports the concept that an official's RULING on a spot of the advancement of the ball on a progress call overrides the rest of the rules requirements that ball be spotted at the furthest most spot attained up to the time. Explain why there are many lines in both the rules and ruling sections as well as the Casebook devoted to replay reviewing progress calls.

The rules and definitions I have posted over and over consistently support the ball is to be spotted on progress calls according to WHEN WHEN WHEN the ball becomes dead. Pre replay we were stuck with the call and the spot. Go check out how many AR's at the end of the rulebook have different ways to rule with and without replay. Same is true for spots based an where they went down or went out of bounds.

Replay cannot overturn the fact a progress call is made and when the call is executed even if the guy bounces off the pile and runs another 50 yards the ball is dead, but also dead at the point it is declared dead not some spot a ref THINKS it is.

I will add one more rule to my lengthy presentation.

Spot Where Run Ends ARTICLE 8. The spot where the run ends is the point: a. Where the ball is declared dead in player possession.

Our run ended when the ball broke the plane before his whistle or signal. NOTHING I have seen puts the spot by an official on a progress call in a special class. Get all your smart guys to show you one and share it. His thoughts on the sideline do not override the requirement to declare the ball dead and spot the ball accordingly. Progress is for sure dead and reviewable at the time it is legally declared. When was that?
 
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Find a rule in any official NCAA publication that supports the concept that an official's RULING on a spot of the advancement of the ball on a progress call overrides the rest of the rules requirements that ball be spotted at the furthest most spot attained up to the time. Explain why there are many lines in both the rules and ruling sections as well as the Casebook devoted to replay reviewing progress calls.

The rules and definitions I have posted over and over consistently support the ball is to be spotted on progress calls according to WHEN WHEN WHEN the ball becomes dead. Pre replay we were stuck with the call and the spot. Go check out how many AR's at the end of the rulebook have different ways to rule with and without replay. Same is true for spots based an where they went down or went out of bounds.

Replay cannot overturn the fact a progress call is made and when the call is executed even if the guy bounces off the pile and runs another 50 yards the ball is dead, but also dead at the point it is declared dead not some spot a ref THINKS it is.

I will add one more rule to my lengthy presentation.

Spot Where Run Ends ARTICLE 8. The spot where the run ends is the point: a. Where the ball is declared dead in player possession.

Our run ended when the ball broke the plane before his whistle or signal. NOTHING I have seen puts the spot by an official on a progress call in a special class. Get all your smart guys to show you one and share it. His thoughts on the sideline do not override the requirement to declare the ball dead and spot the ball accordingly. Progress is for sure dead and reviewable at the time it is legally declared. When was that?
A live ball becomes dead and an official shall declare it dead when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped. When in question, the ball is dead


Declared dead at the 1. Play over. Replay cant help.

 
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A live ball becomes dead and an official shall declare it dead when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped. When in question, the ball is dead


Declared dead at the 1. Play over. Replay cant help.

NO, he blew the whistle and signaled for the the clock to stop after the ball broke the plane. He did come in and errantly spot the ball at the one after the play was already legally dead due to the ball breaking the plane. 4-1-2 defines how a ball is declared dead and stipulates the play is alive until it is declared with the WHEN statement and retroactively applying a judgement is not one of them. Progress rules ALL stipulate it. Replay should have completed a review and followed their own rules.

The GREAT MISCONCEPTION about the progress call not being reviewable is sort of covered in the Replay Casebook with the following clarification. The vast majority of plays would not be covered by this game situation ruling. This one obviously is.

Non-Reviewable Play Situations on Runs

25. Spot of ball not involved with a first down or goal line Second and 10 on the B-29. Runner A22 is tackled in bounds at the Team B 22-yard line. The Line Judge spots the ball at the Team B 21-yard line. RULING: Not reviewable, as the spot does not involve a first down or the goal line. A 3-2 on B-21 (Rule 12-3-3-e).

So a review of a spot based on a ref's judgment for Progress is just as reviewable as it is for down by contact or out of bounds. we see it all the time when they are unpiling folks at the goal line to see if a ref properly RULED or DELCARED progress and spotted it down at the 1. They change the calls if indicated. because the runner gets what he earned to the whistle even though he had been declared stopped and the guy ran in with that ruling. Can't argue with whether or not the call was valid or made and a legal declaration of ball dead is final, but most forward location of the ball when legally declared DEAD OR DEAD BY RULE is reviewable in this case. They might have found his knee hit for example and respotted accordingly.

It was in the endzone unless there is an earlier valid signal.
 
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NO, he blew the whistle and signaled for the the clock to stop after the ball broke the plane. He did come in and errantly spot the ball at the one after the play was already legally dead due to the ball breaking the plane. 4-1-2 defines how a ball is declared dead and stipulates the play is alive until it is declared with the WHEN statement and retroactively applying a judgement is not one of them. Progress rules ALL stipulate it. Replay should have completed a review and followed their own rules.

The GREAT MISCONCEPTION about the progress call not being reviewable is sort of covered in the Replay Casebook with the following clarification. The vast majority of plays would not be covered by this game situation ruling. This one obviously is.

Non-Reviewable Play Situations on Runs

25. Spot of ball not involved with a first down or goal line Second and 10 on the B-29. Runner A22 is tackled in bounds at the Team B 22-yard line. The Line Judge spots the ball at the Team B 21-yard line. RULING: Not reviewable, as the spot does not involve a first down or the goal line. A 3-2 on B-21 (Rule 12-3-3-e).

So a review of a spot based on a ref's judgment for Progress is just as reviewable as it is for down by contact or out of bounds. we see it all the time when they are unpiling folks at the goal line to see if a ref properly RULED or DELCARED progress and spotted it down at the 1. They change the calls if indicated. because the runner gets what he earned to the whistle even though he had been declared stopped and the guy ran in with that ruling. Can't argue with whether or not the call was valid or made and a legal declaration of ball dead is final, but most forward location of the ball when legally declared DEAD OR DEAD BY RULE is reviewable in this case. They might have found his knee hit for example and respotted accordingly.

It was in the endzone unless there is an earlier vallid signal.
At this point you are just being unnecessarily stubborn. Literally NO official would agree with you....NONE!!!! Just stop. I've explained the play. I've explained why the play in your last example was completely different to our play. If the whistle was what mattered, they would have been able to review it and overturn it. It doesn't so they couldn't.

A live ball becomes dead and an official shall declare it dead when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped. When in question, the ball is dead

Declared dead at the 1. Play over. Replay cant help.

 

SayUWantAreVOLution

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At this point you are just being unnecessarily stubborn. Literally NO official would agree with you....NONE!!!! Just stop. I've explained the play. I've explained why the play in your last example was completely different to our play. If the whistle was what mattered, they would have been able to review it and overturn it. It doesn't so they couldn't.

A live ball becomes dead and an official shall declare it dead when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped. When in question, the ball is dead

Declared dead at the 1. Play over. Replay cant help.

You have an enormous amount of patience. I'll also note that the title of the thread is "Final rant......"

Rant comes from the Dutch "ranten" ...... to talk nonsense.

Rant - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms
 
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You have an enormous amount of patience. I'll also note that the title of the thread is "Final rant......"

Rant comes from the Dutch "ranten" ...... to talk nonsense.

Rant - Definition, Meaning & Synonyms
lol...Well, the "nonsense" is flowing freely around here lately. Odd hill for people to die on, but too each their own.

Rant - A rant is an argument that is fueled by passion, not shaped by facts.
 

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