everybody seems

[volinbama256]

Clemson should of canned dabo a couple of years ago right?

So by using this analogy, are you saying Butch is the one to get us to a Championship?

 

[BleedingButch]

"Failed miserably" is too strong. He is a slightly above average coach with slightly above average results. Nothing more.

Losing to Vandy in embarassing fashion is considered above average now for UT?

 

[felloffthetrain]

There's no hype from the media this offseason because we lost some games we won the year prior and flat dominated Northwestern in the bowl game. Dobbs looked like a sleeper Heisman candidate, returning seniors. We looked like we had major momentum to carry us into the 16 season. There were some great ups but also some great downs and you can't have those great downs and get the hype. Personally, I don't feel it this season, but that may just be for the very reason I stated, it's just not there in the media like it was a year ago, which translates to me that nobody is as excited about Tennessee this coming season as they were a year ago.

 

[CA_Vol]

to have settled down about this team 121.I'm not seeing a lot of enthuisam as in past years. not hardley any up dates on practices.a few by fingers,but no body else. no post about how great certain players are or gonna be. about how we are gonna win the east,sec.
has everybody taken a wait and see attitude?:thumbsup:

This is what the beginning of apathy looks like. Some of us understand the beginning of the end of the Jones era was USCe.

 

[jakez4ut]

There's no hype from the media this offseason because we lost some games we won the year prior and flat dominated Northwestern in the bowl game. Dobbs looked like a sleeper Heisman candidate, returning seniors. We looked like we had major momentum to carry us into the 16 season. There were some great ups but also some great downs and you can't have those great downs and get the hype. Personally, I don't feel it this season, but that may just be for the very reason I stated, it's just not there in the media like it was a year ago, which translates to me that nobody is as excited about Tennessee this coming season as they were a year ago.

long story short, the last two years has shown many the "identity" of TN football, and combine that with new coaches, new qb and losing possibly your 6 best players to the NFL, it's hard to make a case that 121 will out perform the aforementioned identity of the last two years.

rather, it's likely that with all the changes and talent departures, 121 should take a step back, or at best, remain the same.

nothing to see here until proven otherwise.

 

[jbr82]

He gets a bit of a pass last season due to all the injuries. He needs to have a good season this year whatever that means. Unfortunately he's in a league where good may never be good enough.

Many believe UT still should have beaten bottom feeders SC and Vandy. Maybe shouldn't have fired the S&C coach!? But since last season ended bad many had their faith injured. We should get a pass too

 

[NewRiver_Vol]

Honestly, I'm not fired up like years past. Wait and see I guess.

 

[sechamp2012]

Clemson
Year OA Conf
2009 9–5 6–2
2010 6–7 4–4
2011 10–4 6–2
2012 11–2 7–1
2013 11–2 7–1
2014 10–3 6–2
2015 14–1 8–0
2016 14–1 7–1

No one outside of some idiots on twitter wanted Swinney fired after his second year as HBC, but please tell me how those numbers above are anything like CBJ's at UT?

Yeah and the ACC is the toughest conference in America top to bottom bar none.

 

[Biopsyman]

to have settled down about this team 121.I'm not seeing a lot of enthuisam as in past years. not hardley any up dates on practices.a few by fingers,but no body else. no post about how great certain players are or gonna be. about how we are gonna win the east,sec.
has everybody taken a wait and see attitude?:thumbsup:

The whole team number (121) is so Butch

 

[v011s]

History has taught us that Tennessee doesn't do well with high expectations. I want every media outlet to trash us and pick us last in the east. Then maybe that will motivate our players and coaches to work that much harder. Doubt is a good motivator.

Only guaranteed 12 games a season.

If players need to be dumped on in order to be motivated, the team has bigger issues.

 

[johnrlansford]

I really don't know how anyone could be excited with Butch as our coach any longer. He's failed miserably in the past and nothing I've seen leads me to believe he can make it happen. Sorry not sorry

Butch has led us to back to back 9 win seasons. Granted we could have won more but when was the last time pre-Butch that that has happened.

You could say that he has hit his ceiling but not that he hasn't shown anything to make you believe that he can make it happen. Oh how quickly we forget how bad we were pre-Butch.

I am not defending him as a coach because he has made some bad decisions, but players have to make plays as well...and quiet frankly they haven't especially on the defensive side of the ball!!!

You put Florida's defense with our offense last year and we are in the playoffs, Butch can still turn it around if Shoop can have the kind of defense that he is known for having. This train hasn't stopped moving forward yet! This team could be really good if the defense can get it together this year.

Go Vols!!!

 

[BeardedVol]

Yeah and the ACC is the toughest conference in America top to bottom bar none.

Did I say the ACC was the toughest conference?

You can argue conference difficulty all day long, but over the past few years outside of Alabama, I wouldn't say the SEC as a whole was making the case that it was the most difficult conference either; especially the SECe.

 

[johnrlansford]

This is what the beginning of apathy looks like. Some of us understand the beginning of the end of the Jones era was USCe.

Just because some fans think it was the beginning of the end doesn't make it fact! The administration isn't anywhere near as pissed at Butch as some of you are!

He will be our coach through 2018 count on it!!! He will do enough to keep his job this year and probably over achieve enough to buy himself and extention. I pick us as a sleeper to win the SEC East!

Georgia is the Tennessee of last season, they will be hyped and not deliver to expectations.

Florida still doesn't have a QB and there defense has lost a lot.

Butch wins the SEC East and extends his tenure through 2018 minimal.

You heard it here first yall!!!

 

[johnrlansford]

Did I say the ACC was the toughest conference?

You can argue conference difficulty all day long, but over the past few years outside of Alabama, I wouldn't say the SEC as a whole was making the case that it was the most difficult conference either; especially the SECe.

So which conference has made that arguement in your mind?

 

[BeardedVol]

So which conference has made that arguement in your mind?

During which season? I generally have disdain for the B1G because I think it has the greatest number of consistently average/poorly performing teams as a whole, but the ACC, SEC, PAC12, and even the Big12 have had years where overall it could be argued that their conference was "superior" that year.

 

[jakez4ut]

the ACC and BIG have been better than the SEC the last two years, top to bottom. aside from Alabama, no one else has been carrying the flag.

as for Clemson and Dabo, even thru 2013, there were a lot of questions about what his "ultimate" success rate could be. those early years the ACC wasn't great, and it wasn't nearly as deep a conf as it is now.

"clemsoning" came about under his watch, and it was due to the successive losses to USCe (lost 5 straight 09-13), the inconsistency against FSU(1-3 his 1st 4 years), and the bowl game performances....

i remember clearly here in the carolinas after the orange bowl they got waxed in by 70 or whatever, it was definitely a question as to whether or not they should get rid of Dabo and get someone that could get them over those humps. the argument being that the ACC wasn't great, and it was a two horse league...FSU and CLemson.

they started to turn a bit of a corner, as they beat Auburn twice, beat GA in an opener, and then beat LSU in that peach bowl. while all that was happening though, you still had the annual loss to USCe, and sparse success against FSU. those were the games keeping them from doing something nationally relevant.

he made the changes to the staff, and the rest is history.

it was premature to really consider firing him at the time, but the talk was real, and fairly loud.

 

[sjt18]

to have settled down about this team 121.I'm not seeing a lot of enthuisam as in past years. not hardley any up dates on practices.a few by fingers,but no body else. no post about how great certain players are or gonna be. about how we are gonna win the east,sec.
has everybody taken a wait and see attitude?:thumbsup:

Probably more settled in our opinions of where this appears to be going... and our expectations for where we think it should be going.

For the Jones followers... everything is great and the new date for second coming of Vol football greatness is 2018 (previous predictions of 2015 or 2016 "at the latest" should be ignored). You can criticize players, assistants, fans, admin, recruits, other coaches,.... but you cannot question whether Jones has done a good job or not.

For those of us who look at him critically... we see a coach who has underperformed for 4 seasons and stands a very good chance due to circumstances of keeping the job for 6 years whether he deserves to or not. We see a guy whose best recruiting hinged on a class with unusual instate talent coupled with legacy players. We see a guy who went 4-4 in the SEC last fall in spite of having the most talented and experienced roster in the SEC East.

Outside of an unexpected overperformance this fall... I do not see Jones recruiting well enough much less coaching well enough to ever be better than 2nd tier. Others are apparently convinced that all he needs is unlimited time and NO expectations... to become GREAT.

 

[orangebloodgmc]

probably more settled in our opinions of where this appears to be going... And our expectations for where we think it should be going.

For the jones followers... Everything is great and the new date for second coming of vol football greatness is 2018 (previous predictions of 2015 or 2016 "at the latest" should be ignored). You can criticize players, assistants, fans, admin, recruits, other coaches,.... But you cannot question whether jones has done a good job or not.

For those of us who look at him critically... We see a coach who has underperformed for 4 seasons and stands a very good chance due to circumstances of keeping the job for 6 years whether he deserves to or not. We see a guy whose best recruiting hinged on a class with unusual instate talent coupled with legacy players. We see a guy who went 4-4 in the sec last fall in spite of having the most talented and experienced roster in the sec east, prior to catastrophic injuries, losing multiple captains, causing him to play 3rd team lbs vs. Bama and be playing more than one freshman on the ol near the end of regular season.

outside of an unexpected overperformance this fall... I do not see jones recruiting well enough much less coaching well enough to ever be better than 2nd tier. Others are apparently convinced that all he needs is unlimited time and no expectations... To become great.

fyp

 

[KBVol]

fyp

"More than one freshman on the OL"? Who? Tatum played the second half vs Bama when the game was already long since lost. He had no impact on the loss.

And you can't possibly make the argument that we should've lost vs SCar and Vandy with our "3rd string linebackers".....even though first string DKJr, and second-stringers Jumper and McDowell were getting the majority of the LB snaps at that point.

Also, "losing multiple captains"? What does that even mean? Dobbs and AK played all year, and Sutton played in 7 games. Only JRM was lost to most of the season. Besides, you already said we had catastrophic injuries...you're double dipping on your excuses here.

 

[BeardedVol]

"More than one freshman on the OL"? Who? Tatum played the second half vs Bama when the game was already long since lost. He had no impact on the loss.

And you can't possibly make the argument that we should've lost vs SCar and Vandy with our "3rd string linebackers".....even though first string DKJr, and second-stringers Jumper and McDowell were getting the majority of the LB snaps at that point.

Also, "losing multiple captains"? What does that even mean? Dobbs and AK played all year, and Sutton played in 7 games. Only JRM was lost to most of the season. Besides, you already said we had catastrophic injuries...you're double dipping on your excuses here.

Not to mention that LB play in the Alabama game had nothing to do with us only scoring 10 points. At least not our LB play.

 

[Iam4utalways]

Before we beat Florida like a drum(blue) last year, the most popular answer was "I've got to see it to believe it", so many Vol fans give more credit to the competition than our own team.

This is my take on Butch:

1) He has done a lot of good for us on and off the field.

2) He has let games slip away, he has also let SECe Titles slip away as well.

3) Players have quit him and the team, but the team hasn't quit(last year alone they could have quit 2 or 3 times in September).

4) Can he lead us to a NC? Maybe he can, maybe he can't. At this point nobody knows for sure. So many won't use their favorite line, "I've got to see it to believe it.", they go straight to, "No chance.".

Rock can get 121 ready for 2017. I like our chances.

We have 8 expected wins(by most) and 4 games that will be a dog fight(toss up), all are winnable.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Clemson should of canned dabo a couple of years ago right?

Yeah because Dabos and Butch's records are exactly the same right? Good God.

 

[jakez4ut]

Before we beat Florida like a drum(blue) last year, the most popular answer was "I've got to see it to believe it", so many Vol fans give more credit to the competition than our own team.

This is my take on Butch:

1) He has done a lot of good for us on and off the field.

2) He has let games slip away, he has also let SECe Titles slip away as well.

3) Players have quit him and the team, but the team hasn't quit(last year alone they could have quit 2 or 3 times in September).

4) Can he lead us to a NC? Maybe he can, maybe he can't. At this point nobody knows for sure. So many won't use their favorite line, "I've got to see it to believe it.", they go straight to, "No chance.".

Rock can get 121 ready for 2017. I like our chances.

We have 8 expected wins(by most) and 4 games that will be a dog fight(toss up), all are winnable.

good post. but i think after last year, it turned from "ill beleive it when it see it" to "i believe what i see".:blink:

 

[Iam4utalways]

good post. but i think after last year, it turned from "ill beleive it when it see it" to "i believe what i see".:blink:

After the Hail Mary I was looking for a flag or something to make it where we would lose(The Dooley Affect). The LSU and the North Caroline games wrecked me. Same for the 2015 Ga game.

I can't say "I believe what I see.".

Bama gunna bama, but I still like our chances.

 

[46yrvol]

People can go round and round all day long about the injury situation from either end of the spectrum. This is the reason!! No that's an excuse!!

On one hand, we have to accept the fact that we just were not the team we started with before the midway point of the season. There were two areas that I thought we thin at going into the season and that was dt and lb. It seemed that most , if not all of the season ending injuries happened in those areas.

On the other hand, this did not just happen. The past season's failures were failures of the off-season. If it was known at the time that the o-line showed up for fall camp out of shape, I would have told you to brace your selves for a major letdown. It was also publicized that there was a long row to hue in a 7 game stretch, with the last 4 being called the gauntlet. The last thing they needed was to let games, that had no business being high intensity, become just that. I remember thinking after the App St game, that we were going to feel the effects of this come the A&M and Ala games. I know that many injuries are bad lucky, but do you really think that it was just coincidence that players were dropping out like flies during that five hour game at Kyle field. Even without the injuries I didn't think there would be anything left in the tank when Bama came to town.

This is why I was more negative when we were 5-0 and people were getting Butch haircuts. Do you remember sarcasm? When we would fall behind 17-0 people remarked amusingly "we got them were we want them", or the jokes about the heart attack rate in Tn going up. It might of made for good entertainment but this team was stressing it's self (mentally and physically) to the brink. We've got to stop acting like little boys and these players are action figures. These are human bodies that have limits and they are motivated by 18-21 year old minds. With that in mind, stop acting like DK jr. and Cam Sutton made it back ok. After nearly two months off their feet, they were in no position to be any more effective than any of the second or third stringers. Not fair to them.

The conclusion is that on the one hand you can't trivialize the devastation of this injury epidemic. Then again you have to acknowledge that the coaching staff was spitting in the wind when it came to preparing for this 16 season and the effects were devastating. Many coaches do it while riding the hype train. When you face it you have to realize that its real and has to be taken seriously.

We didn't just up and decide to hype up this season for no reason. CBJ brought us to that point because of what was built up in the first three years, I'll give him that. Now that he missed his chance in the spot light, he'll have to have a bounce back year in the dark (I kind of prefer it that way), like a thief in the nite. He built the foundation, now can he complete the structure?