Dormady v. Guarantano

#176
#176
There will be healthy competition in the QB spot. For the first time in a long time, I am not overly concerned with QB play.
 
#178
#178
I think Butch found himself in a somewhat amusing quandary both in 2014 and this past season. Josh wasn't exactly the QB Butch was looking for, but he was way too much of a difference maker for Butch to pass up. I suspect that during Josh's freshman year, and again last year with the help of Mike DeBord, Butch was trying to "engineer" Dobbs into a slightly different type of QB than he is. But at some point, gave up, shrugged his shoulders, accepted that "Josh is Josh," and turned to making the most of who he is rather than who he'd like him to be.

This "difference maker" quality of Josh's is what all but ensures he's the starter for the 2016 campaign. He just has that "it" factor that wins games, when you let it loose. Okay, maybe he's not the most consistent passer in the world, but maybe he doesn't have to be ... we can maybe still win championships with him as he is. Which can be pretty compelling and exciting to watch.

So let's just whup all dey azzes and leave the 2017 QB competition between QD and JG where it belongs, a year+ in the future.

Go Vols!
 
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#179
#179
VFL-82-JP said:
I think Butch found himself in a somewhat amusing quandary both in 2014 and this past season. Josh wasn't exactly the QB Butch was looking for, but he was way too much of a difference maker for Butch to pass up. I suspect that during Josh's freshman year, and again last year with the help of Mike DeBord, Butch was trying to "engineer" Dobbs into a slightly different type of QB than he is. But at some point, gave up, shrugged his shoulders, accepted that "Josh is Josh," and turned to making the most of who he is rather than who he'd like him to be.

This "difference maker" quality of Josh's is what all but ensures he's the starter for the 2016 campaign. He just has that "it" factor that wins games, when you let it loose. Okay, maybe he's not the most consistent passer in the world, but maybe he doesn't have to be ... we can maybe still win championships with him as he is. Which can be pretty compelling and exciting to watch.

So let's just whup all dey azzes and leave the 2017 QB competition between QD and JG where it belongs, a year+ in the future.

Go Vols!
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The other main thing of note about Dobbs is he is the proven leader of this offense and he has the respect and admiration of his teammates. To even attempt to dethrone him and put Dormady in at this point would be severely detrimental to the continuity of the program. Butch has a developed a machine over the past three years and it'd be foolish to make any huge changes to it in it's fourth year.
 
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#180
#180
Coug said:
The other main thing of note about Dobbs is he is the proven leader of this offense and he has the respect and admiration of his teammates. To even attempt to dethrone him and put Dormady in at this point would be severely detrimental to the continuity of the program. Butch has a developed a machine over the past three years and it'd be foolish to make any huge changes to it in it's fourth year.
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Yeah, good point, Coug.
 
#181
#181
VFL-82-JP said:
I think Butch found himself in a somewhat amusing quandary both in 2014 and this past season. Josh wasn't exactly the QB Butch was looking for, but he was way too much of a difference maker for Butch to pass up. I suspect that during Josh's freshman year, and again last year with the help of Mike DeBord, Butch was trying to "engineer" Dobbs into a slightly different type of QB than he is. But at some point, gave up, shrugged his shoulders, accepted that "Josh is Josh," and turned to making the most of who he is rather than who he'd like him to be.

This "difference maker" quality of Josh's is what all but ensures he's the starter for the 2016 campaign. He just has that "it" factor that wins games, when you let it loose. Okay, maybe he's not the most consistent passer in the world, but maybe he doesn't have to be ... we can maybe still win championships with him as he is. Which can be pretty compelling and exciting to watch.

So let's just whup all dey azzes and leave the 2017 QB competition between QD and JG where it belongs, a year+ in the future.

Go Vols!
Click to expand...

???

Do you have any evidence to support this outrageous theory?

Josh was essentially Butch's first recruit at Tennessee. He flipped him on NSD from ASU. How on earth could Butch not know what he was getting? Butch runs an uptempo spread offense which had a QB run for 1000 yards in the past.

How could you suggest Butch was trying to "engineer" Dobbs into a different QB? He was a dual-threat QB recruit according to 247 and ESPN and has been used just like that.
 
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#182
#182
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
???

Do you have any evidence to support this outrageous theory?

Josh was essentially Butch's first recruit at Tennessee. He flipped him on NSD from ASU. How on earth could Butch not know what he was getting? Butch runs an uptempo spread offense which had a QB run for 1000 yards in the past.

How could you suggest Butch was trying to "engineer" Dobbs into a different QB? He was a dual-threat QB recruit according to 247 and ESPN and has been used just like that.
Click to expand...

Maybe butch thought he was getting a TRUE dual threat QB. Instead Dobbs has shown he still can't throw accurately after 3 years at UT.
 
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#183
#183
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
???

Do you have any evidence to support this outrageous theory?

Josh was essentially Butch's first recruit at Tennessee. He flipped him on NSD from ASU. How on earth could Butch not know what he was getting? Butch runs an uptempo spread offense which had a QB run for 1000 yards in the past.

How could you suggest Butch was trying to "engineer" Dobbs into a different QB? He was a dual-threat QB recruit according to 247 and ESPN and has been used just like that.
Click to expand...

Butch also recruited and signed Dontavious Blair...think he knew what he was getting there?
 
#184
#184
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
???

Do you have any evidence to support this outrageous theory?
Click to expand...

Heh, no, D4H, just thinking out loud. The facts that got me thinking in this direction were the (2014 and 2015) pre-season comments by Butch that Josh was "a work in progress" and "still working on consistency" and the like, combined with his attempts both years to red shirt Josh (which, purportedly, was also about a promise to Josh's parents for academic purposes).

As for Butch knowing Josh when he recruited him, naturally he did. And yet all coaches recruit on the promise a player holds as much as what he can already do in high school. Josh would be no different than any other recruit, there. One "for instance" that I'm sure you can agree with: Butch had to know when he was recruiting Josh that the young man could stand to improve his consistency, but Butch took him on anyway. In that sense, you'd agree that Butch intended to "engineer" (train up, develop) Dobbs.

Don't take my thoughts too seriously, D4H, and certainly not as an insult to the young man. Not intended as negative in any way. Just supposition, that's all.
 
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#186
#186
VFL-82-JP said:
Yeah, good point, Coug.
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It is a good point. But this is all assuming that Dormady is a better QB. Maybe Josh is just the better option, Period. end of discussion.

We are all assuming that the small flashes of talent we have seen from Dormady is even worth the opportunity to play here. He may win the Job in 2017 but if he doesn't are fans going to be that upset? JG may not win the starting spot in 2017, if we win who cares. We may get a true Freshamn who comes in 2017 or a transfer and they may win the starting job.

All we should be worried about right now is that Josh Dobbs stays healthy and wins football games. 2017 is gonna be a great year of competition at the QB spot but let's let our proven winner go out there and lead us to our possible first SEC championship in over a decade and even a possible Playoff birth.

Fans should appreciate what they have, it isn't always greener on the other side. VolNation should know that as well as anyone considering the trials we have endured for many many many years.
 
#187
#187
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
???

Do you have any evidence to support this outrageous theory?

Josh was essentially Butch's first recruit at Tennessee. He flipped him on NSD from ASU. How on earth could Butch not know what he was getting? Butch runs an uptempo spread offense which had a QB run for 1000 yards in the past.

How could you suggest Butch was trying to "engineer" Dobbs into a different QB? He was a dual-threat QB recruit according to 247 and ESPN and has been used just like that.
Click to expand...

The only thing outrageous is your reply. Sometimes the truth hurts.
 
#189
#189
Kristy* said:
Haha. Math = Hard. :)

Or maybe it's easier to blow smoke to fit the narrative knowing that most people won't check the stats.
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Yeah, UT should probably fix that mistake on their website if it's not correct. Surprised no one has told them about it. Dobbs has been around a long time.
 
#191
#191
AdmiralVFL98 said:
One of the best things I've heard coach Shoop talk about since becoming a Vol is that it is his job to tailor his scheme to the talents of his players. I know we won't change the offense completely, but I'm sure there is some room to make the offense more Dormady friendly. Competition is good for the team and I hope it's a close one.
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That is the thing . The most accurate passer wins the job . Butch's offense is based on layered West Coast passing ...which requires quick decisions and accurate passing . But we have Dobbs , who can do neither of those things but is an incredible runner . They did not want this skill set , so they tried to start Worley . But when it ended up being Dobbs ...they changed the offense to suit his skills .

I think going forward they will get back to a balanced offense , featuring west coast passing and power running from the running back position . They guy that can pass wins the job ...added bonus if he can run and extend plays
 
#192
#192
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
???

Do you have any evidence to support this outrageous theory?

Josh was essentially Butch's first recruit at Tennessee. He flipped him on NSD from ASU. How on earth could Butch not know what he was getting? Butch runs an uptempo spread offense which had a QB run for 1000 yards in the past.

How could you suggest Butch was trying to "engineer" Dobbs into a different QB? He was a dual-threat QB recruit according to 247 and ESPN and has been used just like that.
Click to expand...

NOt the style of QB that Butch leans to ...hence his insistence to try to start Worley . Uptempo spread offense .....but there is so much more to it than that . It is a horizontally layered west coast passing game delivered from the Rich Rod spread formation . The running game is a power game delivered from the spread. It is a very flexible offense , as you recently saw Dobbs under center with a H back at fullback , running from the shotgun , ect ect

What the offense requires is an accurate passer ...thats why they insisted on Worley over Dobbs . This trumps the running or mobile option and has historically for Butch . A young Peyton Manning beats out all the running QBs in this offense. If a QB can administer the passing game and run too , BONUS ! The secret here is that the Coaches want a guy that can pass for 300 yards a game ...rather than just run for 70 and pass for 150.

The game has changed for Dobbs and justifiably so . At this point in his career , he is not THAT passer . The offense has changed over the length of the season to use Dobbs' abilities and hide his shortcomings ..which is smart ...but not the type of football that Butch wants to play . The future QB will be a guy that can administer the passing game to a high level . It will be nice if he can run , but if he can pass ...he might not need to
 
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#193
#193
But Dobbs is a more accurate passer than Worley was. He wanted to save Dobbs to have him in 2017. That's the only reason Worley started.
 
#194
#194
People need to quit using Worley as an example. He gave it everything he had but wasn't very talented. Being better than him at anything isn't a bullet point.
 
#195
#195
k-town_king said:
But Dobbs is a more accurate passer than Worley was. He wanted to save Dobbs to have him in 2017. That's the only reason Worley started.
Click to expand...

Butch never wanted to start Dobbs. Dobbs started several games in 2013 ...and then was benched in favor or Worley and only then got the nod in 2014 after Worley's injury . This was not a red shirt issue ...this was a coaching decision .

The offense has been tailored to suit JDs skill set , and the passing game has been minimized to hide his weakness. I am am all for the guy succeeding as a passer ...it just has not happened yet

This is not the design of the CBJs offense . They want a QB that can stretch the field horizontally and vertically with the passing game , short mid range and deep in the true spirit of the west coast game which this 4 verticals hybrid offense is rooted in

The QB running is nice but not necessary in this design and if JDs could pass for the yardage , you would never see a designed QB run . The best passer will win the job .
 
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#196
#196
k-town_king said:
But Dobbs is a more accurate passer than Worley was. He wanted to save Dobbs to have him in 2017. That's the only reason Worley started.
Click to expand...

Link? How do you know? I don't think that's what you think you heard or know or have observed. I'm gonna need more.....sources, links, articles and whatnot.
 
#197
#197
majic73 said:
Butch never wanted to start Dobbs. Dobbs started several games in 2013 ...and then was benched in favor or Worley and only then got the nod in 2014 after Worley's injury . This was not a red shirt issue ...this was a coaching decision .

The offense has been tailored to suit JDs skill set , and the passing game has been minimized to hide his weakness. I am am all for the guy succeeding as a passer ...it just has not happened yet

This is not the design of the CBJs offense . They want a QB that can stretch the field horizontally and vertically with the passing game , short mid range and deep in the true spirit of the west coast game which this 4 verticals hybrid offense is rooted in

The QB running is nice but not necessary in this design and if JDs could pass for the yardage , you would never see a designed QB run . The best passer will win the job .
Click to expand...

The staff tried to redshirt Dobbs in 2013 but were unable to when Worley was injured. The same is true in 2014. If he had been the best option at the beginning of the season, then he would have been tabbed the starter. But he didn't win the job. But they DID try to redshirt him both years.

Dobbs isn't the best passer. But he is the leader of the offense. He's smart and determined. He proves that you don't have to be a good passer to be a good QB. He has plenty of areas to improve upon. Hopefully some of those will be resolved this offseason.

Dobbs will be the starter in 2016.
 
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#198
#198
Kristy* said:
The staff tried to redshirt Dobbs in 2013 but were unable to when Worley was injured. The same is true in 2014. If he had been the best option at the beginning of the season, then he would have been tabbed the starter. But he didn't win the job. But they DID try to redshirt him both years.

Dobbs isn't the best passer. But he is the leader of the offense. He's smart and determined. He proves that you don't have to be a good passer to be a good QB. He has plenty of areas to improve upon. Hopefully some of those will be resolved this offseason.

Dobbs will be the starter in 2016.
Click to expand...

Perfectly and accurately said.
 
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#199
#199
Kristy* said:
The staff tried to redshirt Dobbs in 2013 but were unable to when Worley was injured. The same is true in 2014. If he had been the best option at the beginning of the season, then he would have been tabbed the starter. But he didn't win the job. But they DID try to redshirt him both years.

Dobbs isn't the best passer. But he is the leader of the offense. He's smart and determined. He proves that you don't have to be a good passer to be a good QB. He has plenty of areas to improve upon. Hopefully some of those will be resolved this offseason.

Dobbs will be the starter in 2016.
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I dont disagree with anything you have said , and am looking forward to Dobbs as the starter next season and hope that he takes his game to the next level

I think the conversation / debate has been about who the 2017 starter will be
 
#200
#200
Jav in a thread on TOS said that during review Jones and Debord have come to the conclusion that the two main issues in the passing game are o line break downs and Dobbs hesitation leading to inaccurate throws. He can make any throw anywhere on the field in practice but in game he becomes over analytical and less instinctive. when reading defenses if his Pre-snap read is wrong he goes conservative to prevent turnovers and tend to miss open receivers in his check downs. They believe if they can get rid of the hesitation the passing game will take the next step.
 
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