Dodd: Butch Jones is Underrated

#5
#5
Not sure how Dobbs being highly intelligent, and highly athletic, is a sign that CBJ is underrated; one seems to have nothing to do with the other.
 
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#7
#7
I counter with the following video posted from Colin Cowherd on Chip Kelly coaching the Vols... On one hand he praises UT as a top 10 school, but follows with the fact that we have a gym teacher as a coach.

I LIKE CBJ, but I'd LOVE Chip Kelly to be the coach.

http://www.rockytoptalk.com/2017/6/...ching-carousel-tennessee-hot-seat-butch-jones

Is CBJ underrated, I don't think so. As a recruiter he's been great, but in game coaching and adjustments, I think he gets his fair criticism. My hope is that we take another step forward this coming season and CBJ proves the doubters (including me at times) wrong and he sticks around, but I can't help but imagine what the alternative could be should we not.
 
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#10
#10
The disconnect is, for all the good CBJ has done, he has fallen short in achieving what a large number of UT fans really want-- to win the SECE and play in the SECCG. Touting academic improvement, bowl wins, putting players in the NFL sidesteps what UT fans fault him for-- failing to win the SECE with a team full of talent. If he had stumbled into ATL with the same record, he would have gotten a nice raise, an extension and the fan support he wants.

Give the people what they want and they'll be happy.
 
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#11
#11
I agree 100%.

Many Vol fans and the national media are evaluating Butch by the standards of our late 1990s success. He's a "failure" because he hasn't won an SEC Championship or gone 10-2 in his four seasons.

Yet, realistically speaking, Butch has had a grand total of TWO seasons where he was competitive talent-wise in the SEC. His record in those two seasons is 18-8. It's not spectacular, but it's also well above-average.

The 2013 and 2014 teams would not have fared well regardless of coach. The 2013 team was devoid of talent in the skilled positions and had no depth on defense. The 2014 team had one of the weakest O-lines in UT history; and also an extreme lack of depth; and all of this was a result of Dooley's incompetence. Not even Nick Saban could've made the '13 and '14 teams competitive in the SEC. Yet the Butch naysayers constantly cite losses from those two years as proof that Butch is terrible.

To evaluate Butch, you have to consider where we were in 2012 and what the blueprint should have been to succeed. In two short years, he restocked the roster and had us competitive talent-wise in the SEC. He's had some of the most difficult schedules in the nation and has held up OK.

The frustrating part is that Butch has made us very good again, but not great. 9-4 is not awful, but we should've never lost to South Carolina and Vandy last season. However, our defense was decimated by injuries, and that obviously impacted us at the end of the season. Nevertheless, coaching and conditioning were at least part of the problem. Butch has attempted to address those issues in the offseason.

I've said this all along: I don't know if Butch will take us to the Promised Land, but he's done enough to earn another couple of seasons. He has a lot of similarties with Dabo Swinney, who also had some early struggles, before tweaking his coaching staff in Year 4 and Year 5. Now Dabo has a national championship.

Butch is a good coach. The only question is whether he's a great coach and that's yet to be answered.
 
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#12
#12
no issue with the tenor of it, and i for one am glad there's at least something coming out with the other side of the coin being reflected. for the most part, it's well thought out, and regarding the facts shared, always good to see and read about the good that most of us know he's done.

that said, the notion that he has no idea why he has the perception he has, means he's either ignoring some fairly blatant bungles on CBJ's part, or he's not paid attention. he also might want to check the latest on recruiting in the state of TN, relative to what it's been historically.

and DB wasn't the 25th overall player taken...14th.

in the end, i'm glad someone is at least willing to throw the notion out there that maybe he's not a complete laughing stock of a coach.

we wait and see.
 
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#14
#14
golfballs said:
Making the case for Butch Jones being underrated at Tennessee

Discuss
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The article is accurate in my opinion if you look at where we are at now vs where we were when Butch arrived. TN would be making a BIG mistake to push him out anytime soon.

From the article: ..."OK, we will. In four years, Jones has delivered the first three-game bowl winning streak since the Manning years. There have been the first back-to-back final top 25 finishes in 10 years."

I DO NOT want to repeat the Lane Kiffin or Derek Dooley experiments. We have a very good coach doing a very good job all things considered.

GO VOLS!!!
 
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#16
#16
BeardedVol said:
So did several other schools.

Still doesn't have any bearing on whether or not Butch is 'underrated'.
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one doesn't = the other

it's no different that using Saban's track record of sending kids to the NFL as a reference point of success, and why they're able to sustain success. now there's precedents taking place at TN under CBJ in that department too.

he no longer has to say "you can get to the NFL here, i promise", he can point to 6 draft picks and however many ufa's on NFL rosters and say "we do get kids to the NFL".

how you took that to mean what you thought it means...not sure.
 
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#17
#17
Butch has proven he isn't great but he's not in the bottom 20 percent of Power 5 coaches either. Only 12 coaches have won 9 or more games the past 2 years at Power 5 schools. Butch is one of them.
 
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#18
#18
Why do people keep talking about UT fans wanting/expecting to win the SEC? IDT that's the standard many UT fans expect at all. IMO, UT fans have lowered expectations significantly. Almost any UT fan would be thrilled to win the SECE and make it to the SECCG. Even taking a L in ATL would be a step forward.
 
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#19
#19
LA Vol said:
Why do people keep talking about UT fans wanting/expecting to win the SEC? IDT that's the standard many UT fans expect at all. IMO, UT fans have lowered expectations significantly. Almost any UT fan would be thrilled to win the SECE and make it to the SECCG. Even taking a L in ATL would be a step forward.
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agreed. i meant to mention that in my post as well.

just get to ATL....i don't get this notion that all of vol nation is clamoring for an SEC title or bust type expectation for this coach....in this version of the SECE and SECW.
 
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#20
#20
jakez4ut said:
one doesn't = the other

it's no different that using Saban's track record of sending kids to the NFL as a reference point of success, and why they're able to sustain success. now there's precedents taking place at TN under CBJ in that department too.

he no longer has to say "you can get to the NFL here, i promise", he can point to 6 draft picks and however many ufa's on NFL rosters and say "we do get kids to the NFL".

how you took that to mean what you thought it means...not sure.
Click to expand...

If sending kids to the NFL is now the prime indicator of HC coaching ability, then based off of the 2017 draft, Al Golden, Will Muschamp, and Kyle Whittingham are even more underrated than CBJ.
 
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#21
#21
BeardedVol said:
If sending kids to the NFL is now the prime indicator of HC coaching ability, then based off of the 2016 draft, Al Golden, Will Muschamp, and Kyle Whittingham are even more underrated than CBJ.
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not what the article, or i, said. just that it was a point of success you can reference. nothing more, nothing less.

for a program that hadn't sent anyone to the NFL in the previous 2 seasons, and that that was a point of negative recruiting against us, and used as a criticism of CBJ, yes, it's important to have that feather in your cap now. it's not, nor it should be, the only feather though.
 
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#22
#22
Decent points. Just a different spin on the same facts. Butch has done some good things, but has not yet turned the corner to prove he belongs long term. It's still "prove it" time the next two years.
 
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#24
#24
Butch is neither overrated or underrated. I would argue that he did a good job with this program until last year specifically. In 2016 this team underachieved by any measure; not even sure how that is debatable. If the record alone doesn't convince you of that, how Alvin Kamara was used by the coaching staff during his Tennessee career should.

So that's 3 years to rebuild the program, which he achieved, followed by a disappointing year when they had some real expectations. Not sure how Dodd spins "underrated" out of that. The NFL draft picks he cites (even going back to his Central Michigan days) are impressive, but not ultimately what a college coach is judged on.

The best thing Butch has going for his job security right now is his buyout and the University's ability (or lack thereof) to reasonably afford said buyout. Not exactly the greatest position to be in.
 
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#25
#25
05_never_again said:
Butch is neither overrated or underrated. I would argue that he did a good job with this program until last year specifically. In 2016 this team underachieved by any measure; not even sure how that is debatable.

So that's 3 years to rebuild the program, which he achieved, followed by a disappointing year when they had some real expectations. Not sure how Dodd spins "underrated" out of that. The NFL draft picks he cites (even going back to his Central Michigan days) are impressive, but not ultimately what a college coach is judged on.

The best thing Butch has going for his job security right now is his buyout and the University's ability (or lack thereof) to reasonably afford said buyout. Not exactly the greatest position to be in.
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well, he referenced the ranking of coaches, and CBJ being 52nd on that list....and then gave however many of his own lists showing CBJ's accomplishments relative to some of his contemporaries....and posed the question.

that, and the fact CBJ is generally considered more of a clown than head coach on social media.....:eek:lol:
 
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