Difference between Kiffin and Dooley

#102
#102
Vercingetorix said:
The best way to evaluate Kiffin's "left the program better than I found it" statement is to see what the free market actually said about it. When Kiffin was hired, the Tennessee job was still considered attractive enough that Hamilton apparently had several credible candidates, and ended up hiring a coach with NFL experience. When he left, roster attrition and the timing of it meant that Tennessee could no longer interest the same quality of coaches, and had to settle for a guy out of the WAC with a losing record. If Kiffin had really left the program in meaningfully better shape than it was in when he was hired, somebody with a decent resume would have wanted the job.
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Did he specifically say "program" or "team"? I really can't remember. If he was talking talent level I'm sure he felt he upgraded it. Regardless, it was more than likely random coachspeak BS that he'd have said no matter what was actually true.
 
#103
#103
I hate Lane Kiffin. White-hot, burning hatred.

But...every time I watch Tyler Bray I hate Kiffin just a little less. Not much. Just a little.
 
#104
#104
kptvol said:
Everyone was an exaggeration, but the overwhelming sentiment on VN was a positive feeling about the 2009 season.
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I think most people on here felt about the 2009 season about the same that they have come to feel about 2010: a generally positive stepping stone towards (hopefully) better days ahead. Each season is an INC by itself. Since the Kiffin payoff was a negative, people go back and reevaluate the whole process in that light. The same thing will happen with 2010. If Dooley ends up being successful, Vol fans will talk glowingly about how he kept a terrible roster together through adversity and overachieved by getting them to a bowl game in his first season. If Dooley ends up being a failure, all Vol fans will remember about this year is 13 men on the field, second-half collapses, and shower discipline.
 
#105
#105
Vercingetorix said:
I think most people on here felt about the 2009 season about the same that they have come to feel about 2010: a generally positive stepping stone towards (hopefully) better days ahead. Each season is an INC by itself. Since the Kiffin payoff was a negative, people go back and reevaluate the whole process in that light. The same thing will happen with 2010. If Dooley ends up being successful, Vol fans will talk glowingly about how he kept a terrible roster together through adversity and overachieved by getting them to a bowl game in his first season. If Dooley ends up being a failure, all Vol fans will remember about this year is 13 men on the field, second-half collapses, and shower discipline.
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Very well said. :good!:
And true.

Not going to lie, I was super excited about Kiffin, and he did a good job. I don't like how he left, but life goes on. Now I like Dooley and will give him the same benefit of the doubt I gave Kiffin.
 
#106
#106
SGMVols said:
The day he becomes USC's coach, it becomes his job to recruit players to USC. If that involves recruiting players he recruited to UT, so be it.

If UT hired Nick Saban, wouldn't you want him to try to bring his Alabama recruits with him?
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If you think conducting one's business in that manner is fine, so be it. What goes around comes around.
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#107
#107
SGMVols said:
The day he becomes USC's coach, it becomes his job to recruit players to USC. If that involves recruiting players he recruited to UT, so be it.

If UT hired Nick Saban, wouldn't you want him to try to bring his Alabama recruits with him?
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And to your question, no, I would be embarrassed for a representative of my University to act in that manner. Even if we benefited by the detriment of our fiercest rivals. It's just plain ****ty and would bring is down to his level. Thank God he saved that shred of indecency until he was no longer our coach.
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#108
#108
I just look at the number of highly rated players Kiffin has on his squad right now....read the record at USC...and thank the football gods he's GONE.
 
#109
#109
Volfan8282 said:
Yeah, but he couldn't control when the job came open. Just like Dooley couldn't control when the UT job came open. I do agree on the attempts to get players. I would like to know what all Orgeron told them. If he was explaining their options, then I don't really find fault in that. Right or wrong, kids commit to coaching staffs rather than schools sometimes.
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I'm fine with kids committing to coaches rather than university's, it's their choice.

We are comparing Dooley and Kiffin. Kiffin has shown his true colors. Dooley has proven week after week that he is committed to building this program up without smoke and mirrors, shooting off his mouth, and respecting where he is and who got him there. USC can have Kiffin and I will enjoy watching him ride that program into the sewer.
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#110
#110
Volfan8282 said:
Yeah, but he couldn't control when the job came open. Just like Dooley couldn't control when the UT job came open. I do agree on the attempts to get players. I would like to know what all Orgeron told them. If he was explaining their options, then I don't really find fault in that. Right or wrong, kids commit to coaching staffs rather than schools sometimes.
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I'm fine with kids committing to coaches rather than university's, it's their choice.

We are comparing Dooley and Kiffin. Kiffin has shown his true colors. Dooley has proven week after week that he is committed to building this program up without smoke and mirrors, shooting off his mouth, and respecting where he is and who got him there. USC can have Kiffin and I will enjoy watching him ride that program into the sewer.
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#111
#111
SGMVols said:
The day he becomes USC's coach, it becomes his job to recruit players to USC. If that involves recruiting players he recruited to UT, so be it.

If UT hired Nick Saban, wouldn't you want him to try to bring his Alabama recruits with him?
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I had no problem with him trying to bring his recruits with him. But he crossed a line when he tried to persuade guys who were already enrolled at UT and who had already moved into the dorm to skip classes and go home.
 
#112
#112
General Jack said:
I'm fine with kids committing to coaches rather than university's, it's their choice.

We are comparing Dooley and Kiffin. Kiffin has shown his true colors. Dooley has proven week after week that he is committed to building this program up without smoke and mirrors, shooting off his mouth, and respecting where he is and who got him there. USC can have Kiffin and I will enjoy watching him ride that program into the sewer.
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Well, that's the difference. I never had a problem with Kiffin leaving. I had a problem with the way he left but not the act itself. Kiffin is a mercenary like most of the top coaches in sports. They both left within 2 weeks of NSD, and I don't blame either of them.

Don't misunderstand me. I respect Dooley and like him as a person. But, ultimately, some of the biggest pricks that walk this earth are also some of the best coaches that walk this earth. College football has turned into a business, and, like in business, some of the slimiest people you know are the ones making the big bucks. It's the same in college football now, and that's why Kiffin's demeanor and attitude never bothered me. That's also the reason why I don't bank anything on the fact that Dooley seems like a stand up guy.
 
#113
#113
Lexvol said:
I'll say this one more time, and I'll never say it again. When Kiffin was hired, it was the 2010 schedule that I took a look at. Absolutely brutal.....I will go to my grave knowing that Kiffin didn't want to play our 2010 schedule with the talent he had coming back. Flame away, but this year was going to be rock bottom no matter who was coaching the team.

Maybe it is a blessing he was gone. Kiff was a master recruiter, but his second 6-6 season in a row may have cost him some momentum. I'm not saying it would, but it is certainly a possibility.
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Kiffin wouldn't have gone 6-6 with this team.

He went 7-6 last year at UT with a lot more talent than what we just went 6-6 with. This year, he's 7-5 at USC with more talent than everyone he's played except Oregon.

If he was still here, we wouldn't be going bowling.
 
#114
#114
jsc1973 said:
Kiffin wouldn't have gone 6-6 with this team.

He went 7-6 last year at UT with a lot more talent than what we just went 6-6 with. This year, he's 7-5 at USC with more talent than everyone he's played except Oregon.

If he was still here, we wouldn't be going bowling.
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There are a lot of coaches that would've gone 6-6 with the way the schedule set up for us this year, including Kiffin. You also can't base much on what's happened out at USC. It may seem like a cop out, but he's in an impossible situation out there. Talented? Sure. But they have zero will ... especially on defense. Their offense has been fine for the most part.
 
#115
#115
Volfan8282 said:
There are a lot of coaches that would've gone 6-6 with the way the schedule set up for us this year, including Kiffin. You also can't base much on what's happened out at USC. It may seem like a cop out, but he's in an impossible situation out there. Talented? Sure. But they have zero will ... especially on defense. Their offense has been fine for the most part.
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Your infatuation with Kiffin is a little on the weird side. Impossible situation??? I sure wish Dooley had that impossible situation of a team loaded with 5* talent... Kiffin could lay a turd and you would try to convince us its a golden nugget...

And their zero will... Especially on D??? Maybe that has something to do with the fact that the walking zombie, Monte ain't cut out for the college game.

Lane sucks... Al Davis sure was right about him...

Thank You Pete Carrol for bolting for the NFL. Thanks to the 4 or 5 guys that turned down USC.
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#116
#116
Vercingetorix said:
I think most people on here felt about the 2009 season about the same that they have come to feel about 2010: a generally positive stepping stone towards (hopefully) better days ahead. Each season is an INC by itself. Since the Kiffin payoff was a negative, people go back and reevaluate the whole process in that light. The same thing will happen with 2010. If Dooley ends up being successful, Vol fans will talk glowingly about how he kept a terrible roster together through adversity and overachieved by getting them to a bowl game in his first season. If Dooley ends up being a failure, all Vol fans will remember about this year is 13 men on the field, second-half collapses, and shower discipline.
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Great post
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#117
#117
Vercingetorix said:
I think most people on here felt about the 2009 season about the same that they have come to feel about 2010: a generally positive stepping stone towards (hopefully) better days ahead. Each season is an INC by itself. Since the Kiffin payoff was a negative, people go back and reevaluate the whole process in that light. The same thing will happen with 2010. If Dooley ends up being successful, Vol fans will talk glowingly about how he kept a terrible roster together through adversity and overachieved by getting them to a bowl game in his first season. If Dooley ends up being a failure, all Vol fans will remember about this year is 13 men on the field, second-half collapses, and shower discipline.
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And "Where's Rommel?"

Great post. Although I think the feelings surrounding 2009 had more to do with something new than something good. People just wanted something different and were high on Kiffin for that reason - and I use the word "high" deliberately. There was nothing else to be excited about during Kiffin's tenure except the onside kick recovery against Alabama - that is, until Kiffin seized defeat from the jaws of victory.
 
#119
#119
BoseefusTheVol said:
Your infatuation with Kiffin is a little on the weird side. Impossible situation??? I sure wish Dooley had that impossible situation of a team loaded with 5* talent... Kiffin could lay a turd and you would try to convince us its a golden nugget...

And their zero will... Especially on D??? Maybe that has something to do with the fact that the walking zombie, Monte ain't cut out for the college game.

Lane sucks... Al Davis sure was right about him...

Thank You Pete Carrol for bolting for the NFL. Thanks to the 4 or 5 guys that turned down USC.
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I have no connection to Kiffin. I don't care what or how he does out in California. But, it doesn't take a genius to understand that he's in an impossible situation out there. That isn't my opinion. It's the truth of the matter. I don't feel sorry for Kiffin. He's the one that wanted to go out there (albeit before the sanctions hit).

The fact that you don't understand how energy and willpower affect defense in particular speaks volumes for your knowledge of football. Their offense has been fine aside from the last 2 weeks when Barkley went out. You take the will out of a football team, and the first thing to go will be the defense. Voila... that's where they blow this year. They have zilch to play for, and it's glaring on that side of the ball.

And, Al Davis is a complete moron. If he had left Kiffin alone, they would've been fine under him as the HC. Davis is like a lot of owners... they think they know the sport of the team that they own b/c they have a lot of money or just lucked into owning the team. Prime example: Davis wanted Russell, Kiffin didn't.
 
#120
#120
Volfan8282 said:
Well, that's the difference. I never had a problem with Kiffin leaving. I had a problem with the way he left but not the act itself. Kiffin is a mercenary like most of the top coaches in sports. They both left within 2 weeks of NSD, and I don't blame either of them.

Don't misunderstand me. I respect Dooley and like him as a person. But, ultimately, some of the biggest pricks that walk this earth are also some of the best coaches that walk this earth. College football has turned into a business, and, like in business, some of the slimiest people you know are the ones making the big bucks. It's the same in college football now, and that's why Kiffin's demeanor and attitude never bothered me. That's also the reason why I don't bank anything on the fact that Dooley seems like a stand up guy.
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Actually, that's what we agree on.
 
#123
#123
General Jack said:
Actually, that's what we agree on.
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Well, then I guess we disagree on which actions we're upset about during the time he left. I thought if he was going to do a press conference, then he needed to man up and answer questions and do it right. What he did made the situation worse (again, not that it ultimately mattered in the end). You probably agree with that.

I'm still unsure as to what Kiffin/Orgeron officially told the players. There's an obvious line there between telling players their options and that they'd welcome them at USC versus trying to get enrolled players to go out to USC (not even sure if that's possible given NCAA rules). I don't have a problem really with the former. I also didn't have a problem at all with it being so close to NSD. It sucked for us, but I don't blame his decision.
 
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#124
#124
utvolpj said:
don't think I'd go quite that far
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Unless they're in a spot where they're happy (Tressel), then most of the top coaches would move if the money was right. Meyer, Kelly, Saban, and Spurrier either still are or have been that way in their careers. Most coaches are looking out for themselves in terms of money and opportunity... not that there's anything wrong with that necessarily.
 
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