Defending Fulmer

#227
#227
tvolsfan said:
I'd say so, assuming the sanctions won't be too bad.

The only question for me is if we could have gotten a better coach holding Fulmer one more year.

If Dooley turns out to be the guy, then I certainly think hiring Kiffin was better than another year of Fulmer.
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The UT job was a better job for potential replacements when Fulmer left than it was when Kiffin left.
 
#228
#228
UT IE 95 said:
The UT job was a better job for potential replacements when Fulmer left than it was when Kiffin left.
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That's primarily because Phil's last half decent class had one year left when Kiffin took over. The problem with hiring a coach was the timeframe, not that no one wanted to be at UT.
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#229
#229
kptvol said:
I'd feel pretty damn good about our odds of going 8-4 with that murderer's row we played in 2008.
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The 08 season was just an awful football year. UT was having a tough time, we were getting gang-raped by UF, Clemson, and Iowa.

Fyi, SC had their first practice tonight. Nothing of note to report, except that Alshon Jeffery was held out because of a minor whiplash injury from a wreck he was in today. He should be back soon, though, maybe tomorrow. Forgive my hijacking of the thread. Carry on.
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#230
#230
DarthVisor said:
The 08 season was just an awful football year. UT was having a tough time, we were getting gang-raped by UF, Clemson, and Iowa.

Fyi, SC had their first practice tonight. Nothing of note to report, except that Alshon Jeffery was held out because of a minor whiplash injury from a wreck he was in today. He should be back soon, though, maybe tomorrow. Forgive my hijacking of the thread. Carry on.
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I will relay it to the Gamecock fans
 
#235
#235
VKAman said:
This sentence needs to be underlined and stickied for the revisionists.
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Yes, we would now be welcoming the death penalty instead of the wrist slap. :crazy:

In addition, we would be suffering through the worst attrition and biggest bust of a recruiting class in the last 60 years of SEC football (Fulmer and Dooley recruits contribute).

Finally, the departure of Kiffin should have been anticipated by any AD with three working grey cells.

Furthermore, we would have won more games with Fulmer at the helm than Kiffin (and Dooley) at this stage.

I like Dooley despite him being the poster boy of the bourgeoisie. He's my coach, and I hope he can get it done.
 
#236
#236
utgibbs said:
Yes, we would now be welcoming the death penalty instead of the wrist slap. :crazy:

In addition, we would be suffering through the worst attrition and biggest bust of a recruiting class in the last 60 years of SEC football (Fulmer and Dooley recruits contribute).

Finally, the departure of Kiffin should have been anticipated by any AD with three working grey cells.

Furthermore, we would have won more games with Fulmer at the helm than Kiffin (and Dooley) at this stage.

I like Dooley despite him being the poster boy of the bourgeoisie. He's my coach, and I hope he can get it done.
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1. Kiffin's recruits haven't and aren't contributing? Do Bray, Jackson, James, Miller, Smith, Teague, and King not ring a bell? There have certainly been some busts and some that left/didn't pan out due to Kiffin leaving, but to say that none contribute is simply asinine.

2. How was Kiffin's departure supposed to be anticipated? He wasn't going to leave at least in the next 5 years aside from an NFL job or the USC job opening up. He may not have been a cultural fit in TN, but he knew that this was a high profile job. USC was the only other college job that I think he would've left for, and no one could've predicted the Pete Carroll situation to have unfolded like that.

3. How can you possibly claim that we would've won more games with Fulmer at the helm when he just had come off of a 5-7 season in 2008 with a team that was arguably much more talented and deep than the team that Kiffin inherited in 2009 for which Kiffin went 7-6?
 
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#237
#237
kptvol said:
Class was sixth when he left with a ton of highly rated guys ready to round it out. Dooley just hauled in a really good one, too. If you look back at Phil's 2009 class his most highly rated guys were almost all total busts. The class prior to that was just plain not good.
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CPF's class was top ten when he was fired, and i'm sure that, like kiffy, he was ready to round it out. woulda shoulda coulda.

instead of what might have been, let's look at the one class that kiffy actually landed. it was ranked what, 9th at the time? rivals now calls it the overall worst NCAA class of the last decade.

CPF's 05 and 07 classes were ranked 4th and 3rd, and we see how that turned out.

star rankings and hype don't always equate with success.

kiffy's biggest strength was supposed to be recruiting. at UT it turned into the decade's biggest bust.

kiffy's biggest strength turned out to be marketing himself. i will concede that he is very, very good at it. otherwise he sucks.
 
#238
#238
tm3 said:
CPF's class was top ten when he was fired, and i'm sure that, like kiffy, he was ready to round it out. woulda shoulda coulda.

instead of what might have been, let's look at the one class that kiffy actually landed. it was ranked what, 9th at the time? rivals now calls it the overall worst NCAA class of the last decade.

CPF's 05 and 07 classes were ranked 4th and 3rd, and we see how that turned out.

star rankings and hype don't always equate with success.

kiffy's biggest strength was supposed to be recruiting. at UT it turned into the decade's biggest bust.

kiffy's biggest strength turned out to be marketing himself. i will concede that he is very, very good at it. otherwise he sucks.
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How did CLK do with that trainwreck that CPF managed five wins with in 08?
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#239
#239
tm3 said:
CPF's class was top ten when he was fired, and i'm sure that, like kiffy, he was ready to round it out. woulda shoulda coulda.

instead of what might have been, let's look at the one class that kiffy actually landed. it was ranked what, 9th at the time? rivals now calls it the overall worst NCAA class of the last decade.

CPF's 05 and 07 classes were ranked 4th and 3rd, and we see how that turned out.

star rankings and hype don't always equate with success.

kiffy's biggest strength was supposed to be recruiting. at UT it turned into the decade's biggest bust.

kiffy's biggest strength turned out to be marketing himself. i will concede that he is very, very good at it. otherwise he sucks.
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You are comparing three classes that Phil spent years assembling to one class that Kiffin spent two months slapping together. That doesn't work. And no, the 2009 class wasn't UT's biggest bust. 2007 was worse.
 
#243
#243
Who cares about his arrival or departure? I'm pissed about what went down in the 12 months between. He represented UT with his dufus dullard mental capacity in the media. He rekindled thug-u and clearly authorized crossing the line in recruiting. After the cupcake opener he had his first home test of the season and got out coached by Rick Neuheisel of all people.

The only good part of Kiffin's employment in Knoxville was the departure. Otherwise, he took a team spiraling out of control and drove it in the ground.
 
#245
#245
kptvol said:
You are comparing three classes that Phil spent years assembling to one class that Kiffin spent two months slapping together. That doesn't work.
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let kiffy's hypothetical top 5 class of 09 be the focal point.

there is no evidence that it would have been any better than CPF's hypothetical top 5 class of 08, or actual top 5 classes of 05 and 07. the acid test is how the class actually plays out, not how it was ranked on signing day (see 05 and 07) or in this case how it might have been ranked on signing day.

and based on what kiffy has done at SC with top 5 talent (he lost what, 5 games last year?) his recruiting is likely moot anyway. 2007-2010 SC's classes were ranked 2, 8, 4 and 1.

saying that if kiffy had stayed he would have made us champs makes about as much sense as gibbs saying the same about CPF.
 
#246
#246
cotton said:
That's why I commented on it, not to dispute it but to try to clarify for those that don't want to understand.
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By clarify, of course you mean, repeat a nonsense so many times those without sense will mistake it for reality.

Those with sense will always know the real world outside the back door vs the fantasy that Kiffin's arrival not only presaged the nature of his departure, but without said departure we would be in even worse shape than we are now!

Unfortunately (for you and your delusions), we would be in better shape right now with Fulmer still here. That is simply reality.

Dooley's metrics for success, in my eyes, are lower than your own. He will really have to get after it to reach the Fulmer Standard let alone surpass it. I wish him all the luck to achieve it.

Go Vols!
 
#247
#247
tm3 said:
let kiffy's hypothetical top 5 class of 09 be the focal point.

there is no evidence that it would have been any better than CPF's hypothetical top 5 class of 08, or actual top 5 classes of 05 and 07. the acid test is how the class actually plays out, not how it was ranked on signing day (see 05 and 07) or in this case how it might have been ranked on signing day.

and based on what kiffy has done at SC with top 5 talent (he lost what, 5 games last year?) his recruiting is likely moot anyway. 2007-2010 SC's classes were ranked 2, 8, 4 and 1.

saying that if kiffy had stayed he would have made us champs makes about as much sense as gibbs saying the same about CPF.
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Except CPF had done it before.

In addition, CPF had us in the SECCG every three years. That is my metric for success. Others expect the new coach to do better.

Good luck CDD!

Kiffin has rightly been judged as the worst football hire in 60 years. His classes are rightly ranked as some of the greatest busts of all time (and that's being generous and giving him the EEs). He took the most talented team in the nation to five losses and one of their worst seasons ever. If he had not departed the Tennessee football program would be on level terms with the basketball program.

To defend this man against Phil Fulmer is not only treason, its just plain stupid.
 
#249
#249
utvolpj said:
a decade without a title? Awesome
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If we catch a break in two of those games, it goes our way. It sucks that it didn't, but such were the noughties.

Instead, we chose the Hambone Experiment, and some Jason Bourne style driving in reverse.
 
#250
#250
utgibbs said:
If we catch a break in two of those games, it goes our way. It sucks that it didn't, but such were the noughties.

Instead, we chose the Hambone Experiment, and some Jason Bourne style driving in reverse.
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if you check the tapes you'll see it was a perfect storm of magic dust
 
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