Defending Fulmer

#176
#176
kptvol said:
Evidently posting correct stats confirms your age. What does it mean when Vegas routinely posts figures that are without fail proven to be inaccurate? What about when you discuss how awesome the win % of the 2000s was vs. the 70s? What's it mean when you say LSU won the NC in 2002?
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Not surprising he thinks an 8 win regular season in 2012 would be a good coaching job.
 
#177
#177
kptvol said:
Some choose to believe that a top 10 national program was trashed in 12 months, but the guy running the ship for 16 years prior to that had nothing to do with the decline. If that's your stance, have at it.
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Some choose to believe that a declining but savable program was taken and driven 6 ft underground in 12 months. If your stance is to place all the blame on the first guy and continue to loyally defend the second, have at it.
 
#178
#178
UT IE 95 said:
Some choose to believe that a declining but savable program was taken and driven 6 ft underground in 12 months. If your stance is to place all the blame on the first guy and continue to loyally defend the second, have at it.
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Kiffin certainly hurt Tennessee by leaving, but Tennessee was long past the point of 'declining' when Kiffin arrived.


If we kept Fulmer another year and then hired Dooley, we would probably be shooting for 5-7 this year.
 
#179
#179
It baffles me that anyone can defend Fulmer with the record he had against upper level coaches in the SEC. 10-23-1 is the stat for anyone who is wondering.
 
#180
#180
Volfan8282 said:
It baffles me that anyone can defend Fulmer with the record he had against upper level coaches in the SEC. 10-23-1 is the stat for anyone who is wondering.
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It baffles me that many on Volnation continue to beat the sh*^ out of the only coach in most of not all of our lifetimes to win a National Championship.
 
#181
#181
Big Orange 1 said:
It baffles me that many on Volnation continue to beat the sh*^ out of the only coach in most of not all of our lifetimes to win a National Championship.
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It also baffles me that when you lay out the facts for some people, it turns into continuing "to beat the sh*^" out of Fulmer. You can't defend 10-23-1. They're just the facts.
 
#182
#182
UT IE 95 said:
Some choose to believe that a declining but savable program was taken and driven 6 ft underground in 12 months. If your stance is to place all the blame on the first guy and continue to loyally defend the second, have at it.
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I suppose barely losing to Wyoming is a step up from barely losing to eventual NC Alabama. Yep, really got driven into the ground. Probably never make another bowl game.
 
#183
#183
Big Orange 1 said:
It baffles me that many on Volnation continue to beat the sh*^ out of the only coach in most of not all of our lifetimes to win a National Championship.
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No one would care to discuss Fulmer if there weren't still lunatics claiming he should be coach for life and the program shut down upon his death.
 
#184
#184
kptvol said:
No one would care to discuss Fulmer if there weren't still lunatics claiming he should be coach for life and the program shut down upon his death.
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Did someone say you lay no blame on kiffin for our current state? Surely not accurate.
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#185
#185
pl3 said:
Did someone say you lay no blame on kiffin for our current state? Surely not accurate.
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I've laid plenty of blame at Kiffin's feet the last year or so. His biggest problems were leaving before he had a chance to make much of a positive impact and leaving at a horrific time for replacement search and recruiting. That sucked, but I don't think it ruined us nearly as bad as years upon years of half-assed player evaluation, staff evaluation, and practice structure or a resistance to change so severe that only the threat of termination could bring about staff turnover.
 
#186
#186
kptvol said:
I suppose barely losing to Wyoming is a step up from barely losing to eventual NC Alabama. Yep, really got driven into the ground. Probably never make another bowl game.
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Your continued defense of Kiffin is baffling. You just can't accept that he totally shat on everything UT and put a stake in the heart of a bleeding program.
 
#187
#187
UT IE 95 said:
Your continued defense of Kiffin is baffling. You just can't accept that he totally shat on everything UT and put a stake in the heart of a bleeding program.
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Kiffin exacerbated a huge problem, he didnt cause it.
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#189
#189
kptvol said:
I've laid plenty of blame at Kiffin's feet the last year or so. His biggest problems were leaving before he had a chance to make much of a positive impact and leaving at a horrific time for replacement search and recruiting. That sucked, but I don't think it ruined us nearly as bad as years upon years of half-assed player evaluation, staff evaluation, and practice structure or a resistance to change so severe that only the threat of termination could bring about staff turnover.
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I'd also say that his lack of recruiting the trenches in his one year didn't help any, and the players were running around like they were untouchable, including in Atlanta in the week leading up to the bowl.
Ship was sinking for years, and a last second sabateur reared its head to make it worse.
 
#190
#190
UT IE 95 said:
Your continued defense of Kiffin is baffling. You just can't accept that he totally shat on everything UT and put a stake in the heart of a bleeding program.
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Kiffin does that to Florida, UGA, or LSU and they'll be rebuilt in one season. Any clue why the job isn't so simple here?
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#192
#192
pl3 said:
I'd also say that his lack of recruiting the trenches in his one year didn't help any, and the players were running around like they were untouchable, including in Atlanta in the week leading up to the bowl.
Ship was sinking for years, and a last second sabateur reared its head to make it worse.
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He actually recruited the hell out of the trenches. Very few remained committed or interested when he left.
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#193
#193
cotton said:
Actually, I believe it was Kiffin's abrupt departure that exacerbated the problem, not his presence.
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That was the point. His departure, rather than his arrival, was the issue.
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#195
#195
zjcvols said:
Winning % with Fulmer's last four years: 29-21 (58%)

Winning % last two years: 13-13 (50%)

Let's just make a guess and say we go 8-4 the next two years, not unreasonable at all.

That makes it 29-21. 58%.

I bet Gibbs and Vegas would want Dooley gone if he went 8-4 in his 4th year.
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I'll bet you any amount of money we don't go 8-4 the next two years
 
#196
#196
kptvol said:
Kiffin does that to Florida, UGA, or LSU and they'll be rebuilt in one season. Any clue why the job isn't so simple here?
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UF and LSU are talent rich despite the coaching. Kiffin could do significant damage with a UT-esque performance in one year at UGA. He's going to have USC at the middle of the pack if doesn't get fired first.
 
#197
#197
UT IE 95 said:
UF and LSU are talent rich despite the coaching. Kiffin could do significant damage with a UT-esque performance in one year at UGA. He's going to have USC at the middle of the pack if doesn't get fired first.
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You got it. USC will rise to the top with another coach. NCAA sanctions be damned.

The rest of your post is ridiculous.
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#199
#199
kptvol said:
Compared to hiring Dooley a year earlier? Yes. Compared to retaining Phil another season? No.
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Are you claiming the program is better for hiring Kiffin than if Fulmer had stayed one more year?
 
#200
#200
UT IE 95 said:
Are you claiming the program is better for hiring Kiffin than if Fulmer had stayed one more year?
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That's a really good question, and in all honesty....

About the same. Cause we at least got two top ten classes. One with Kiffin, one with Dooley. Sure, they lack the linemen, but look at our skill positions (other than linebacker) and I would say they all have good SEC talent.

I can't imagine Fulmer would have pulled two straight top ten classes, and win 9-10 games in 2009.

All it did was push back the rebuilding job to a year. So, even if we fired Fulmer after 2009, we would still have to rebuild in the same amount of time.
 
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