Defending Fulmer

#251
#251
utgibbs said:
Except CPF had done it before.
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while i don't agree overall with you on CPF, i will concede this point.

your man has done it before and is 150-52 lifetime.

kiffy still has a losing record as HC.
 
#252
#252
WiseOlVol said:
Yesterday I posted some history about the Vols' football program and posited that we should be embarrassed about where we are.

Some were grateful for the education. Some expressed disdain about my question: Who fires a coach whose record vs. Alabama is 10-5-1?

One fan observed that the post-2004 trajectory of Fulmer's success (failure) warranted the firing. Fair enough. Two losing (no-bowl) seasons in 4 is unacceptable at Tennessee (even with a SEC-E title in '07). Others said UT should have let the coach go after 2005's 5-6 season.

[Should Alabama have fired the Bear after going 6-5 and 6-5-1 in '69 and '70?]

I am pro-DD and my posts reflect it. This kid's got it and is the right guy for the job.

The point of my question (Who fires a coach...?) was not that it wasn't time for Phil to go, but to illustrate the height of this program's expectations. [Apparently, Phil made some so angry that any mention of him sends them off the deep end.]

Ironically, in the end, it is probable that Fulmer was fired not for 2005-2008, but for failing to win more championships when the Vols were winning 119 games in the 12 years from 1993 to 2004. Nasty business this.

Let the spewing commence.
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Phil's program was well in decline prior to 2005, it's just that the rot that had set in finally caused the program to obviously buckle in 2005. By 2005 he was well past his shelf life. This is just fact. You can appreciate what he did his first 10 years and still objectively conclude that he was done and there was no turning around by 2005. 2006-2008 were wasted years that just made the inevitable rebuild that much tougher and the return of Cut added zero lasting value.
 
#253
#253
UT IE 95 said:
After the cupcake opener he had his first home test of the season and got out coached by Rick Neuheisel of all people.
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Like Fulmer did the previous year?


The only good part of Kiffin's employment in Knoxville was the departure. Otherwise, he took a team spiraling out of control and drove it in the ground.
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No, Kiffin took a train wreck, improved it, and then things got worse when he left. But Dooley inherited a much better situation than he would have if Fulmer was there another year.
 
#254
#254
tvolsfan said:
Like Fulmer did the previous year?



No, Kiffin took a train wreck, improved it, and then things got worse when he left. But Dooley inherited a much better situation than he would have if Fulmer was there another year.
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Boss, boss! De plane! De plane!

Keep the fantasies coming.
 
#255
#255
tm3 said:
kiffy still has a losing record as HC.
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Because every place he has coached was a train wreck before he arrived. Oakland only gave him a season and a half for crying out loud. Vince Lombardi couldn't have fixed that mess of a team in that short period of time.
 
#256
#256
tvolsfan said:
Like Fulmer did the previous year?.
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I'm clearly on record as posted on Volnation after I returned from LA that Labor Day weekend that Fulmer was done. Losing to UCLA was the last straw. Losing to a worse UCLA team at home the following year was atrocious.


tvolsfan said:
No, Kiffin took a train wreck, improved it, and then things got worse when he left. But Dooley inherited a much better situation than he would have if Fulmer was there another year.
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We'll just disagree on that. Kiffin did not improve the team or any aspect of the team during or after his brief tenure here. Dooley inherited a disaster that was all Kiffin's doing. Dooley had to teach the team how to properly shower for crying out loud.
 
#257
#257
utgibbs said:
Except CPF had done it before.

In addition, CPF had us in the SECCG every three years. That is my metric for success. Others expect the new coach to do better.
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CPF has never turned anything around without Cutcliff. CDC saved his tail after the 2005 season by agreeing to come back. We saw what happened when he left both times. Throw in Fulmer's inability to hire coaches and superior ability to recruit paper champions like Jerod Askew, Jarvis Giles and pretty much the entire 2007 recruiting class and that is why we would have been in about the same boat as we were when Dooley was hired.

But say that Fulmer would have taken the 2009 team and won 6 games is ludicrous.

Fulmer was great at the right time in the 90's. Other teams sought to improve while CPF was content with barely getting by and making sure his close friends were in coaching positions and it cost him his job.
 
#258
#258
UT IE 95 said:
I'm clearly on record as posted on Volnation after I returned from LA that Labor Day weekend that Fulmer was done. Losing to UCLA was the last straw. Losing to a worse UCLA team at home the following year was atrocious.




We'll just disagree on that. Kiffin did not improve the team or any aspect of the team during or after his brief tenure here. Dooley inherited a disaster that was all Kiffin's doing. Dooley had to teach the team how to properly shower for crying out loud.
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The thing that is so frustrating about Kiffin is that he has all the tools to be a great coach but he just can't not be a douche. He relates really well to players and it was obvious that they played hard and completely bought into what he was selling here in 2009.

I'm glad he's gone and never coming back though.
 
#259
#259
UT IE 95 said:
We'll just disagree on that. Kiffin did not improve the team or any aspect of the team during or after his brief tenure here. Dooley inherited a disaster that was all Kiffin's doing. Dooley had to teach the team how to properly shower for crying out loud.
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We just got lucky in that Alabama game...and the Georgia game too. Crompton improving was a natural progression, nothing more. Dan Williams was a first-round pick when Kiffin got here; we were lucky he didn't leave early after 2008. Who needs Bray and Janzen and JaWuan James? Justin Hunter is a huge downgrade from guys like Chris Hannon.
 
#260
#260
UT IE 95 said:
I'm clearly on record as posted on Volnation after I returned from LA that Labor Day weekend that Fulmer was done. Losing to UCLA was the last straw.
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I do remember that.
Losing to a worse UCLA team at home the following year was atrocious.
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2008 Bruins: 4-8
2009 Bruins: 7-6

Per wikipedia, so it could be wrong.


We'll just disagree on that. Kiffin did not improve the team or any aspect of the team during or after his brief tenure here.
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You think the team would be better off without all the talent Kiffin brought in/helped bring in? This team would be unspeakably awful at this point without those players.
 
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#261
#261
Why is this fanbase so sensitive to coaches like Pearl and Fulmer? It is over. They both had a good stretches... but in the end both wore out their welcome. Let it be.
 
#262
#262
tvolsfan said:
You think the team would be better off without all the talent Kiffin bought in/helped bring in? This team would be unspeakably awful at this point without those players.
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There are only so many spots for elite talent. Tennessee is a brand that will draw talent regardless of the coach. It all comes down to evaluation and frankly, luck of the draw. Kiffin caused more problems than he fixed and didn't really elevate the talent level. He had more strikeouts than homeruns.
 
#263
#263
UT IE 95 said:
There are only so many spots for elite talent. Tennessee is a brand that will draw talent regardless of the coach. It all comes down to evaluation and frankly, luck of the draw. Kiffin caused more problems than he fixed and didn't really elevate the talent level. He had more strikeouts than homeruns.
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Whatever. If you really think we would be better off with Tajh Boyd and a team with horrible offensive lines and busts throughout the lineup, feel free to keep believing it.
 
#266
#266
UT IE 95 said:
There are only so many spots for elite talent. Tennessee is a brand that will draw talent regardless of the coach. It all comes down to evaluation and frankly, luck of the draw. Kiffin caused more problems than he fixed and didn't really elevate the talent level. He had more strikeouts than homeruns.
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An area in which Kiffin and Fulmer are pretty much complete opposites.
 
#269
#269
UT IE 95 said:
Who cares about his arrival or departure? I'm pissed about what went down in the 12 months between. He represented UT with his dufus dullard mental capacity in the media. He rekindled thug-u and clearly authorized crossing the line in recruiting. After the cupcake opener he had his first home test of the season and got out coached by Rick Neuheisel of all people.

The only good part of Kiffin's employment in Knoxville was the departure. Otherwise, he took a team spiraling out of control and drove it in the ground.
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You've got it. Our football team was regarded as a choir of 85 angels prior to Kiffin.
 
#271
#271
VKAman said:
An area in which Kiffin and Fulmer are pretty much complete opposites.
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How are Kiffin and Fulmer complete opposites in talent evaluation? Seems they are about the same to me considering all the flame out classes that Fulmer had his last few years and Kiffins terrible terrible one class he brought in.
 
#272
#272
Bigun said:
How are Kiffin and Fulmer complete opposites in talent evaluation? Seems they are about the same to me considering all the flame out classes that Fulmer had his last few years and Kiffins terrible terrible one class he brought in.
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Fulmer enjoyed the "look at Rivals" approach which would have brought us stars like Aubrey Phillips, Jarvis Giles and Boyd. Orgeron, Kiffin, and Dooley actually go out and find unheralded guys that then rise in the rankings AFTER they commit. There are exceptions, but Aubrey Phillips vs. Zach Fulton is a nice snapshot of what I'm saying.
 
#273
#273
SGMVols said:
Because every place he has coached was a train wreck before he arrived.
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explain please how 3 recruiting classes ranked #2, #8, and #4 (actually we should probably include 05 and possibly 06, which were #1 and #1) leaves kiffy a "train wreck" at SC?

if he can't win the PAC10C with that kind of talent he sure as hell could not have won the SECC.
 
#274
#274
utgibbs said:
Boss, boss! De plane! De plane!

Keep the fantasies coming.
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The only fantasies here are being spewed by you. Give it up. CPF ran UT football into the ground. Mike Hamilton did not lose the Wyoming game. Kiffin took the same team Fulmer had, and won more games. Deal with it.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#275
#275
utgibbs said:
By clarify, of course you mean, repeat a nonsense so many times those without sense will mistake it for reality.

Those with sense will always know the real world outside the back door vs the fantasy that Kiffin's arrival not only presaged the nature of his departure, but without said departure we would be in even worse shape than we are now!

Unfortunately (for you and your delusions), we would be in better shape right now with Fulmer still here. That is simply reality.

Dooley's metrics for success, in my eyes, are lower than your own. He will really have to get after it to reach the Fulmer Standard let alone surpass it. I wish him all the luck to achieve it.

Go Vols!
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I will have to give you some credit. Every time I think your ignorant blather has reached the pinnacle of silliness, you set a new standard. Kudos for surpassing expectations.

Assuming that you aren't actually some kind of troll getting jollies from posting the most farfetched nonsense imaginable in order to get reactions, I do think you should probably ask yourself why you continually defend a coach who had 2 losing seasons in 4 years, who was continually losing to his main rivals, who was a decade removed from winning anything of note.

I simply cannot understand why anyone would go to the absurd lengths that you do trying to explain why the coach who was fired after doing the above things should not have been two coaches subsequent to his termination.
 
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