Charlottesville white nationalists riots

#2,026
#2,026
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Groups like the white supremacists, white nationalist, and nazis thrive on confrontation. The same with the antifa and the blm folks. Both are most effective if they have the opposition group there to raise hell and protest them. All of these groups should be ignored. Had that happened with the white supremacist protest Saturday, they would've said their piece (which is their right in America, same with antifa and blm groups) and nothing would've happened.

The media coverage of this is simply building a powder keg that is being primed for detonation. This has the potential to be very bad for the future of this country.

Most of all, turn off the damn tv people.
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Wise words.
 
#2,029
#2,029
Septic said:
Fake news to call him a grand wizard, but then it's not as outrageous I suppose.

Rip his name from the buildings, burn them down!
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I mistakenly called him that - but he was in a leadership position, was a recruiter and expressed his sympathies to the Klan well after he "denounced" his participation.

I'm joking when I say his name should be removed but it is hypocritical to selectively exclude people from the "tear it down" tirade just because they joined your team eventually.
 
#2,030
#2,030
carlos86 said:
The Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans raised statues to honor and celebrate their best. Their best scholars, best generals, and best leaders. Do you know what the Romans did to the statues of Emperaers especially the ones like Caligula, Commodus, Nero and Domitian who failed them and committed atrocities??? They erased them from history. It was called Damnatio memoriae or "condemnation of memory," meaning that a person must not be remembered or celebrated. They tore their statues down and erased their names from public record because they were not to be celebrated but to be ashamed of. Monuments aren't historical.
Monuments are celebratory. And 150 years later the South is still determined to celebrate its lost cause. A Rebellion that they started not because of states rights which was never mentioned in any of their secession declarations but because of Slavery. For too long Southerners have attempted to hide the experience and motivation for the Confederates to secede from the Union. They are inseparable. Armies of Rebels and traitors who broke their oaths to their country and broke faith with the Union don't get nor do they deserve monuments to their defeat. Only the victors do. And lets not forget the sole reason that these statues were erected in the first place during the 1920s -1960s. To remind African Americans living through Jim Crow and Segregation of who was still in charge and slavery or not they would still find ways to oppress them.
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Have you ever thought of the parallel between the Revolution and the Civil War? That both were fought by people who opposed legitimate rule? Have you ever read this quote?

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

The author was Abraham Lincoln. He was, of course, talking about what is now Texas and Mexico at the time - a conflict in which many southern and northern generals fought side by side. History doesn't alter the achievements of participants, but opinions do, and it's primarily based on who won or lost.

Whether you want or choose to believe it, southern generals like Lee were no less patriots than Washington - and probably far better men than Grant, but they were anti federalists. There was an ongoing struggle between federalists and those who believed in primary governance by the individual states from the time of secession/revolution with Britain.

The shame of it all is that we didn't learn much from that struggle. We are still forcing federalism - trying to make 300+ million people see everything one way rather than letting states tailor even mundane issues to more regional wishes. You realize that what fits in NY or NJ isn't going to work well in Montana or New Mexico because conditions are radically different - population density for starters.

People in DC are still stubbornly hammering squares into round holes and fracturing the edges. Does that mean we revert to policies of the past? No, things do change with time; policies of the past may have been acceptable to people at the time, and in a hundred years it's likely that some of today's accepted practices will be viewed as absurd, immoral, barbaric, ...
 
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#2,033
#2,033
volinbham said:
I mistakenly called him that - but he was in a leadership position, was a recruiter and expressed his sympathies to the Klan well after he "denounced" his participation.

I'm joking when I say his name should be removed but it is hypocritical to selectively exclude people from the "tear it down" tirade just because they joined your team eventually.
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Liberals, when confronted with the fact that Byrd was a lifelong Democrat, are very quick to say "but he repudiated everything!"

Fair enough, but if Byrd had an R after his name instead of a D, would liberals buy the same "but he repudiated everything!" line from Republicans? Accusations of lingering racism would have marked his entire career if he were a Republican. Which is ironic considering that the Democrats were the party of the Klan. You went nowhere in many Democratic circles if you weren't a Klansman during its heyday, either overtly or covertly.
 
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#2,034
#2,034
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Groups like the white supremacists, white nationalist, and nazis thrive on confrontation. The same with the antifa and the blm folks. Both are most effective if they have the opposition group there to raise hell and protest them. All of these groups should be ignored. Had that happened with the white supremacist protest Saturday, they would've said their piece (which is their right in America, same with antifa and blm groups) and nothing would've happened.

The media coverage of this is simply building a powder keg that is being primed for detonation. This has the potential to be very bad for the future of this country.

Most of all, turn off the damn tv people.
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LG gonna be mad about this - gonna post more Nazi pictures from the 30s
 
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#2,035
#2,035
05_never_again said:
They'll never stop.

Once the get anything with an obvious Confederate association removed, they'll come after more difficult targets.

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and many other Founding Fathers were slaveholders. Abraham Lincoln had a very blase attitude towards slavery; he waged the Civil War to preserve the Union and not necessarily to abolish slavery. Woodrow Wilson was a virulent racist but is viewed as a progressive icon.

Do we remove anything that depicts them or remove their names from anything? Implode the Jefferson Memorial and Washington Monument? After all, they are celebrations of slaveholders who thought black people are subhuman.
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"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
 
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#2,037
#2,037
volinbham said:
LG gonna be mad about this - gonna post more Nazi pictures from the 30s
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BLM would exist without the nazis and the white supremacists due to the whole law enforcement excessive force issue. And that ebbs and flows and in time will fade. But the rest of the left leaning groups would wither away for lack of need if the alt right wasn't instigating things like Charlottesville.
 
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#2,041
#2,041
lawgator1 said:
BLM would exist without the nazis and the white supremacists due to the whole law enforcement excessive force issue. And that ebbs and flows and in time will fade. But the rest of the left leaning groups would wither away for lack of need if the alt right wasn't instigating things like Charlottesville.
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Do you have any brain cells left?
 
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#2,042
#2,042
lawgator1 said:
BLM would exist without the nazis and the white supremacists due to the whole law enforcement excessive force issue. And that ebbs and flows and in time will fade. But the rest of the left leaning groups would wither away for lack of need if the alt right wasn't instigating things like Charlottesville.
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what's it like in that weird, little world you live in?
 
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#2,044
#2,044
lawgator1 said:
BLM would exist without the nazis and the white supremacists due to the whole law enforcement excessive force issue. And that ebbs and flows and in time will fade. But the rest of the left leaning groups would wither away for lack of need if the alt right wasn't instigating things like Charlottesville.
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Bull. BLM and Antifa would exist no matter what boogeyman was out there. Those are paid operation groups funded by George Soros much in the same way Occupy Wallstreet was. They just need scapegoats so they can justify to idiots the reasons for their terrorist behaviors.
 
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#2,045
#2,045
lawgator1 said:
BLM would exist without the nazis and the white supremacists due to the whole law enforcement excessive force issue. And that ebbs and flows and in time will fade. But the rest of the left leaning groups would wither away for lack of need if the alt right wasn't instigating things like Charlottesville.
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Antifa wouldn't exist in the USA if it weren't for neo-nazis and the klan? What does the kkk have to do with shutting down speeches simply because you don't agree with someone's worldview?
 
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#2,046
#2,046
I thought this was funny:

********************

Stephen Colbert @StephenAtHome - 16h

"I don't agree with the Nazis, but they had a permit for Normandy & the Allies didn't." - Donald Trump

********************

That was a bizarre distinction to make by Trump given the circumstances of Saturday... almost as bizarre as conflating two of our founding fathers with a Confederate General. Washington and Jefferson were flawed men but they also fought to build our nation while Lee fought to divide it. Only a person with an agenda akin to Trump would fail to acknowledge that significant distinction.

I would also add that the company a person keeps says much about themselves which is why Trump's rationalization that some of the protesters in Charlottesville were actually good people who were quietly and peacefully protesting and just wanted to object to the taking down of the Lee statue rings false. "Good people" don't march next to Neo-Nazis, the KKK and white supremacists who are chanting "Jews won't replace us!" and Nazi slogans.
 
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#2,049
#2,049
SergeantVol said:
Funny enough is that this is what the left is thinking that the right wants to do. The left thinks that their brand is different and that they will be benevolent dictators. Their choices that they force others into are for the "good" of the people. They don't see the fallacy in stripping individual liberties. In the end, they are just as bad as their authoritarian predecessors, regardless of ideology.
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The ultimate in liberal thinking was the worker's paradise known as the Soviet Union. Hard to see their benevolent leadership as any different than fascists if you remove the rhetoric over political doctrine.
 
#2,050
#2,050
BowlBrother85 said:
I thought this was funny:

********************

Stephen Colbert @StephenAtHome - 16h

"I don't agree with the Nazis, but they had a permit for Normandy & the Allies didn't." - Donald Trump

********************

That was a bizarre distinction to make by Trump given the circumstances of Saturday... almost as bizarre as conflating two of our founding fathers with a Confederate General. Washington and Jefferson were flawed men but they also fought to build our nation while Lee fought to divide it. Only a person with an agenda akin to Trump would fail to acknowledge that significant distinction.

I would also add that the company a person keeps says much about themselves which is why Trump's rationalization that some of the protesters in Charlottesville were actually good people who were quietly and peacefully protesting and just wanted to object to the taking down of the Lee statue rings false. "Good people" don't march next to Neo-Nazis, the KKK and white supremacists who are chanting "Jews won't replace us!" and Nazi slogans.
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Let's apply the same logic to any Antifa or Anarchist rally where a minority gets violent and riot/loot the area.

Look at Berkley recently - is it possible that people were there to protest the speaker but didn't support the idea of violence, rioting and physically obstructing people from entering a building? (Hint: the answer is yes). Should they all be labeled as the same as the few violent nutjobs that had an entirely different agenda?

Take any G8 meeting - are any protestors against capitalism to be lumped in with the Anarchists - afterall, they're right there with them while the Anarchists promote their agenda of chaos and destruction.
 
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