Calm down guys

[Marietta_Volunteer]

That's my point. Despite all that, they still landed Harbaugh and became a contender almost immediately

This is not even close to an apples-apples comparison. First, what UT alumni is an established winning coach that also coached in the NFL? I don't think we have a big pool in which to choose from and hope a past player can come back and save us (don't say Manning). Second, they are in the BIG10 (er, 12 or whatever) where there is only 1 other team (OSU) with similar tradition and talent. There is very little competition for recruits up in that area of the country. We have heated battles with at least 5 top-tier, tradition rich schools for the recruits we are after.

 

[KBVol]

I am paying attention, they were in 6th that is still 2 places out not even close in this system.

The fact is Michigan hasn't won anything under Harbaugh!!!

No you're not. Not even close? You're being disingenuous. Recall that Ohio State and Michigan essentially played for the right to be one of the teams in the 4 team playoff on the last weekend of the season.....they lost by 3 points in double OT because of a bad spot on the 4th down that went Ohio State's way. Otherwise, it's Michigan in the playoff not Ohio State......how much closer and in contention could they get? Literally one play away from playing Clemson in round 1 of the playoffs.

 

[volfannbama]

No you're not. Not even close? You're being disingenuous. Recall that Ohio State and Michigan essentially played for the right to be one of the teams in the 4 team playoff on the last weekend of the season.....they lost by 3 points in double OT because of a bad spot on the 4th down that went Ohio State's way. Otherwise, it's Michigan in the playoff not Ohio State......how much closer and in contention could they get? Literally one play away from playing Clemson in round 1 of the playoffs.

So what you are saying is playing Ohio St for a potential playoff spot and losing in OT isnt the same as losing to Vandy?

 

[NashVol11]

This is not even close to an apples-apples comparison. First, what UT alumni is an established winning coach that also coached in the NFL? I don't think we have a big pool in which to choose from and hope a past player can come back and save us (don't say Manning). Second, they are in the BIG10 (er, 12 or whatever) where there is only 1 other team (OSU) with similar tradition and talent. There is very little competition for recruits up in that area of the country. We have heated battles with at least 5 schools for the recruits we are after.

You're reaching. If a prolonged decline means "something systemic" is wrong that 3-4 years won't fix, you think Harbaugh is risking his career on that just because he went to school there?

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

No you're not. Not even close? You're being disingenuous. Recall that Ohio State and Michigan essentially played for the right to be one of the teams in the 4 team playoff on the last weekend of the season.....they lost by 3 points in double OT because of a bad spot on the 4th down that went Ohio State's way. Otherwise, it's Michigan in the playoff not Ohio State......how much closer and in contention could they get? Literally one play away from playing Clemson in round 1 of the playoffs.

I really feel like you're skimming over the fact that the Vols were only 65 points from being undefeated this season. Throw in that the Vols already has a Battle of Bristol Championship to go along with a Schools We Played and Beat with Tennessee in Their Names Championship this season and it's a no brainer that anything Harbaugh has done is less relevant than Jones

 

[KBVol]

So what you are saying is playing Ohio St for a potential playoff spot and losing in OT isnt the same as losing to Vandy?

I don't know what you mean. The fact is that Tennessee was in contention to win the East until Jones lost to SCar.....and was Michigan was indeed in contention to be one of the playoff teams before losing to Ohio State. Those two points can't be legitimately argued otherwise. For some reason, some are trying to argue what "in contention" means.

 

[Marietta_Volunteer]

You're reaching. If a prolonged decline means "something systemic" is wrong that 3-4 years won't fix, you think Harbaugh is risking his career on that just because he went to school there?

If you look back, Harbaugh spurned Michigan by staying at Stanford and then going to the 49ers. In that time, Michigan had Rich Rod and Hoke as coaches and didn't win anything. Harbaugh went there for three very good reasons: 1) he got run out of SF; 2) just like Urban, he realized that all he had to do is compete with 1 other school for success; and 3) he is a beloved alum tha knew he would be welcomed with open arms. Now, Harbaugh is a very good coach which definitely is another reason why they have had success in recruiting and winning.

The thing that ties to my statement of "can't be done in 3-4 years" at Tennessee is that we don't have those 3 reasons to offer up to an excellent head coach and we weren't going to get a name coach (Gruden, Dungy, Shanahan, Cowher, etc.). Without that you have to build, over time, a program with a good foundation and culture.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

I don't know what you mean. The fact is that Tennessee was in contention to win the East until Jones lost to SCar.....and was Michigan was indeed in contention to be one of the playoff teams before losing to Ohio State. Those two points can't be legitimately argued otherwise. For some reason, some are trying to argue what "in contention" means.

I think he was being facetious like I am with my previous post.

 

[volfannbama]

I don't know what you mean. The fact is that Tennessee was in contention to win the East until Jones lost to SCar.....and was Michigan was indeed in contention to be one of the playoff teams before losing to Ohio State. Those two points can't be legitimately argued otherwise. For some reason, some are trying to argue what "in contention" means.

I mean that Michigan was still in contention to play for the CFP. The previous arguments seem to be hinting that Harbaugh hasnt done anything, despite completely flipping that team in two years and actually being in contention for the CFP the last week of the season. Any comparison of that and what CBJ has done here is laughable.

But then again there were fans on here talking about.is going to the playoff after we lost to USC.

 

[BeecherVol]

If you look back, Harbaugh spurned Michigan by staying at Stanford and then going to the 49ers. In that time, Michigan had Rich Rod and Hoke as coaches and didn't win anything. Harbaugh went there for three very good reasons: 1) he got run out of SF; 2) just like Urban, he realized that all he had to do is compete with 1 other school for success; and 3) he is a beloved alum tha knew he would be welcomed with open arms. Now, Harbaugh is a very good coach which definitely is another reason why they have had success in recruiting and winning.

The thing that ties to my statement of "can't be done in 3-4 years" at Tennessee is that we don't have those 3 reasons to offer up to an excellent head coach and we weren't going to get a name coach (Gruden, Dungy, Shanahan, Cowher, etc.). Without that you have to build, over time, a program with a good foundation and culture.

1) That would hold a little more weight if Michigan was the only option he had leaving SF. IMO

2) He jumped into the same division with an established NC winning coach, that happens to also coach his biggest rival.

3) Thats true but it also has a double edge. If he isn't able to surpass Meyer (more often than not) his Michigan legacy will take a hit because he is "home". Similar to those talking about Manning coming here to coach (in some capacity) he has a legacy here not really surpassed by anyone else. The only way that can get tarnished is if he was to fail as a coach and thats the last memory fans have of him.

 

[Marietta_Volunteer]

1) That would hold a little more weight if Michigan was the only option he had leaving SF. IMO

2) He jumped into the same division with an established NC winning coach, that happens to also coach his biggest rival.

3) Thats true but it also has a double edge. If he isn't able to surpass Meyer (more often than not) his Michigan legacy will take a hit because he is "home". Similar to those talking about Manning coming here to coach (in some capacity) he has a legacy here not really surpassed by anyone else. The only way that can get tarnished is if he was to fail as a coach and thats the last memory fans have of him.

1) Taken in a vacuum yes, but taking into account #2 and #3 then I don't think he takes any other offer unless it is NFL (don't think he had one, but could be wrong).
2) True, but is is just 1 coach and team. A lot easier than the SEC where you have had 1-3 at any given time and even 3 other teams that could win it in a given year.
3) This is true and is definitely a risk. However, I believe Harbaugh has established he has a bit of an ego so I don't think he felt it was that big of a risk. He believes he will win big and the UM-OSU matchups will be epic as long as he and Meyer remain. Winning his share will be key, but either way I don't see them running him out of there.

 

[BeecherVol]

1) Taken in a vacuum yes, but taking into account #2 and #3 then I don't think he takes any other offer unless it is NFL (don't think he had one, but could be wrong).
2) True, but is is just 1 coach and team. A lot easier than the SEC where you have had 1-3 at any given time and even 3 other teams that could win it in a given year.
3) This is true and is definitely a risk. However, I believe Harbaugh has established he has a bit of an ego so I don't think he felt it was that big of a risk. He believes he will win big and the UM-OSU matchups will be epic as long as he and Meyer remain. Winning his share will be key, but either way I don't see them running him out of there.

Given the current climate of the SEC it's essentially the difference between beating Saban or Meyer. It would depend on which division he got in.

He would wax the eastern division at any of the top 3 schools.

 

[johnrlansford]

By this line of reasoning, Jones is even more irrelevant then considering he has never coached in one of the New Year's Six games.

Never said anything about Butch, just about Harbaugh. Why are you changing the subject?

 

[johnrlansford]

So you got a 10-2 team who finished as the number 6 ranked team in the country, because they got screwed on a bad spot which would've effectively sealed the win for them and put them into the playoffs, rather than Ohio State who got in because they won that game vs Michigan, as "irrelevant"??

Why don't you stick to predicting which brand Tennessee recruits/players are gonna transfer.....remember, the criteria is they have to have been on campus for 10 minutes or more and they can't have played a single snap of even Spring ball.....ready.......go!

Harbaugh has done nothing of relevance at Michigan to be considered a slam dunk hire.....Nothing!!! He hasn't won his division...He hasn't won the Big10...he hasn't won the playoff.

Don't get upset he may be a very good coach in the long run just hasn't proven it yet in the small sample size.

Does he show signs? yes, but he is hardly proven anything yet...

 

[BeecherVol]

Never said anything about Butch, just about Harbaugh. Why are you changing the subject?

True. He doesn't fit in that puzzle.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Never said anything about Butch, just about Harbaugh. Why are you changing the subject?

May have something to do with being on a site called Vol Nation in a thread about "calming down" about Jones.

There are some really good pharmaceuticals out there the kids are using nowadays to help with focus. Perhaps you should look into some LOL

 

[KBVol]

I mean that Michigan was still in contention to play for the CFP. The previous arguments seem to be hinting that Harbaugh hasnt done anything, despite completely flipping that team in two years and actually being in contention for the CFP the last week of the season. Any comparison of that and what CBJ has done here is laughable.

But then again there were fans on here talking about.is going to the playoff after we lost to USC.

Gotcha.

 

[Brasszilla]

May have something to do with being on a site called Vol Nation in a thread about "calming down" about Jones.

There are some really good pharmaceuticals out there the kids are using nowadays to help with focus. Perhaps you should look into some LOL

yes but conversations can veer into non-vol topics too, even on volnation. you know.... you should probably slow down with those focus pharmaceuticals .... they are actually lab grade meth lol :no:

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

yes but conversations can veer into non-vol topics too, even on volnation. you know.... you should probably slow down with those focus pharmaceuticals .... they are actually lab grade meth lol :no:

Definitely sounds like your area of expertise so I will take your word for it.

 

[KBVol]

Harbaugh has done nothing of relevance at Michigan to be considered a slam dunk hire.....Nothing!!! He hasn't won his division...He hasn't won the Big10...he hasn't won the playoff.

Don't get upset he may be a very good coach in the long run just hasn't proven it yet in the small sample size.

Does he show signs? yes, but he is hardly proven anything yet...

Please tell me you're kidding. He takes over one of the winningest programs in college football history, a program that was badly broken, in a bad case of disrepair, that was 12-13 the two previous seasons.....and immediately goes 20-5 (he'd be 22-3 if his punter hadn't dropped a snap vs MSU and if the refs had spotted the ball correctly vs OSU) and is inches away from being in the final 4 playoff in year two....and you don't think he's a "slam dunk hire" at Michigan?? That's a completely irrational take John.

 

[jakez4ut]

harbaugh can coach. SDSU, Stanford and 49er's kind of alluded to that already.

 

[johnrlansford]

Please tell me you're kidding. He takes over one of the winningest programs in college football history, a program that was badly broken, in a bad case of disrepair, that was 12-13 the two previous seasons.....and immediately goes 20-5 (he'd be 22-3 if his punter hadn't dropped a snap vs MSU and if the refs had spotted the ball correctly vs OSU) and is inches away from being in the final 4 playoff in year two....and you don't think he's a "slam dunk hire" at Michigan?? That's a completely irrational take John.

Has it shown up in any area other than in what could have been? No there have been no concrete results out side of the record change. What have they done? They have failed to beat OSU 2 years in a row...haven't won there division...haven't won the Big 10....I am confused as to what he has done that is so great?

Butch Jones won more games than Dooley....ha hasn't won the SEC east....He hasn't won the SEC championship...Has he done something special as well? Is he a slam dunk Hire? your logic is irrational!!!

The best teams he has beat in 2 years are Penn State x2, Wisconsin x1, and Florida x1, with Losses to Iowa, Utah, Michigam St. and OSU x2? Is that really that big of a feat?

 

[jakez4ut]

Has it shown up in any area other than in what could have been? No there have been no concrete results out side of the record change. What have they done? They have failed to beat OSU 2 years in a row...haven't won there division...haven't won the Big 10....I am confused as to what he has done that is so great?

Butch Jones won more games than Dooley....ha hasn't won the SEC east....He hasn't won the SEC championship...Has he done something special as well? Is he a slam dunk Hire? your logic is irrational!!!

The best teams he has beat in 2 years are Penn State x2, Wisconsin x1, and Florida x1, with Losses to Iowa, Utah, Michigam St. and OSU x2? Is that really that big of a feat?

he won the pac 12 and went to rose bowls at Stanford and went to the super bowl with SF.

while i'm not here to sing the praises of all things michigan, because i think their schedule has as much to do with their success as anything, he had them to the point this year that had they won the OSU game, they'd be in the playoff. that's the definition of contending. and it's not like they got their doors blown off against OSU. beating Wiscy and PSU are quality wins, esp this year.

and it's not irrational to say that Harbaugh has done more with Michigan in two years, than what Jones has done at TN in 4. and i doubt very seriously you'd find anyone outside big orange country that would say differently.

perception being what it is, Harbaugh has that all day on Jones. not saying i like it. but inherently, Harbaugh brings a lot more to the table, resume wise, than Jones, and he has Michigan nationally relevant, right now.

jones is .500 against Vandy, 0 fer against Muschamp, 1-3 against FL, 0 fer against Bama, and 2-2 against GA.

Jones had opportunities this year and last to put himself in these kinds of conversations, and has failed each time the opportunity presented, save 2. hell, forget Harbaugh, look what Franklin has done for PSU in 2 years. conf title and rose bowl in year 2.

this incessant need to defend all things butch jones at the expense of any objective view point is just sad.

 

[Iam4utalways]

Dude, you asked "in contention for what?".....the answer is they were one game (actually, one bad spot from the ref) away from the final 4 playoff. Stay focused buddy.

Sour grapes got the best of me. For the record, please defend the Vols from insults with the same passion you do for about any other team that slighted. It's good for you.

Go Vols!

 

[KBVol]

Has it shown up in any area other than in what could have been? No there have been no concrete results out side of the record change. What have they done? They have failed to beat OSU 2 years in a row...haven't won there division...haven't won the Big 10....I am confused as to what he has done that is so great?

Butch Jones won more games than Dooley....ha hasn't won the SEC east....He hasn't won the SEC championship...Has he done something special as well? Is he a slam dunk Hire? your logic is irrational!!!

The best teams he has beat in 2 years are Penn State x2, Wisconsin x1, and Florida x1, with Losses to Iowa, Utah, Michigam St. and OSU x2? Is that really that big of a feat?

You're surely trolling right now. So if a team wildly improves and does a 180 in short order and it's clearly because of a change in leadership/head coach and staff, but that same team doesn't win a title, then it was all for naught and nothing was accomplished? Nothing was gained? Okay, then 99% of all head coach hires are busts, are no good. Only Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Gene Chizik, Jimbo Fisher and Les Miles were homerun hires the last decade, no? Nobody else did squat.

Just for giggles, let's compare the first 2 seasons of Jones and Harbaugh. You're not gonna get it/agree but I'll put it out here anyway.

Jones took over a bad program and improved the record in 2 seasons from 10-14 to 12-13....yippeee, he really crushed it....had historically bad losses by 45, 35 and 32 points in year one....lost to Vandy, struggled to beat South Alabama and Kentucky, completely irrelevant. Laughingstock across the board, not expected to win anything, couldn't sniff a top 25 ranking pre or post season.

Harbaugh took over a bad program and improved the record in his first 2 seasons from 12-13 the last 2 Brady Hoke years to 20-5 his first two seasons. Relevant both years, finished 10-3 and #12 in year one, standing at 10-2 #6 right now, including narrowing missing the Final 4 playoff this year at #6 in the country, 2 spots away.

Wonder how many Michigan fans think Harbaugh was a "homerun hire"?? 90 or 95% of them? Wonder how many Vol fans believe Jones is a "homerun hire"? 9.0 or 9.5% of them.