Butch says our D-line has "always" lined up a yard back. Is immediately proven wrong

#251
#251
Only other thing I can think of is he saw how it worked against us in the App State game and thought it would help us out.

That's sad if that's the case.
 
#252
#252
volfannbama said:
W was commander in Chief during wartime and people criticized him. So to your analogy, he is the Heaf coach, assitance are the generals and players are the troops. All the same.

What i find funny about conversations like this are that organizations take the form of their leader. In this instance, CBJ might be one of the most thinned skinned coaches around and many of our fans follow suit.
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The fans of UT have been thin skinned long before butch showed up.
 
#254
#254
VFL-82-JP said:
Heh, man, it'll just be another credential to put on our gravestones one day, I guess. :)
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haters-gonna-hate-comb.gif
 
#256
#256
Weezer said:
Loyalty is earned. It's not given freely to someone paid millions a year to coach a team. Only sheep follow blindly. When/if the big wins come, then Butch will have earned the loyalty of the fans.

But even then, loyalty doesn't protect you from criticism. When a coach under performs, questions need to be asked. Otherwise, you let loyalty lead to the downfall of the program.
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That's actually wrong, Weezer. Loyalty can't be earned. It can only be given.

And giving your loyalty to another person, or a group of people, like a football team, is a conscious decision of values.

Folks confuse gratitude for loyalty all the time. Someone does something for me, I feel gratitude to them, even feel like I owe a debt to them. But that feeling is surprisingly fickle. It can disappear in a heartbeat, and often does when things get tough.

No, real loyalty is a conscious choice, backed by willpower. It's a "through sickness and health, till death do us part" kind of decision (which many of us tend to not really mean these days, judging by the number of divorces). It's a "my life before yours" kind of decision.

For some people, loyalty seems easy. They're natural team mates. They decide they're on your side, and never, ever seem to waver in that decision.

But for many of us, it doesn't come easy at all. It's a real commitment, a life-altering decision (yes, even about something as relatively unimportant as football).

The ability to exercise loyalty is a gift a lot of us have never experienced and may never truly exercise. Not even with family, parents or siblings or spouses.

It's no surprise that it is an uncommon commodity among fans these days.

~ ~ ~​

I'm loyal to my team. As long as he's our coach, I have his back. As long as they're our players, I have their backs.

That's a commitment. That's loyalty.
 
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#257
#257
VFL-82-JP said:
That's actually wrong, Weezer. Loyalty can't be earned. It can only be given.

And giving your loyalty to another person, or a group of people, like a football team, is a conscious decision of values.

Folks confuse gratitude for loyalty all the time. Someone does something for me, I feel gratitude to them, even feel like I owe a debt to them. But that feeling is surprisingly fickle. It can disappear in a heartbeat, and often does when things get tough.

No, real loyalty is a conscious choice, backed by willpower. It's a "through sickness and health, till death do us part" kind of decision (which many of us tend to not really mean these days, judging by the number of divorces). It's a "my life before yours" kind of decision.

For some people, loyalty seems easy. They're natural team mates. They decide they're on your side, and never, ever seem to waver in that decision.

But for many of us, it doesn't come easy at all. It's a real commitment, a life-altering decision (yes, even about something as relatively unimportant as football).

The ability to exercise loyalty is a gift a lot of us have never experienced and may never truly exercise. Not even with family, parents or siblings or spouses.

It's no surprise that it is an uncommon commodity among fans these days.

~ ~ ~​

I'm loyal to my team. As long as he's our coach, I have his back. As long as they're our players, I have their backs.

That's a commitment. That's loyalty.
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So disloyalty to a profit making college football team that mistreats its fanbase makes you a bad person? And unfaltering loyalty is a sign of character? Gottcha man.
 
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#258
#258
This argument will go nowhere when one person insists on defining a word on their own terms.

Agree to disagree.
 
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#259
#259
November Blue said:
So disloyalty to a profit making college football team that mistreats its fanbase makes you a bad person? And unfaltering loyalty is a sign of character? Gottcha man.
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Loyalty isn't automatically good. Being loyal to an evil person (Hitler) or an evil cause (the KKK) is not a virtue. It's not automatically always right.

Loyalty is a value. As with many values, it can cut either way, depending on how it is applied. 'Value' and 'virtue' are not synonyms.

But yes, in my opinion, when applied with good judgment to things like nation ... family ... favorite team ... your unit, if you're military or a firefighter or the like ... yes, generally speaking, loyalty is both a value and a virtue in those cases.

As for your statement specifically: "...a profit making college football team that mistreats its fanbase...." If you truly feel that way, why are you here at all? Why do you continue to call yourself a Tennessee fan? Or...do you?
 
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#260
#260
VFL-82-JP said:
Loyalty isn't automatically good. Being loyal to an evil person (Hitler) or an evil cause (the KKK) is not a virtue. It's not automatically always right.

Loyalty is a value. As with many values, it can cut either way, depending on how it is applied. 'Value' and 'virtue' are not synonyms.

But yes, in my opinion, when applied with good judgment to things like nation ... family ... favorite team ... your unit, if you're military or a firefighter or the like ... yes, generally speaking, loyalty is both a value and a virtue in those cases.

As for your statement specifically: "...a profit making college football team that mistreats its fanbase...." If you truly feel that way, why are you here at all? Why do you continue to call yourself a Tennessee fan? Or...do you?
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Old habits die hard.
 
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#263
#263
Orange_Crush said:
Specifically how do the UT Vols mistreat their fanbase?
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By taking years of goodwill, buy-in, financial support and, yes, loyalty for granted and then hiring coaches that are not proportionate in caliber to the program's storied history, the fanbase's enthusiasm, fanbase's size, and fanbase's will to win. By selling out the legacies of Neyland, Majors, Fulmer, Manning, and Wilson to shams like Butch and Dooley.
 
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#264
#264
November Blue said:
By taking years of goodwill, buy-in, financial support and, yes, loyalty for granted and then hiring coaches that are not proportionate in caliber to the program's storied history, the fanbase's enthusiasm, fanbase's size, and fanbase's will to win. By selling out the legacies of Neyland, Majors, Fulmer, Manning, and Wilson to shams like Butch and Dooley.
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Wow. You sure do take things personally, don't you?
 
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#266
#266
November Blue said:
I suppose. It has affected my enjoyment of Tennessee football, so yeah.

I know when a bait and switch has been executed and don't enjoy it.
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You married?

You seem like the type of guy that'd ask for a divorce when his wife gained weight. Bait and switch and all. Mistreating you by her personal choices. Etc...
 
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#267
#267
Burger said:
He thinks fans don't know Jack about football.
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Did you play football? If you played defensive line or offensive line, you would know lining up right on the line of scrimmage on defense isn't the answer to controlling the line of scrimmage. I shouldn't have to explain myself anymore than this:

That extra yard of space gives the D-Line an advantage to react to the O-Line movements, have full explosion from their stance, and room to make a move on the O-lineman in front of them. Losing that space means exactly the opposite for those three points.
 
#268
#268
Also, just another tidbit I noticed from actually clicking on the article. You can't reference how the D-line lines up based off 2 plays that are whole year apart. I'm sure if you got back and watch more of those other games you'll notice the line around a yard behind the line of scrimmage and Barnett offsides, lol.
 
#269
#269
November Blue said:
By taking years of goodwill, buy-in, financial support and, yes, loyalty for granted and then hiring coaches that are not proportionate in caliber to the program's storied history, the fanbase's enthusiasm, fanbase's size, and fanbase's will to win. By selling out the legacies of Neyland, Majors, Fulmer, Manning, and Wilson to shams like Butch and Dooley.
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Well said...
 
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#270
#270
Blazer2100 said:
Did you play football? If you played defensive line or offensive line, you would know lining up right on the line of scrimmage on defense isn't the answer to controlling the line of scrimmage. I shouldn't have to explain myself anymore than this:

That extra yard of space gives the D-Line an advantage to react to the O-Line movements, have full explosion from their stance, and room to make a move on the O-lineman in front of them. Losing that space means exactly the opposite for those three points.
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That's a bunch of garbage. You'd be giving a great advantage to anyone who runs. If you need 1-2 yards to explode out of your stance then there is a massive problem. I never lined up more than a half a yard off the ball.
 
#272
#272
'Boro-vol said:
No he doesn't. Out of line.
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How so?

Obviously I don't think he's literally a person who would divorce his wife over Twinkies. But it's an effective way to judge his criteria of "mistreatment".

Is a spouse mistreating their spouse by gaining weight? Bait and switch, etc... I'm just equally judging his definition in another context.
 
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#273
#273
Orange_Crush said:
How so?

Obviously I don't think he's literally a person who would divorce his wife over Twinkies. But it's an effective way to judge his criteria of "mistreatment".

Is she "mistreating" him by eating Twinkies, if it is a bait and switch from when he started dating her, and now it effects his enjoyment of... well, whatever.

Does he love his wife, or is she just a trophy for his ego?

Did UT mistreat us as fans by making various hiring decisions? Is he a fan of UT, or of wins? Is he a fan of UT, or the idea of attaching himself to UT's successes? i.e. Does he love UT, or does UT fulfill some unfulfilled part of his ego?

I'm just interested in the psyche that would list oneself as a "fan" of something while claiming they mistreat me.

I just closed an account with a major corporation because of how they choose to do business. I never claimed to be a fan, just a customer because of perceived benefits to myself. As soon as they were no longer a benefit, I closed out and went elsewhere.

I definitely didn't wear "Corporation-X" t-shirts and ballcaps. I didn't log into their website, cheer, boo, gripe, complain. I just cut bait and ended the relationship.

So, I'm trying to piece together these psyches that claim to be fans of something while claiming that they are also mistreating them. It's a business relationship? Love? Stockholm syndrome?

You would treat your banker this way? Your wife? When is it love? Self interest? Devotion? Psychosis?

I'm just trying to understand the craziness we have on display here.
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If you can't see why bringing a man's wife into a football conversation, even hypothetically, is out of line then nothing I say will change it. We'll just have to disagree and move on. I'm sure you're sufficiently comfortable with your viewpoint to live with it.
 
#274
#274
'Boro-vol said:
If you can't see why bringing a man's wife into a football conversation, even hypothetically, is out of line then nothing I say will change it. We'll just have to disagree and move on. I'm sure you're sufficiently comfortable with your viewpoint to live with it.
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I just explicitly stated that I don't literally believe that about him, and trusted in the initial post that that would be apparent to any sane reader.

Now, with that technicality out of the way--that no one questions his theoretical spousal loyalty and love--do you want to discuss the concept of "mistreat"? Or no?
 
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#275
#275
November Blue said:
I suppose. It has affected my enjoyment of Tennessee football, so yeah.

I know when a bait and switch has been executed and don't enjoy it.
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You're a gator fan, so why do we care if TN hurt your feelings? You should have loved Dooley.

Besides, it's a game. It's college football. It's entertainment (unless you make your living from it, which I don't).
 
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